Can You Claim Economic Hardship to Avoid a Support Increase

My question involves child support in the State of: California.

My husband was previously married in the state of California. During that marriage, two children were born. We have several very strong reasons to believe that the children are not genetically his, including the fact that she has admitted as much to him on several different occasions privately in "confession of her sins against him as his wife" so she could "get right with God." We talked to the child support office in the county where she lives, and they told us we're "up a creek" essentially with genetic testing and the like. So for all intents and purposes these kids are now "his."

My husband has no contact with the children out of choice. He found that when he did have contact with them, her treatment of the children would get worse. Viewing them as something he liked, she would neglect and even abuse them to "get back" at him (for what, we're still trying to figure out, as SHE is the one who left the marriage to pursue a boyfriend). There was supposed to be a hearing on August 6th to terminate my husband's rights, conceivably so her new husband could adopt the children. She cancelled that, and hit us with child support revision paperwork instead.

My husband and I have a special needs child, so I stay at home with her. This puts us completely relying on my husband's paycheck. He has a good job, and he works extremely hard, but with how much she's taking in child support we are only barely managing to live in low-income housing. We can't even afford medical care for our family right now, but because my husband's gross pay is over the limit (they don't count the child support coming out apparently!) they won't allow us to have medicaid either. The child support people told my husband that if I worked we would be paying $500.00 a month in child support, as opposed to the nearly $900.00 she thinks she deserves. ($900.00 is nearly DOUBLE our rent, by the way...)

So I am left between deciding to leave my little daughter home without the care she needs with her dad while he does his job from his home office (there's no way in heck we could afford day care, obviously!), or trying to figure something else out. (What, exactly, I'm not sure!)

His ex-wife is remarried now to a man who is quite wealthy, and she herself has a job that pays MORE than my husband's job! So, we're going without basic care and living in low income housing so she can have $100.00 workout outfits and go on vacations!

Can anybody give me any advice on how to handle this besides "get a lawyer"? Trust me, if we could afford one--or even find one that would take payments--we would be all over it! I am honestly about to have a meltdown.

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Quoting raspberryjenn

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So for all intents and purposes these kids are now "his."

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Yep. As we tell people dozens of times a day around here: the time to contest paternity is DURING the divorce.

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My husband has no contact with the children out of choice. He found that when he did have contact with them, her treatment of the children would get worse. Viewing them as something he liked, she would neglect and even abuse them to "get back" at him

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If he's even thinking of using the word "abuse" in court regarding the children in the midst of a child support battle, he'd better have a copy of the report he made about that abuse in his hand when he says it. Otherwise, the court is going to be very disappointed in him for not protecting his children, and that isn't going to help him look like the "good guy" as he asks the court to lessen child support.

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There was supposed to be a hearing on August 6th to terminate my husband's rights, conceivably so her new husband could adopt the children.

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YOU were also named in the child support suit?

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My husband and I have a special needs child, so I stay at home with her. This puts us completely relying on my husband's paycheck.

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Not all special needs children NEED a stay at home mom - at least not from a medical perspective. Some will need a caregiver for their entire lives. Most are somewhere in between. No one here is in a position to evaluate whether you being a stay at home mom is reasonable given your child's specific circumstance. It depends on factors such as the child's age, nature and extent of disability, alternative resources available in your community, and other things.

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She cancelled that, and hit us with child support revision paperwork instead

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So just to be clear, there's already an existing order in place, and now mom is seeking a review?

And in that revision, she's asking for support to be changed, to $900 a month, for two children?

And the hearing on her revision request hasn't happened yet, right?

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He has a good job, and he works extremely hard, but with how much she's taking in child support we are only barely managing to live in low-income housing. We can't even afford medical care for our family right now, but because my husband's gross pay is over the limit (they don't count the child support coming out apparently!) they won't allow us to have medicaid either.

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And this is all based on the CURRENT support amount, and not on the revised amount?

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The child support people told my husband that if I worked we would be paying $500.00 a month in child support, as opposed to the nearly $900.00 she thinks she deserves. ($900.00 is nearly DOUBLE our rent, by the way...)

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What SHE wants, or what child support guesses at is really meaningless. Mom can ask for the sun and the moon too, but what COUNTS is what the JUDGE in the case orders after applying child support formulas and taking into consideration any deviations that may be applicable to the case.

The way CA's calculator works is that costs of raising his child with you can impact the formula regarding the other two children. BUT...and here's where it's getting you...you giving up employment to stay at home doen't impact the formula. You staying home only means dad doesn't have any daycare expense. You going to work and making $500 to pay for $500 of child care WOULD impact the formula, not because of your income, which isn't relevant, but because now dad has $500 worth of expenses being paid.

