ExpertLaw.com Forums

Brake-Checked by the Chief of Police's Wife

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page
Page 1 of 2 1 2 Next LastLast
  • 08-12-2013, 02:56 PM
    thesystem
    Brake-Checked by the Chief of Police's Wife
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Pennsylvania

    Interesting story here - looking for odds advice...

    I was mailed a summary offense citation for careless driving based upon 2 witness complaintants who occupied the other car in question. Both have long ties to a neighboring borrough's police department, being police wives, one of which appears to be married to the former Chief of Police. These are not small neighborhoods and they aren't in a small town - this is Pittsburgh. Sounds like a small town kind of thing...

    The event occurred outside of the jurisdiction (next neihborhood over...) they appear to have direct influence in - thus the citing officer doesn't appear to have any direct link that I could dig up via open search methods.

    The summons was "Filed on info received". The citing officer never made any attempt to contact me prior to issuing the citation for my side of the story. A suspicious person might think it smells like chronyism...

    Citation states exactly: "Defendent operated vehicle riding the rear bumper of [complaintant] along [street] and then cutting in front of same vehicle".

    My statement would be a bit more wordy and along the lines of: "It was rush hour, traffic was moving steadily for the most part in clumps, and the vehicle in front of me [complaintant] may have felt I got too close as they brake-checked me. In response I honked at them and at the next opportunity I moved from the left lane to the right lane, at which point they swerved into that lane in front of me. At the next opportunity I moved back into the left lane to pass them and yelled "Idiot" at them whilst doing so."

    The whole thing struck me as a total non-event so I never thought to file any sort of complaint - I never would have thought the exchange would result in a citation based solely upon the complaintant and a family member in the same car.

    I'm planning to plead not guilty and retain a traffic attorney.

    2 questions while I wait to hear back from my attorneys:

    1. Is it true that summary traffic offenses put the burden of proof on the defendent like in civil cases?

    2. What do you think my odds are of having this whole mess thrown out?
  • 08-12-2013, 03:20 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Brake-Checked by the Chief of Police's Wife
    Quote:

    Quoting thesystem
    View Post
    The summons was "Filed on info received". The citing officer never made any attempt to contact me prior to issuing the citation for my side of the story. A suspicious person might think it smells like chronyism...

    The complaint alone can be sufficient to initiate the process. Whether the matter is pursued or not is another question.

    Quote:

    1. Is it true that summary traffic offenses put the burden of proof on the defendent like in civil cases?
    No. The burden should still be based upon a preponderance of the evidence. Based on what those women say in court (assuming the complaining parties are required to attend and give testimony in your state), you may or may not be found guilty of the offense.

    Quote:

    2. What do you think my odds are of having this whole mess thrown out?
    "Thrown out" ... zero percent chance. Not prosecuted or a verdict in your favor, perhaps fifty-fifty ... more or less.
  • 08-12-2013, 05:16 PM
    Disagreeable
    Re: Brake-Checked by the Chief of Police's Wife
    Chances are neither "witness" will show for court.
  • 08-13-2013, 07:03 AM
    thesystem
    Re: Brake-Checked by the Chief of Police's Wife
    Quote:

    Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    The complaint alone can be sufficient to initiate the process. Whether the matter is pursued or not is another question.


    No. The burden should still be based upon a preponderance of the evidence. Based on what those women say in court (assuming the complaining parties are required to attend and give testimony in your state), you may or may not be found guilty of the offense.


    "Thrown out" ... zero percent chance. Not prosecuted or a verdict in your favor, perhaps fifty-fifty ... more or less.

    Thanks for taking the time to reply, CDW!

    I'm meeting with my attorney this morning and I'll post back as things happen.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Traffic attorney is going to be $500 per hearing. Pleading not guilty. Attorney confirmed my borough is a cozy LEO area and this sort of thing is common. Goal is to get it squashed at the first hearing and legal is optimistic that will happen, but may have to accept pleading down to a bogus non-moving violation to placate the local power structure.


    There is indeed something wrong with a system where it'll cost me much more to defend myself than to just go along with bogus charges because it's easier. At least this will hopefully save my insurance rates.
  • 08-13-2013, 01:03 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Brake-Checked by the Chief of Police's Wife
    Most states have a process by which private citizens can initiate complaints for violations of the law that they observed. This is not unusual.

    I can't imagine that LEO wives requesting citations for traffic offenses is "common," but it appears to be permissible under the law.

    Did the attorney explain how he intends to get it "quashed" at the first hearing? Was the charging document faulty in some way? He may know something about the process that you do not, and it could be that judges in your area routinely dismiss these private person complaints. There's a reason that the fee is only $500 - the attorney knows this is either going to be a quick win by a procedural matter, or merely a single short traffic court appearance where you might win or lose depending on what the complainant and the witnesses say.
  • 08-13-2013, 06:21 PM
    thesystem
    Re: Brake-Checked by the Chief of Police's Wife
    Hello again CDWJava - thanks for the follow-up!

    I'll respond to your last message in parts for the sake of clarity - hope you don't mind.

