Ticket for Not Stopping at a Non-Existent Stop Sign, How Should I Fight It
My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California
I was given a citation for "failure to stop at a stop sign" at a 'Y' type intersection. The situation itself is confusing and there are a few issues I have with the ticket. I'll explain what happened first, and then why I am so confused about the ticket and how to approach contesting it.
What Happened:
At around 9:40pm, I was coming down an unmarked dirt road from a summer camp where I was working. I made a right turn onto a north/south traveling street (let's call it First St.). There is a stop sign (where I fully stopped) at the end of First St. where you must turn either left (west traveling) or right (east traveling). Let's call this street A St. I turned left from First St. onto A St. At this point, no one was behind, in front, to the left, or right of me, and I am certain of this because it is a very dark intersection and you can see headlights of cars coming from about a 1/4 to 3/4 of a mile in any direction. I pull out and drive about 1.5 miles when some one comes from behind me and is tailgating me with their high beams on. About 1 mile after that starts, I find out that it is a cop and he is pulling me over. I thought I was going to get a speeding ticket because I had hit 60mph in a 55mph a couple times trying to get the tailgater to stop tailgating. So I was very confused when I was handed a ticket for running a stop sign. I asked where it was and he did not indicate any street names, he just said "At the 'Y'." So while he was writing up my ticket, I looked at a map on my phone and found the nearest Y intersection and asked him if it was that one. He said no and then had me scroll the map further to the next Y and said it was that one. Which further confused me when I read the ticket after the cop drove off, because that was not the intersection he wrote the ticket for. He wrote the ticket for the intersection of First St and A St. but pulled me over almost 3 miles away from that intersection.
Problems with ticket:
I'm going to ignore that he pointed to the wrong intersection on a map and just chalk it up to an honest mistake. I'll even let the tailgating go since he was probably getting my plates or something. My biggest issues is that he wrote the ticket saying I was traveling Westbound on A St. at the intersection with First St., when in reality I was traveling southbound on First St. Secondly, even if I had been traveling westbound on A St., there is no stop sign in that direction!
Summary:
I was written a very confusing ticket, far away from the point of the "violation", for running a stop sign that does not exist traveling in a direction that I could not have been going in (I can get multiple witness testimonies from people I was working with verifying the time I left and location of the camp grounds).
Questions:
How do I fight this? It's a very confusing story to tell and I plan on fighting it via Trial by Written Declaration since I live over 3 hours away from the court house.
Should ignore the fact that I was traveling in a different direction on the ticket and just fight the fact that "A St." traveling westbound does not have a stop sign? If I do that, is a Google Street view photo evidence enough? Or should I go back to the intersection and take a bunch of photos of it myself?
Thank you for any help you can give me.
Re: Ticket for Not Stopping at a Non-Existent Stop Sign, How Should I Fight It
Quote:
Quoting
ajhalsell
Summary:
I was written a very confusing ticket, far away from the point of the "violation", for running a stop sign that does not exist traveling in a direction that I could not have been going in
Sorry, but after reading the whole post, you are confusing yourself for some reason or another...
But let me take it from the top... the fact that you stated you did in fact stop before turning, implies that you are aware of the requirement to stop when entering one roadway from another roadway. Correct?
Quote:
Quoting
ajhalsell
I was given a citation for "failure to stop at a stop sign"
What code section were you cited for (from the ticket)?
Quote:
Quoting
ajhalsell
I turned left from First St. onto A St. At this point, no one was behind, in front, to the left, or right of me, and I am certain of this because it is a very dark intersection and you can see headlights of cars coming from about a 1/4 to 3/4 of a mile in any direction. I pull out and drive about 1.5 miles when some one comes from behind me and is tailgating me with their high beams on.
None of this has any relevance simply because it does not matter if you saw him or not. What matters is what he saw you do or not do. You claim you fully stopped, and we can assume that he disagrees otherwise he would not have cited you... In fact, if I had read that before the part about your claim you fully stopped, I would have assumed that you didn't stop because you "could see 1/4 to 3/4 of a mile in any direction"...
Quote:
Quoting
ajhalsell
Which further confused me when I read the ticket after the cop drove off, because that was not the intersection he wrote the ticket for.
OK, so to un-confuse yourself, just pretend that you never showed him a map, and he never pointed out the wrong intersection because in reality, there is no requirement that he point to the correct intersection on a map, he is only required to name the intersection on the citation. And since he did that as required, this whole issue you're blowing out of proportion is irrelevant and is of no value.
Quote:
Quoting
ajhalsell
He wrote the ticket for the intersection of First St and A St. but pulled me over almost 3 miles away from that intersection.
There is no minimum or maximum distance requirement before he can pull you over.
Quote:
Quoting
ajhalsell
Problems with ticket:
I'm going to ignore that he pointed to the wrong intersection on a map and just chalk it up to an honest mistake. I'll even let the tailgating go since he was probably getting my plates or something. My biggest issues is that he wrote the ticket saying I was traveling Westbound on A St. at the intersection with First St., when in reality I was traveling southbound on First St. Secondly, even if I had been traveling westbound on A St., there is no stop sign in that direction!
Just to clarify, and in addition to the part about pointing to the wrong map (in fact, it is possible that your confusion is not due to the fact that he pointed to the wrong intersection, it maybe due to the fact that you mis-read the map) its irrelevant. And so is the "tailgating"... So whether you "let that go or not" it isn't going to be n issue nor is it going to provide you with a way out.
As for the rest of that paragraph about 1st instead of A and vice versa, how are concluding that please???
Quote:
Quoting
ajhalsell
Summary:
I was written a very confusing ticket, far away from the point of the "violation", for running a stop sign that does not exist traveling in a direction that I could not have been going in (I can get multiple witness testimonies from people I was working with verifying the time I left and location of the camp grounds).
I think you are over exaggerating a number of meaningless issues the main one in particular, was one you created (the map on your phone). Regardless, going to court saying I'm confused will get you nothing in return.
I'll wait for your answers to the couple of questions I asked and we'll go from there. But just to get this out of the way:
Quote:
Quoting
ajhalsell
I can get multiple witness testimonies from people I was working with verifying the time I left and location of the camp grounds.
The approximate time you left is not in dispute. An approximate time (I assume) is noted on the citation. Neither is the location of the camp... Think about it... You get 10 people to swear to the location of the camp and the time you left there, and unless one or all ten of those witness were with you in the car, their testimony does not establish which direction you were headed at the moment the officer witnessed your violation. Example, is it possible that while you were on 1st and upon arriving at A, you made a mistake and turned left instead of right? Only to then realize your mistake, turn around and head straight on A passing first?