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My Ex- Won't Get a Job
My question involves child support in the State of: IL
My ex has been unemployed for a year and 7 months. He lost his job 12/11. When he lost his job my support was reduced to $350 a month. 28% of his unemployment for 2 children. His parents came into some/ lots money May of 2012. Prior to my ex losing his job I received $1050 a month. That was still lower than the 28% in IL for two children. At the time of our divorce, I agreed to the lower amount in return for full custody. Now 7/16/13, he is still paying the $350 a month. He states his parents are not giving him money, but they did pay off his house (prior our marital home) value $250,000. They bought him a new car value $56,000. He also states he will never return to work. He is remarried and has two children from that marriage. His current wife works as a teller at a bank and does not make very much money. I'm afraid if I return to court they will reduce my support to zero. Since it is his parents that are rich not him. Thank you
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
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mscoby
My question involves child support in the State of: IL
My ex has been unemployed for a year and 7 months. He lost his job 12/11. When he lost his job my support was reduced to $350 a month. 28% of his unemployment for 2 children. His parents came into some/ lots money May of 2012. Prior to my ex losing his job I received $1050 a month. That was still lower than the 28% in IL for two children. At the time of our divorce, I agreed to the lower amount in return for full custody. Now 7/16/13, he is still paying the $350 a month. He states his parents are not giving him money, but they did pay off his house (prior our marital home) value $250,000. They bought him a new car value $56,000. He also states he will never return to work. He is remarried and has two children from that marriage. His current wife works as a teller at a bank and does not make very much money. I'm afraid if I return to court they will reduce my support to zero. Since it is his parents that are rich not him. Thank you
So what if his parents are millionaires - he is not.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
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mscoby
My question involves child support in the State of: IL
My ex has been unemployed for a year and 7 months. He lost his job 12/11. When he lost his job my support was reduced to $350 a month. 28% of his unemployment for 2 children. His parents came into some/ lots money May of 2012. Prior to my ex losing his job I received $1050 a month. That was still lower than the 28% in IL for two children. At the time of our divorce, I agreed to the lower amount in return for full custody. Now 7/16/13, he is still paying the $350 a month. He states his parents are not giving him money, but they did pay off his house (prior our marital home) value $250,000. They bought him a new car value $56,000. He also states he will never return to work. He is remarried and has two children from that marriage. His current wife works as a teller at a bank and does not make very much money. I'm afraid if I return to court they will reduce my support to zero. Since it is his parents that are rich not him. Thank you
They won't reduce his support to zero...he can be imputed an income if he refuses to work. The problem is that he can be imputed anything from 40 hours a week at minimum wage, up to the same amount he was earning when he lost his job. Its impossible to know what the courts will impute. So yes, you do have some risk (assuming that he is at least paying the 350.00 a month now) if you take it back to court.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
That is true and I stated that, but they are paying everything for him and he refuses to return to work. How can someone not return to work for over a year and 7months and live off of mommy and daddy and not take care of there kids.
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Thank you llworking. Much nicer and more informative than Antigone.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
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mscoby
That is true and I stated that, but they are paying everything for him and he refuses to return to work. How can someone not return to work for over a year and 7months and live off of mommy and daddy and not take care of there kids.
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Thank you llworking. Much nicer and more informative than Antigone.
My answer was legally accurate, it is just not what you wanted to here. It is not illegal for this man to not work. It is not illegal for his mommy and daddy to financially support him. You are more concerned with the morality of the issue - this is something we can't control, and we cannot answer for you.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
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Antigone
My answer was legally accurate, it is just not what you wanted to here. It is not illegal for this man to not work. It is not illegal for his mommy and daddy to financially support him.
I think mom said just about as much herself in the original post, actually. And no, I don't think she wanted to hear you repeat it to her, since its not really helpful.
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Antigone
You are more concerned with the morality of the issue - this is something we can't control, and we cannot answer for you.