    Quote:

    Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    Most states have a process by which private citizens can initiate complaints for violations of the law that they observed. This is not unusual.

    Totally understand that - I just found it odd that I was never contacted for my side of the story since it sounded from the verbiage of the statement taken that it was a 2-to-tango kind of situation - people generally aren't abused in traffic as a completely one sided exchange... The fact that a cursory search showed that this family was massively connected made me suspicious...

    Quote:

    Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    I can't imagine that LEO wives requesting citations for traffic offenses is "common," but it appears to be permissible under the law.

    Completely fair and reasonable - I have no problem with anyone including people who might be connected to press fair charges but since I was never contacted for my side of the ordeal I definately feel as though I've simply run afoul of the thin blue line.

    Quote:

    Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    Did the attorney explain how he intends to get it "quashed" at the first hearing? Was the charging document faulty in some way? He may know something about the process that you do not, and it could be that judges in your area routinely dismiss these private person complaints. There's a reason that the fee is only $500 - the attorney knows this is either going to be a quick win by a procedural matter, or merely a single short traffic court appearance where you might win or lose depending on what the complainant and the witnesses say.

    The attorney relayed that essentially these are the weak parts of their case:
    * Both witnesses are also the complaintants, and are related and in the same car.
    * Following closely and any other claims are subjective, especially as needed to meet criteria for the stated charge of careless driving.
    * No LEO witness
    * No objective 3rd party witness

    Attorney's main concern was that in my particular area all these people smoke cigars together for the most part - the magistrate overseeing this is a former cop in the jurisdiction that cited me and things are remarkably "cozy". Because of this I may not get a fair judgement at first and have to move downtown to a de novo trial at the court of common pleas.

    Given this stance I'm almost tempted to save the inital $500, try to play the odds on my own for the trial within the borough of jurisdiction and if I on my own fail, move to an attorney led trial de novo downtown in the court of common pleas outside the jurisdiction of influence that I speculate that these witness complaintants may or may not have.
  • 08-13-2013, 06:41 PM
    cbg
    Re: Brake-Checked by the Chief of Police's Wife
    I was never contacted for my side of the ordeal

    Of course not. They don't contact you for your side of the story before they write the ticket. You tell your side of the story in court.
  • 08-13-2013, 08:58 PM
    That Guy
    Re: Brake-Checked by the Chief of Police's Wife
    Quote:

    Quoting thesystem
    View Post
    The fact that a cursory search showed that this family was massively connected made me suspicious...

    Your cursory search, according to your first post, suggested that "thus the citing officer doesn't appear to have any direct link that I could dig up via open search methods"...

    Seriously, what sort of connection are you assuming or looking for and with or without one, how does the citing officer fit into the whole equation?

    Unless he's their gofer, why would he issue a citation that he could not isn't justified based on their statements?

    And speaking of statements, I would not expect their version to include them brake-checking you, or swerving to prevent you from passing. But it will most likely include you riding their bumper and passing as well as cutting them off. Possibly even yelling obscenities as you passed.

    You can complain about a "bogus charge" for careless driving, but the way it might look to an outsider, and with you admitting that you attempted to pass twice, and based on what they claim you cutting them off, those are three willful and intentional acts that could have easily pushed this up to reckless driving.

    And so the question that always begs itself in cases when claims are made that the charge is unwarranted unwarranted is, what was it that stopped the cop from citing you for a reckless driving offense, a misdemeanor, why did he keep it at a careless driving summery offense level? I mean if he's going to lie as a result of his boss' influence, then why not make it a good one?

    Quote:

    Quoting thesystem
    View Post
    I have no problem with anyone including people who might be connected to press fair charges but since I was never contacted for my side of the ordeal I definately feel as though I've simply run afoul of the thin blue line.

    ^This^ makes no sense whatsoever... you can continue to wonder why you were never contacted but as cbg replied, this is a traffic matter and they are not under any obligation to consult with you before charging you with a criminal offense. In fact, typically, and had they contacted you and were conducting an investigation that could possibly lead to a criminal charge, they would be required to read you your Miranda rights, would they not? Are you suggesting that you would have still given a statement at the time? You seriously would have considered rattling off the paragraph description you posted here as your answer to their questions? All while I really see a perfect opportunity to charge a reckless driving charge as a result of those statements. And at that point, you've helped them build their case by way of an admission.

    You'll get your chance to tell your side of the story although based on what you posted here, I am not sure your attorney is going to allow you such broad commentary. Better yet, he might not allow you to testify. And if it were me, I would keep my mouth zipped as well.

    Quote:

    Quoting thesystem
    View Post
    The attorney relayed that essentially these are the weak parts of their case:
    * Both witnesses are also the complaintants, and are related and in the same car.
    * Following closely and any other claims are subjective, especially as needed to meet criteria for the stated charge of careless driving.
    * No LEO witness
    * No objective 3rd party witness

    Take away the first qualifier and instead, add in the part about you being a lone witness to your side of events with nothing else and no one else to support your claims. That make your case much weaker than their.