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So I am left between deciding to leave my little daughter home without the care she needs with her dad while he does his job from his home office (there's no way in heck we could afford day care, obviously!), or trying to figure something else out. (What, exactly, I'm not sure!)

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This isn't a problem that'll get solved in a legal sense - these are logistics issues (and sometimes, believe it or not, they are easier to solve than legal issues). Start checking with local programs to see what forms of assistance or resources may be available for your family and to assist your child if one or both of you may be unavailable due to employment. Start by contacting the California Office of Protection and Advocacy at 800-776-5746 for information, referrals, and individual case advocacy. There may be programs that can provide qualified care allowing you to work outside the home, or to support dad so he can work at home, etc.

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His ex-wife is remarried now to a man who is quite wealthy, and she herself has a job that pays MORE than my husband's job! So, we're going without basic care and living in low income housing so she can have $100.00 workout outfits and go on vacations!

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Her husband making enough to be able to shower her with luxury doesn't impact the child support forumla. But here's something that impacts it, a LOT:

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My husband has no contact with the children out of choice.

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So dad has the children 0% of the time? That means in the formula, that he gets NO consideration for doing ANYTHING for his children EXCEPT making a payment. Kind of like when doing your taxes and not getting any deductions, same principle. Not only sad for the children growing up without a father, but it's also going to smack the ever-loving s....snot...out of your husband's wallet. Percentage of time that a parent spends with their children is a BIG part of any child support case, and if mom has them all day, every day, all the time, feeding them EVERY meal, washing EVERY load of their laundry, taking them to EVERY appointment, they're using her electricity and water ALL the time, then dad is going to be expected to pay the max without any credit for time of his own. If he's leaving mom with the burden of raising his children 100% of the time, it's going to cost him.

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Can anybody give me any advice on how to handle this besides "get a lawyer"? Trust me, if we could afford one--or even find one that would take payments--we would be all over it! I am honestly about to have a meltdown.

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Obviously with as much as there is at stake here, an attorney is always adviseable. Due to the incredible demand, most Legal Aid offices only have the resources to take cases where things like the danger of domestic violence or child abuse/neglect is involved. However, that doesn't mean you should give up looking for help. For example, your area may have one or more law schools with clinics where licensed attorneys oversee students in providing legal guidance or assistance.

And, the number ONE thing dad can do for himself if he's going to court over a child support increase is to understand the California Child Support Guidelines. The basic formula only has 5 numbers in it that matter (one of those numbers in this case being a "0" for time spent with the children). But he needs to understand where those other four numbers come from, and what elements the court ACTUALLY considers, which is often VERY VERY VERY different than what lots of parents or spouses of those parents think SHOULD be considered.

Then, he needs to Google California Family Code section 4057, which sets out guidelines that allow the judge to order something OTHER than what the child support calculator spits out (both discretionary reductions, add-ons, etc.).

Thank you, Aardvarc! I appreciate the time you took to answer my question. Your answer was well thought out and clear. It looks like we have some serious learning to do about California Law!

Not child support related:

How disabled is the child? Have you applied for SSI for her? She may be eligible for assistance http://www.ssa.gov/disability/disabi..._child_eng.htm

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Quoting raspberryjenn

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My question involves child support in the State of: California.

My husband was previously married in the state of California. During that marriage, two children were born. We have several very strong reasons to believe that the children are not genetically his, including the fact that she has admitted as much to him on several different occasions privately in "confession of her sins against him as his wife" so she could "get right with God." We talked to the child support office in the county where she lives, and they told us we're "up a creek" essentially with genetic testing and the like. So for all intents and purposes these kids are now "his."

My husband has no contact with the children out of choice. He found that when he did have contact with them, her treatment of the children would get worse. Viewing them as something he liked, she would neglect and even abuse them to "get back" at him (for what, we're still trying to figure out, as SHE is the one who left the marriage to pursue a boyfriend). There was supposed to be a hearing on August 6th to terminate my husband's rights, conceivably so her new husband could adopt the children. She cancelled that, and hit us with child support revision paperwork instead.

My husband and I have a special needs child, so I stay at home with her. This puts us completely relying on my husband's paycheck. He has a good job, and he works extremely hard, but with how much she's taking in child support we are only barely managing to live in low-income housing. We can't even afford medical care for our family right now, but because my husband's gross pay is over the limit (they don't count the child support coming out apparently!) they won't allow us to have medicaid either. The child support people told my husband that if I worked we would be paying $500.00 a month in child support, as opposed to the nearly $900.00 she thinks she deserves. ($900.00 is nearly DOUBLE our rent, by the way...)