It seems to me that mom is more concerned with what legal options she has, if any, and is hoping that she does indeed have some considering the circumstances. As well she should. If I were mom I'd try putting some numbers in a child support calculator for my state (a quick google search should turn that up fairly easily) and test out different possible "scenarios." For example, try putting dad's income in at minimum wage and see what pops out, keeping in mind that dad may or may not get an allowance from the judge for his two new children. It may be that even that comes out to more than $350 per month for two kids, especially if daycare expenses are involved. Then consider whether or not it would be a good idea to go back to court on the premise that dad is voluntarily unemployed and his earning potential is $X to see what a judge thinks is fair. Even showing up to court with advertisements for jobs in dad's field of work can sometimes help a judge understand that dad may have more employment options than he is letting on if he cries about not being able to find a job.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
How can someone not return to work for over a year and 7months and live off of mommy and daddy and not take care of there kids.
This is not a legal question. Hence my response.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
Actually, it is. And mom has the legal options noted above by myself and llworking, and perhaps other legal options we are unaware of.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
Mom and dad can provide for their son in any way they see fit. Period.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
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EA1070a
Mom and dad can provide for their son in any way they see fit. Period.
Now, now EA that isn't what the OP wants to hear:rolleyes::p
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
Well this time I'm going to have to side with the OP and Fatherwhowon. I don't believe she just wanted a question of morality answered. I believe she wants to know what the probable outcome will be should she take dad back to court.
While we can't know that, we can speculate, that, as in many cases, the court *may* impute a wage to him that is similar to what he has earned in the past. Especially if mom has proof of him telling her he would never go back to work. Personally OP, I would take the chance. You don't have much to lose anyway. If you ever have to, you can get by without support, but you won't have to. You may just have a little bit less. (but I doubt it)
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
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EA1070a
Mom and dad can provide for their son in any way they see fit. Period.
Huh? What does this even mean? Mom and dad obviously have a disagreement about providing for the children. So no, they don't get to decide individually for themselves. That's why there are judges to decide for them. And mom here wants to possibly bring this matter back to the judge and wants to know how, if she can, to make her case. But it would seem mom is scared off at this point anyway.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
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FatherWhoWon
Huh? What does this even mean? Mom and dad obviously have a disagreement about providing for the children. So no, they don't get to decide individually for themselves. That's why there are judges to decide for them. And mom here wants to possibly bring this matter back to the judge and wants to know how, if she can, to make her case. But it would seem mom is scared off at this point anyway.
EA is talking about Dad's mommy and daddy (this is how the OP referred to dad's parents)
M - OP is miffed about the fact that Dad's parents support him, legally it is a non-issue. The issue is dad's earning capacity and any income that can be imputed to him. Betcha dollars to donuts that if he is imputed a child support amount, his "mommy and daddy" will pay it for him, and the the OP will huff and puff that "HE" isn't paying the support.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
Thanks for the clarification. I really don't think anyone was trying to dispute that.
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Antigone
The issue is dad's earning capacity and any income that can be imputed to him.
Indeed, and this was the main point of the legal options discussion, not contributed to as yet by yourself.
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Antigone
Betcha dollars to donuts that if he is imputed a child support amount, his "mommy and daddy" will pay it for him, and the the OP will huff and puff that "HE" isn't paying the support.
Since mom hasn't actually done that yet, nor given indication that she will, it seems more prudent to me to actually try to give her legal advice rather than judgment over a speculation of what you think she will do in the future. Not to mention, that has no legal relevance even if she does that anyway, since you seem so stuck on what is or is not a legal issue.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
Does income just count as a job or does the court include the gifts he is receiving as income. His parents gave him over 300,000 to pay off the house and buy a $56,000 car.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
I don't know the legal answer to that. (hopefully someone else here will) but I would think if he has to declare it on his taxes (and with that much he will) it will be considered income.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
No, this won't be considered income for purposes of calculating child support. Only one casein Illinois has sound that monetary gifts from parents are income (Rogers v Rogers) and that case was significantly different. In that case, the ex-husband's parents gave a monetary gift to their son in excess of 40k each and every year of his adult life.
