My question will probably surprise but I am absolutely serious about this.
Imagine that I am the creator of a brand of "Real Dolls" (which are high quality dolls for adults - if you don't know what it is, google it) and I would like to use the "likeness" of famous actresses and top models for my dolls. The faces would be sculpted by hand from pictures of said women, so it could be considered to be an artistic extrapolation of somebody's likeness, not a picture perfect rip off.
But the catch is, the way the dolls are built, the customer has many options up for his choosing in the way the doll looks like: he can change the hairstyle, hair color, eye color, skin tone, etc... he can also choose from several bodies. So, in essence, the only part that would be inspired by famous women would be the bone structure of the face. Besides, their name would never be mentioned, their identity never revealed to be the basis for the dolls.
So, is that ground enough for a lawsuit? This is a small business so the likelihood of it being found out would be minimal but you never know. That's why I'm asking. Considering what the dolls are used for, there's no doubt the "model" would want to sue, but is there ground enough to do so, and of course win in a court of law?
Likeness seems extremely vague a concept to me, so it's difficult to know where the line is drawn. If we're talking about looking like somebody, is the bone structure of the face enough or is it just one part of a larger whole? Is a white skinned Kim Kardashian with blond hair and blue eyes still Kim Kardashian? Or enough for her to sue on right of publicity ?
Thanks in advance for your interest in my peculiar topic and hopefully your answer!
Using Somebody Else's Likeness Without Permission
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08-06-2013, 09:11 AMCreatorUsing Somebody Else's Likeness Without Permission
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08-06-2013, 11:07 AMMr. KnowitallRe: Using Somebody Else's Likeness Without Permission
What would be the point of using the likeness of famous people if nobody could figure it out? And if the point is that everybody can figure it out, how do you propose that it would be an "artistic extrapolation" as opposed to the use of their actual likeness.
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08-06-2013, 02:07 PMCreatorRe: Using Somebody Else's Likeness Without Permission
Good questions.
Customers probably would figure it out, because if you can choose Kim Kardashian as a blue eyed blonde, you can also choose her as a tanned brunette, and then she obviously looks like herself. But then, since I'm not the one making the choice, am I still responsible?
This reminds me of something similar that I saw in the video game industry a while ago. They used a few famous actors' faces as canvases for creating characters, like Liam Neeson, Clint Eastwood or Scarlet Johansson. Then you were able to modify the face, just like what I described.
You can see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ9yx3M758Y
I don't know if they were prosecuted for using these actors' likenesses, but this is obvious, and things like this are bound to happen again.
As for me, using famous actresses' likeness is a no brainer, it would attract customers even if I'm not advertising it. They would probably recognize the faces pretty fast. For top models, it wouldn't be to ride on their fame but because they make great canvases for good facial structure. I've worked in the fashion industry before and a good bone structure assures you that the girl will always look beautiful, regardless of hairstyle or other features.
My opinion is that I would probably be pretty safe doing this, but I'm not a specialist of the law so that's why I'm coming here for clarification.
P.S.: I used the terms "artistic extrapolation" because it would be a re-creation of the face by a sculptor, not an actual photograph for example. -
08-06-2013, 02:15 PMllworkingRe: Using Somebody Else's Likeness Without PermissionI very much doubt that you would be "safe" at all. You need to run this idea by an attorney in the entertainment industry.Quote:
Quoting Creator
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08-06-2013, 03:40 PMMr. KnowitallRe: Using Somebody Else's Likeness Without Permission
Again, there's no point to your plan unless you want the celebrities to be recognized - in which case you're anything but safe. If you truly don't want the celebrities to be recognized, there's no need to use their likenesses.
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08-06-2013, 05:25 PMmmmagiqueRe: Using Somebody Else's Likeness Without Permission
There are so many beautiful (and handsome) faces that aren't celebrity...why not just come up with your own?
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OR! Pay someone who does look like a celebrity for the use of their likeness. Have a contract, etc. I don't think the law can stop people who look like others (more famous) from selling the use of their likeness. -
08-07-2013, 02:25 AMCreatorRe: Using Somebody Else's Likeness Without PermissionFunny! You mean instead of stealing Kim Kardashian's likeness I could just ask Georgia Salpa instead !Quote:
Quoting mmmagique
http://i33.fastpic.ru/thumb/2013/080...4d560d39b.jpeg http://i33.fastpic.ru/thumb/2013/080...fc0e2f8dc.jpeg
The problem is, famous or not, few people will agree to the use of their image to make dolls for adults.
Yes, I want them to be recognized, I just don't want to be too obvious about it.Quote:
Quoting Mr. Knowitall
But I did not come here to ask whether I should do this or not. I came here to know if people can sue me for using them as an inspiration for their facial structure, and if they can win against me in a court of law. The problem hangs on the definition of "likeness". That is all I'm asking. -
08-07-2013, 03:37 AMfree9manRe: Using Somebody Else's Likeness Without Permission
Anyone can pretty much sue anyone for anything in this country and it's not always about whether they win. Will you be able to afford one or more costly legal battles if you are sued? As the old saying goes, you could win the battle but lose the war. Given what you are wanting to use their images/likeness for, you can expect each and every one of them to sue you when they find out.
I cannot think for the life of me why someone would object to their image being used to make Real Dolls.:rolleyes:
The video game case appears to be a user who had a lot of time on his/her hands and used random elements in the design system to approximate the celebrity. They also weren't doing it for commercial purposes as near as I could tell. That makes them a far less interesting target for being sued than someone like you. -
08-07-2013, 04:58 AMmmmagiqueRe: Using Somebody Else's Likeness Without PermissionWhy? Do you think that others would know? And if so, that would be an interesting conversation.Quote:
Quoting Creator
"I saw your face on a sex doll"
"Oh really? Why were you looking at sex dolls? Plus, I'm sure there are many people who look like me..."
I'm sure if you paid enough, there would be a lot of people willing to offer their likeness. -
08-07-2013, 05:06 AMLehkRe: Using Somebody Else's Likeness Without Permission
Yes you WILL be sued and you WILL lose.
If you want to do something like you need to get signed releases from your models.
Almost no regular celebrities are going to agree to that, you will probably have decent luck with porn stars expect to pay a percentage of net sales not just a one time fee.