So I am left between deciding to leave my little daughter home without the care she needs with her dad while he does his job from his home office (there's no way in heck we could afford day care, obviously!), or trying to figure something else out. (What, exactly, I'm not sure!)

His ex-wife is remarried now to a man who is quite wealthy, and she herself has a job that pays MORE than my husband's job! So, we're going without basic care and living in low income housing so she can have $100.00 workout outfits and go on vacations!

Can anybody give me any advice on how to handle this besides "get a lawyer"? Trust me, if we could afford one--or even find one that would take payments--we would be all over it! I am honestly about to have a meltdown.

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Your husband's FIRST obligation is to and will always be to support the children he had before you before anything else. Sorry, but that's just the way it goes. As for Medi-Cal and all the rest of the stuff? The state is broke and they didn't help you make a baby. When a child has 2 able bodied parents, those 2 able bodied parents should work and support their offspring.

And before you say anything, my former supervisor has a special needs child who at 18, still cannot use the restroom on his own and is nonverbal, and she's worked to support her children as a single parent ALL of their lives. It can be done. It may not be convenience. It may force you to do things you don't WANT to do, but it's not because you CAN'T do it.

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Quoting Lehk

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Not child support related:

How disabled is the child? Have you applied for SSI for her? She may be eligible for assistance http://www.ssa.gov/disability/disabi..._child_eng.htm

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Thank you so much for the idea!

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If by "support the children he had" you mean "make it easier for the mother of children that aren't genetically his and have been trained to hate his guts to get her hair and nails done, and have her half-million dollar house while we live in poverty and are forced to look at getting on government assistance just to survive" then I guess you're correct! By law, it IS his responsibility. I guess once you get married--even if it was an arranged, loveless (even LIKEless!) and very abusive marriage--and your wife cheats on you and has kids with someone else and then you get divorced because she's super abusive, you should just give up and never get married or have any kids ever again...because you aren't allowed to have a life! You have a DUTY to support your abuser's expensive habits for at least 20 years! How dare you even think about procreating and having a family and life of your own, right? You're doomed to be alone forever...without even a Constitutional trial for the theft of your money. Because what would life be for HER if she didn't have her fancy clothes? She might have to shop at *gulp* a store where clothing costs less than a month's rent! The horrors. :nightmare:

*Sigh* I just wish she didn't use so much of the state's money to pay for her stuff by lying to get on welfare in addition to taking our money! Then there might be enough left over for everyone else! So much for the state not being responsible for people's kids. I guess they are if you're not HONEST. I hope she enjoys that karma. Glad it's not mine. Truthfully, we don't even live in California, so it doesn't matter much to me one way or another if the state is broke. And I'm fully aware that the state of California didn't help me make my baby...I wouldn't sleep with anything that corrupt.

In fact, my husband didn't help make my daughter either, actually! She came from a previous relationship (read: 18 year old's mistake) which was extremely abusive, and he has been amazing about fighting for her and getting her adopted and away from her ridiculous father. He's a wonderful dad to her! It's a shame his ex-wife wouldn't LET HIM be that amazing for her kids. Because he tried over and over and over, and she fought him every step of the way. He persisted. He even fought for custody, but we didn't have proof of her behavior so it stayed joint custody. (She went as far as having a friend hack our email accounts to delete the abusive emails she sent us. Yeah, we should have had a copy! You live, you learn. :()

So, when his visits started making the oldest little girl with autism have severe emotional problems because her "mother" (I use the term extremely loosely) would tell her things like "your dad hates you" and "your dad is going to hurt you when you go with him, so be careful of him" and "your dad is addicted to porn and wants to sleep with you" among MANY other lies when my husband would go for his split custody visitation, he backed off and let them go.

Since then, the oldest girl has improved. Because she doesn't have that constant hate thrown at her by her mother. Because now she doesn't say things like "I love my dad" which made this lady fly off the handle. She doesn't say those things because SHE DOESN'T KNOW HIM. And you have NO IDEA how hard that has been for him, even though they aren't his. It has been excruciating. Maybe if she wasn't taking so much of our money, we would have been able to afford a lawyer to push the abuse charges AND taken care of our daughter instead of having to choose.

Did we try other channels to report her abuse? YES we did in fact. We actually managed to get their at-home day care shut down for falsifying documents for government lunches, and neglect of the children. Then the case was closed. No sentence other than "shut down the day care." Because it's difficult to prove manipulative abuse like she was throwing at the kids on the best day, isn't it?

But, you know, my husband has an OBLIGATION to support this woman. :wallbang:

As for me working, that seems like the option I'm looking at. I've worked for most of my life until my daughter was born, so it's not a foreign concept. It will not be good for my daughter's emotional problems. We have the therapist's letters to attest to that. Of course, like the supervisor you talked about, I don't doubt that it can be done, but it's a sad world when a mooching, cheating, using, abusing, welfare fraud lady's expensive clothes habit gets more consideration than the mental health of a child. (Not just this adult woman who likes to PRETEND she is a child, and that she needs my husband as an ATM to buy her darn Prada.)

The take-away point here? Not all men are bad. Not all of them are the abusers. Not all of them are dogs who leave their children and should be punished financially for it. My man isn't, and it really stinks that he has to see his hard-earned money go to buy useless extras for a greedy abuser while the five and six year old girls he loved (and would have gladly stayed with and parented!) are taught that he "wants to rape" them, and that he "never supports" them because he's "lazy".

Anyway, thanks for the response! I appreciate the, er, encouragement.

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WHOOPS! That was not meant for you, Lehk! Your advice was great. Thank you!

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Quoting CourtClerk

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Your husband's FIRST obligation is to and will always be to support the children he had before you before anything else. Sorry, but that's just the way it goes. As for Medi-Cal and all the rest of the stuff? The state is broke and they didn't help you make a baby. When a child has 2 able bodied parents, those 2 able bodied parents should work and support their offspring.

And before you say anything, my former supervisor has a special needs child who at 18, still cannot use the restroom on his own and is nonverbal, and she's worked to support her children as a single parent ALL of their lives. It can be done. It may not be convenience. It may force you to do things you don't WANT to do, but it's not because you CAN'T do it.

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The response that went to Lehk was meant for you CourtClerk! Sorry for any confusion, and thanks for taking the time to respond to my question...

Man, that was almost worthy of Second Wifezillas (I'm thinking of developing that show).

Congrats to Dad for letting the kids remain in such an allegedly toxic household.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Man, that was almost worthy of Second Wifezillas (I'm thinking of developing that show).

Congrats to Dad for letting the kids remain in such an allegedly toxic household.

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Lol You start it and I'm there. Yeah, NOT. Did I mention that we fought for custody repeatedly? And that despite any evidence we could get, we were turned down every single time? Did you want him to stay within the confines of the law, or were you advocating kidnap?

Here's what he should have done:

File for custody.

Ask that a GAL is assigned.

The GAL generally talks to the children.

The GAL makes a recommendation to the judge.

Is it my fault he didn't get custody? Of course not.

But backing off completely? That's the wrong course of action - in my opinion, of course.

Not my problem though. Not my kids.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Here's what he should have done:

File for custody.

Ask that a GAL is assigned.

The GAL generally talks to the children.

The GAL makes a recommendation to the judge.

Is it my fault he didn't get custody? Of course not.

But backing off completely? That's the wrong course of action - in my opinion, of course.

Not my problem though. Not my kids.

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The people in charge of the case talked to the kids repeatedly, and they had home investigations. Especially during the day care case. I really wish the kids weren't so scared of their mother's reactions, because then they might have told the truth. I mean, we have actually heard her say those things I quoted to the kids before, among others. She has Borderline Personality Disorder (actually diagnosed before) so it's tough to get people to see her for what she is unless they know her tactics, unfortunately. We tried to record it once, and were told that it wasn't admissible in court.

I'm sorry to everyone if I was a Second Bridezilla...I just get so upset when she keeps taking and taking and taking, and no matter what we're told there's nothing we can do. Especially since none of it goes to the children.

I get a little bit up in arms when someone says "your husband will always have a responsibility to them first" because why SHOULD he? I understand paying for the KIDS, but this lady's BMW? Not so much. Especially when it affects OUR family, and she's just so bottomless when it comes to her greed.

As far as we can tell, she's not nearly as bad to the kids when my husband isn't in the picture, because then they fit better into her "perfect" idea of how the world should be with her new husband and their family. When she sees them as having "baggage" in the form of my husband, she treats them worse. So, when the last bid for custody failed, we made the only decision we knew how to make for the benefit of the kids. I mean, even the family law facilitator told us we had pretty much done everything legally possible.

So, thank you very much for your advice about the GAL. If it's any different than having the social workers talk to the children, we would be willing to give it a try. But I really don't think it is.