You aren't going to benefit from this with an increase in support.
Whether or not he has to declare these gifts with the IRS is a question for a tax attorney or an accountant to decide based on ow the money was transferred to him, and is outside the scope of your concern.
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FatherWhoWon
Since mom hasn't actually done that yet, nor given indication that she will, it seems more prudent to me to actually try to give her legal advice rather than judgment over a speculation of what you think she will do in the future. Not to mention, that has no legal relevance even if she does that anyway, since you seem so stuck on what is or is not a legal issue.
Mhmm. Oh, it's coming. Maybe OP won't complain about it here, but the inference is thinly veiled in the tone of the posts.
If the ex is still eligible for and receiving UI and the Court has already reduced support based on the fact that he was laid off, very little is likely to change until he is no longer eligible for UI. At that point she can file a request for modification based on imputed income, but once someone is out of the job market for a long period of time, their earning power is generally significantly decreased.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
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EA1070a
No, this won't be considered income for purposes of calculating child support. Only one casein Illinois has sound that monetary gifts from parents are income (Rogers v Rogers) and that case was significantly different. In that case, the ex-husband's parents gave a monetary gift to their son in excess of 40k each and every year of his adult life.
You aren't going to benefit from this with an increase in support.
Whether or not he has to declare these gifts with the IRS is a question for a tax attorney or an accountant to decide based on ow the money was transferred to him, and is outside the scope of your concern.
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Mhmm. Oh, it's coming. Maybe OP won't complain about it here, but the inference is thinly veiled in the tone of the posts.
If the ex is still eligible for and receiving UI and the Court has already reduced support based on the fact that he was laid off, very little is likely to change until he is no longer eligible for UI. At that point she can file a request for modification based on imputed income, but once someone is out of the job market for a long period of time, their earning power is generally significantly decreased.
Sure it's moms concern, it's every taxpayer in our country's concern if dad and his parents are cheating the IRS. If I knew them, I would turn their butts in without blinking an eye. Ya know the IRS has a whistleblower program where they actually give you a percentage they recover for turning them in. You can also not go through the whistleblower program and remain anonymous. The more the cheaters out there, the more it keeps costing the rest of us.
So what if she gripes about it. Dad is sitting on his butt, not looking for work, saying he is never going back to work and mom is bearing the brunt of the cost of raising the children.
I don't get why one can't gripe cause their ex is acting like a first class idiot. Ya get your gripes out, discuss them with people, blow off steam, see what you can do if you can even do anything and your not blowing at the first class idiot.
He's been out of the job market because he wanted to be, and many Judges do not look kindly on that and will impute him with what he was earning when he left his job. Specially if mom can provide the court with proof that he is not going to go back to work and that he is living off his parents. He has not mortgage, no car payment, while that can't be in the child support calculations, it can sway a Judge to impute him with exactly what he was making before he decided to be unemployed for good.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
You're joking, right? I highly doubt that OP has any clue how that money was transferred to her ex. If you knew the first thing about Estate Planning you'd know that there are numerous ways to transfer money via a good, solid Estate Plan that in no way, shape or form "cheats" the IRS. Do you know anything at all about taxation, gift taxes (paid by the donor, not the recipient), and maximum lifetime gift exclusions?
OP is pissed off that her ex's parents paid off his house. Based on his parent's wealth, I have no doubt that it was handled by professionals.
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The gift tax is perhaps the most misunderstood of all taxes. When it comes into play, this tax is owed by the giver of the gift, not the recipient.
OP is claiming her ex is out of the job market by choice, but if he's receiving UI, he has to demonstrate that he's actually looking for employment.