    Now, if they really as "connected" as you describe, why consider any of that anyway? You're screwed no matter how you look at it.

    Quote:

    Quoting thesystem
    View Post
    Because of this I may not get a fair judgement at first and have to move downtown to a de novo trial at the court of common pleas.

    Nice... You go from "Goal is to get it squashed at the first hearing and legal is optimistic that will happen"... To having to go through two different trials... Were both segments there part of the same consultation?
  • 08-13-2013, 09:47 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Brake-Checked by the Chief of Police's Wife
    Quote:

    Quoting thesystem
    View Post
    Totally understand that - I just found it odd that I was never contacted for my side of the story since it sounded from the verbiage of the statement taken that it was a 2-to-tango kind of situation - people generally aren't abused in traffic as a completely one sided exchange... The fact that a cursory search showed that this family was massively connected made me suspicious...

    If the law allows for the other party to make a complaint based upon their observations, then a statement by you would have made no difference - a citation would still issue. If the officer obtained your statement, he'd have to appear in court. As it is, I suspect that the only people that will have to appear will be the complaining party and any witnesses - NOT the officer.

    Quote:

    The attorney relayed that essentially these are the weak parts of their case:
    * Both witnesses are also the complaintants, and are related and in the same car.
    * Following closely and any other claims are subjective, especially as needed to meet criteria for the stated charge of careless driving.
    * No LEO witness
    * No objective 3rd party witness
    Standard claims for bias and a "he said, she said" sort of thing. But, none of these are reasons for a court to QUASH the matter. These are issues that go to credibility and are generally expected to be heard by the trier of fact (the court). If the matter goes to court it will come down to the statements of the involved parties and witnesses.

    Quote:

    Attorney's main concern was that in my particular area all these people smoke cigars together for the most part - the magistrate overseeing this is a former cop in the jurisdiction that cited me and things are remarkably "cozy". Because of this I may not get a fair judgement at first and have to move downtown to a de novo trial at the court of common pleas.
    That might be so. But, I work in a small town and we all know each other here, too. My wife used to work with the wife of the presiding court of the Superior Court and I supported his election some years back, the previous presiding judge was a tennis coach for one of my son's, I am a friend to a couple of attorneys regularly appointed as defense counsel, I used to do theater with a former ADA, and I know every cop in the county. Sometimes it's tough not to know these folks. CAN such familiarity breed malfeasance? Sure. CAN everyone be professional and ethical? Absolutely! All because they might all know each other does not automatically mean that anything untoward has occurred or will occur.

    I am unfamiliar with the process for citations in your state, so I cannot comment on the process and what occurs, I'm afraid.
  • 08-14-2013, 05:36 AM
    thesystem
    Re: Brake-Checked by the Chief of Police's Wife
    Quote:

    Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    Nice... You go from "Goal is to get it squashed at the first hearing and legal is optimistic that will happen"... To having to go through two different trials... Were both segments there part of the same consultation?

    Obviously during the consultation we ran through hypothetical outcomes from best case to worst case.

    As for keeping my mouth shut that's always the best policy of anyone who's had the misfortune of tangling with the police and it's exactly what I intend to do. There is a very popular lecture from Regent Law School's professor James Duane ("Don't talk to the cops") that illustrates the many reasons nothing good is likely to come from dealing with LEOs, I agree with it and am willing to take the monetary hit to pay bulldog attorneys to rip into this BS ticket.

    I may be screwed in local court since they *are* all connected out here but luckily if that happens I have the money and patience to go through a de novo in a non-backwater court outside of their influence.

    Overall this is a great life lesson no matter what the outcome because it reminds me to just calmly back away from a-holes on the road and continue to not have any faith whatsoever in police as a general policy. I know there are some good ones out there but especially in a city like Pittsburgh it seems sooner or later everyone has a story about being screwed by the man. I'm just lucky I'm not part of any of the groups the cops out here habitually mess with and I can afford a defense when I do have a run-in. I'll have to do a better job of flying under the radar moving forward.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote:

    Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    Standard claims for bias and a "he said, she said" sort of thing. But, none of these are reasons for a court to QUASH the matter. These are issues that go to credibility and are generally expected to be heard by the trier of fact (the court). If the matter goes to court it will come down to the statements of the involved parties and witnesses.

    Perhaps quash is the wrong word - the attorneys who I'm working with have stated that based on experience this ticket might be too weak for the court to want to go through the trouble of prosecuting since proving careless driving based solely on lay person's arguably biased and subjective accounting of the events will make it hard to meet the burden of proof. Now that's the lesser and outside chance to just get a dismissal or charges withdrawn (which is where I got quashed from). I get that it's an outside chance but that's what we're opening with, especially if the prosecution is meeting with all the not-guilty plea defendants immediately before trial which is common if they are having a busy court day.

    I really won't have any more developments on this until sometime near the end of September now that I've entered the plea.
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page
Page 1 of 2 1 2 Next LastLast
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:02 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.4
Copyright © 2023 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2004 - 2018 ExpertLaw.com, All Rights Reserved