Child support in Illinois is based purely on a percentage of income. The fact that he no longer carries a mortgage is irrelevant. Take a look at the support calculator. The Court already modified support in dad's favor. OP can seek a modification and ask the court to impute wages, but unless she can prove his parents are supporting him in a way that is consistent with the ruling in Rogers, and that does not seem to be the case here, she'll have one hell of a time arguing that paying off his house and buying him a car should be counted as income.
And unless dad was dumb enough to state in writing that he has no intention of ever working again, she'll have a hell of a time proving he ever said it.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
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EA1070a
OP is claiming her ex is out of the job market by choice, but if he's receiving UI, he has to demonstrate that he's actually looking for employment.
The burden of proof for this isn't very high. It really doesn't mean anything.
Don't know about the irs one way or the other, but otherwise I.think gam is spot on.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
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FatherWhoWon
The burden of proof for this isn't very high. It really doesn't mean anything.
Don't know about the irs one way or the other, but otherwise I.think gam is spot on.
If dad can show a history of looking for employment sufficient to continue a UI claim, and as long as he is still receiving UI, I don't think OP has a very strong case for imputation of wages and an upwards modification.
When the UI runs out and he still isn't working, she should look into returning to court. But the assistance that dad is receiving from his parents won't count as income absent a showing consistent with current case law. A few gifts here and there, no matter how sizeable, do not income make. Support in OP's state is based purely off of NCP's income. Whether she can successfully argue wages should be imputed to dad at his pre-layoff rate based on deliberate underemployment or unemployment will depend on the judge who hears the case. It isn't outside the realm of possibility and could likely happen.
But mom going into court trying to have these gifts counted as income isn't going to fly under the statutes and case law I've read.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
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EA1070a
If dad can show a history of looking for employment sufficient to continue a UI claim, and as long as he is still receiving UI, I don't think OP has a very strong case for imputation of wages and an upwards modification.
When the UI runs out and he still isn't working, she should look into returning to court. But the assistance that dad is receiving from his parents won't count as income absent a showing consistent with current case law. A few gifts here and there, no matter how sizeable, do not income make. Support in OP's state is based purely off of NCP's income. Whether she can successfully argue wages should be imputed to dad at his pre-layoff rate based on deliberate underemployment or unemployment will depend on the judge who hears the case. It isn't outside the realm of possibility and could likely happen.
But mom going into court trying to have these gifts counted as income isn't going to fly under the statutes and case law I've read.
I have seen a very very small handful of cases where support from parents has been considered as income for child support purposes if someone is voluntarily unemployed. I have also seen a very small handful of cases where the income of a spouse was considered in similar circumstances. However, those cases have truly been rare.
Therefore, while its likely that your interpretation of the situation is how it will play out, there is a very slim chance that it could be considered...and a slightly better one that it would impact how much of an income a judge might choose to impute.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
[QUOTE=EA1070a;726621]
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You're joking, right? I highly doubt that OP has any clue how that money was transferred to her ex. If you knew the first thing about Estate Planning you'd know that there are numerous ways to transfer money via a good, solid Estate Plan that in no way, shape or form "cheats" the IRS. Do you know anything at all about taxation, gift taxes (paid by the donor, not the recipient), and maximum lifetime gift exclusions?
You know the first thing about Estate Planning and taxes how? If your going to question what I know, then you need to offer up your expert background in these.
I do know a bit about taxes(use to do taxes, sister is a CPA and my mom did taxes as a second job). Wills and Estates in my state are handled through Probate Court and I have had numerous dealings in Probate Court. I work in mental health(my main job, numerous others over the years), and have spent much time in Probate Court with mental cases, as Probate Court also does mental division in my state. My mom worked for 30 plus years in Probate Court, prior to that she worked for 10 years in Circuit Court(family law is here in my state). She worked in the Wills and Estates division, she has taken some college courses and has some certifications, she is not a lawyer. She retired at 72(forced retirement in my state at 72), however she worked for another 8 years part time doing the same job. When she retired at 80 completely, they hired a lawyer to replace her. I'm not a lawyer, never claimed to be on this site or the others I have been on for over 9 years. I have lots more if you want it?
Since we are now being questioned as to our background knowledge, just what is your background for family law?
Nope OP probably does not have a clue to how that money was transferred, but a nice little form filled out to the IRS and it could be checked out.
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OP is pissed off that her ex's parents paid off his house. Based on his parent's wealth, I have no doubt that it was handled by professionals.
Yeah well there are way to many cheaters out there, specially when it comes to paying child support, so I have every doubt that it was handled by an up and up professional. As has been proven often there are many professionals that don't do things on the up and up, many get caught to. The guy does not want to pay for his children, and I will bet my last dollar that mommy and daddy would cheat the system to save their baby boy, I've seen that happen all to often in split situations.
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OP is claiming her ex is out of the job market by choice, but if he's receiving UI, he has to demonstrate that he's actually looking for employment.
He started getting UI in 12/11, doubtful he is still getting it or that he has much time left. Are you serious with that, they look real hard at your job searching, again people cheat that all the time. OP is claiming her ex said he is not going to work, as I said if she has proof he said that, like an email, or a text or phone recording(if she followed rules for recording in her state), well then a Judge is going to weigh that against other things. I'm sorry I left the exact proof off my other post, but this is the proof I was talking about.
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Child support in Illinois is based purely on a percentage of income. The fact that he no longer carries a mortgage is irrelevant. Take a look at the support calculator. The Court already modified support in dad's favor. OP can seek a modification and ask the court to impute wages, but unless she can prove his parents are supporting him in a way that is consistent with the ruling in Rogers, and that does not seem to be the case here, she'll have one hell of a time arguing that paying off his house and buying him a car should be counted as income.
You didn't read what I said, I said a Judge can look at all these gifts of paying off his things, and impute him with the wages he could be earning. Yes the court modified, they often will when someone becomes unemployed. But he has been unemployed for a year and half, he has a house, a car, another family, yet he has no income, so the court can impute him with what he was earning. I never said it would be used as income, read my post, matter of fact I said them paying off his house and buying him a car would not be used for income, but it could be used in convincing the Judge to impute him with what he was earning.
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And unless dad was dumb enough to state in writing that he has no intention of ever working again, she'll have a hell of a time proving he ever said it.
LOL, bet he was dumb enough to state it in writing. I can't tell you how many educated people(more educated then myself), do dumb things in split situations, specially when it comes to child support. They just love to open their mouths to show you just how much smarter they are then you and leave a mile ride road of proof. What a Judge will do with that is anybody's guess, and that was my point to posting on this thread.
Again I never said that the court would count the gifts as income, and I don't recall anyone else in this thread telling her that. I actually before posting did a google search myself on case law and found the same cases you googled on up in your expert searching. Gosh it is not that hard for anyone to google laws up and even if there is no case law, that does not mean you can't attempt to try something out in court. How the heck do you think case law got there to begin with and higher courts have rules different later on or cases taken to them have created changes in how things are done.
I didn't google IL for imputing case law, but I bet there are a bunch of cases of that. We don't know what dad did prior to sitting on his butt having his mommy and daddy supporting himself and not supporting his own kids fully. Maybe his job market has lots of jobs, we don't know that, maybe his job market was hit for a short time and has now bounced back, we don't know that either. One thing I do know, IL has not suffered like some of the other really hard hit states, like my own, and there might be no good reason he does not have a job now earning what he made. Again a Judge has the ability to impute him with what he can earn, and what he was earning, had him paying over a 1000 a month, versus his 300 a month for the last year and a half. Point being these are all things mom will have some knowledge about and can check and see if it is worth it.
You posted what a Judge will do, however you left out that a Judge has other options and that is what I posted. You might not agree, but you have no clue what this Judge will do, neither do I. But I will not let someone think that there is only one possibility here, when there is not.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
Defensive much?
If you used to do taxes professionally, you should know that the gift giver is responsible for filing the appropriate forms and paying any gift taxes, subject to maximum yearly & lifetime exemptions. Or maybe ask your CPA sister.
OP wanted to know if the gifts he received could be considered income and I answered her question based on case law.
The judge already modified his support. I told OP she should return to court for a modification and ask the court to impute wages. If he's still receiving UI, support may or may not be modified. The amount that is imputed is discretionary. They could impute based on minimum wage, prior earnings, or earning ability, and / or deliberate unemployment or underemployment.
Dad paid less than guideline while employed because mom wanted full custody and made a quid pro quo agreement. She states that he is paying the current court ordered amount. Her primary question was whether the money he received from his parents would be considered income for purposes of child support.
I never stated what a judge would do. Nobody can ever predict that with certainty.
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Re: My Ex- Won't Get a Job
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EA1070a
Defensive much?
If you used to do taxes professionally, you should know that the gift giver is responsible for filing the appropriate forms and paying any gift taxes, subject to maximum yearly & lifetime exemptions. Or maybe ask your CPA sister.
OP wanted to know if the gifts he received could be considered income and I answered her question based on case law.
The judge already modified his support. I told OP she should return to court for a modification and ask the court to impute wages. If he's still receiving UI, support may or may not be modified. The amount that is imputed is discretionary. They could impute based on minimum wage, prior earnings, or earning ability, and / or deliberate unemployment or underemployment.
Dad paid less than guideline while employed because mom wanted full custody and made a quid pro quo agreement. She states that he is paying the current court ordered amount. Her primary question was whether the money he received from his parents would be considered income for purposes of child support.
I never stated what a judge would do. Nobody can ever predict that with certainty.
Defensive much, I replied to your post, how is that being defensive. You said I didn't know one thing about Estate Planning or taxes, so I answered where my knowledge came from. I in return asked you if you knew the first thing about Estate planning or taxes and you didn't reply. I didn't tell OP who paid taxes, all I said was OP could fill out a lovely form to the IRS and have this checked out and see if it was done on the up and up. You didn't read my post correctly, so I corrected your mistake on my posting, so others do not take your twisted words on my posting.
I answered the same question and replied the same thing as you that it would not be counted as income. You didn't read my post correctly and went on about how it won't be counted as income, when that is not what I said to begin with. It's not being defensive correcting your reply where you made a mistake of what I said. It's correcting it so the OP or any other that comes along does not think I said it would be counted as income. Your good at twisting peoples words around on here. Yep I am defensive on this part, as I don't take kindly to someone incorrectly posting what I said.
My point was you replied to my post and other people's post and made it pretty clear that it would not happen the way we offered, on top of that you twisted what I said and incorrectly posted what I said. Her primary question was not if the money he received from his parents would be considered income, that question she posted came on page 2.
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EA1070a
Mhmm. Oh, it's coming. Maybe OP won't complain about it here, but the inference is thinly veiled in the tone of the posts.
If the ex is still eligible for and receiving UI and the Court has already reduced support based on the fact that he was laid off, very little is likely to change until he is no longer eligible for UI. At that point she can file a request for modification based on imputed income, but once someone is out of the job market for a long period of time, their earning power is generally significantly decreased.
While answering her not primary question on page 2 of this thread, you then went and added in this lovely Mhmm. Which was garbage by you, as you have no clue what OP was going to do. OP can complain, don't recall it saying in the TOS of this site one can't do that, don't recall it being a crime to complain either. It's good therapy to complain, get it out of your system and not to direct all that built up anger at your ex, which will only harm the children. I'm moving on, cause your just going to keep going with this and it's not serving a good purpose at this point.
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Re: My Ex Has Been Unemployed for a Year and 7 Months. His Parents Are Millionaires
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Antigone
Now, now EA that isn't what the OP wants to hear:rolleyes::p
Apparently OP isn't the only one who doesn't like that answer either. :wallbang: