Master Tenant is Being Evicted and I Was Told I'd Be Evicted, Too
My question involves an eviction in the state of: Pennsylvania (Philadelphia)
I am renting a Section 8 apartment and recently found out it is illegal to sublet a Sec8 apartment. The girl who rents the place to me claimed she had permission from management. A few weeks ago, she decided to raise the rent and when I refused she told me I'd have to move out by the 15. of this month. I figured she didn't have the right to do that, so I went to the management office and they told me it is an illegal sublet and I have to report the master tenant. They told me she will be evicted and that means I will have to move because my name is not on the lease. I have been living here for 4 months now, so I asked if I am not protected by any occupancy laws. In addition to this, management also told me she has the right to come into the apartment, take my things and even try to throw me out. They said all she has to do is call the police or request management to change the locks. I said that sounds a lot like an illegal eviction and the man just said that's the way things go here and he sees it all the time. I asked about the eviction process and he said I will not receive any papers or notices, just that when the Sheriff posts the eviction date, I will have to comply. Is this all really possible? I am eligible for section 8 myself, but am on the wait list. I have two young children, am on welfare and am a victim of domestic violence. I thought there are laws in place to protect women in my situation and that the PHA in particular has to try to help me with safe accommodations and alternatives. Is there any way I can stay in this apartment, sign a new lease with PHA or get them to get me a different unit? I am afraid the girl and her boy friend will retaliate because I reported her. We live on the first floor and not all windows lock. I am afraid for myself and my children.
Thank you very much for reading and for any advice you can give me.
Sincerely,
Rose
Re: Master Tenant is Being Evicted and I Was Told I'd Be Evicted, Too
The local Housing Authority is paying for at least part (or perhaps most) of the rent for this apartment. So the person who rented you the place is making money off of you. This is why subletting is not allowed in Section 8 situations. You have to leave, she will be evicted and she will likely lose her voucher over all of this. And no, since you are still on the waiting list and do not yet have a voucher, you do not have the right to sign a lease with the Philadelphia Housing Authority.
Gail
Re: Master Tenant is Being Evicted and I Was Told I'd Be Evicted, Too
Hi Gail,
thanks for your reply. I understood that I too will have to move, but I would like to know what is the legal procedure in my case. Can she really have the locks changed, come into the apartment and call the police? Even under these circumstances that seems extreme. I should have some rights...
Re: Master Tenant is Being Evicted and I Was Told I'd Be Evicted, Too
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Rosemarch
Hi Gail,
thanks for your reply. I understood that I too will have to move, but I would like to know what is the legal procedure in my case. Can she really have the locks changed, come into the apartment and call the police? Even under these circumstances that seems extreme. I should have some rights...
You probably do but I have no idea what they are. Section 8 has it's own set of rules.
I suggest you contact your local legal aid for help.
Meantime find another place to live. When and if she is evicted (which means being put out on the street by law enforcement) you are likely to be put out, too.
Re: Master Tenant is Being Evicted and I Was Told I'd Be Evicted, Too
Hi Adjusterjack,
thanks for your input. I am going to Community legal services on Tuesday, when they take walk-ins. I just want to be as well informed as possible. I read the PHA and sec 8 laws and they can make certain decisions about the eviction at their discretion, so I am at least hoping they can help me find other housing, since I am eligible the circumstances can be considered a hard ship.
Thanks again to everyone and if anyone can add anymore information I'd really appreciate it.
Have a nice weekend!
Rose
Re: Master Tenant is Being Evicted and I Was Told I'd Be Evicted, Too
Your agreement with the girl you rent from is likely covered by the PA landlord tenant statute so she would be limited to what she could do to you.
http://www.thelpa.com/PA_landlord_tenant_act.pdf
Which doesn't mean she CAN'T lock you out and take your stuff. It only means that you would have legal remedies against her if she does. Which doesn't really help you much after you've been kicked out.
The statute requires her to give you 15 days notice of termination of your tenancy. See Section 250.501 (b).
That covers her relationship with you.
Unfortunately, the statute also says:
Section 250.105. Sublessees
Any person who is a sublessee shall be subject to the provisions of the lease between the lessor and the lessee.
That means that, if she is in non-compliance with her Section 8 lease requirements, you are also in non-compliance and she and you can be evicted together.
And, since she is in non-compliance, it appears that her landlord need give her (and you) the same 15 days notice of termination of tenancy.
In either case, once the 15 days are up, she can file for eviction against you or her landlord can file for eviction against both of you.
Re: Master Tenant is Being Evicted and I Was Told I'd Be Evicted, Too
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adjusterjack
And, since she is in non-compliance, it appears that her landlord need give her (and you) the same 15 days notice of termination of tenancy.
If this were an authorized subtenancy, then the subtenant ordinarily should be given notice by the master tenant's landlord. But it's not, so it does not automatically follow from the relationship between the master tenant and subtenant that the master tenant's landlord has any duty to give notice to the subtenant, any more than they would have to give notice to a house guest or other occupant not on the lease.
Re: Master Tenant is Being Evicted and I Was Told I'd Be Evicted, Too
Thanks a lot for all your answers and the link! It's really nice of you to help people out like this.
Thanks again,
Rose
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I am wondering if I would have been better off just not paying the extra rent and seeing what she does, as I doubt she wants to lose this lease.
Re: Master Tenant is Being Evicted and I Was Told I'd Be Evicted, Too
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Mr. Knowitall
If this were an authorized subtenancy, then the subtenant ordinarily should be given notice by the master tenant's landlord. But it's not, so it does not automatically follow from the relationship between the master tenant and subtenant that the master tenant's landlord has any duty to give notice to the subtenant, any more than they would have to give notice to a house guest or other occupant not on the lease.
Except that, whether it's an authorized subtenancy or not, an eviction court would required that all occupants be named and served before the eviction can proceed.
Re: Master Tenant is Being Evicted and I Was Told I'd Be Evicted, Too
Hi again,
the girl came to me today, asking me to retract my report, claiming I made a false report because we had an argument. Management was at lunch at the time, but she said she will be back later and I will have to go there with her and state I don't pay rent and I only stay here sometimes. Should I do this? I really need to know as soon as possible, so any input is appreciated.
Thanks and have a nice day,
Lisa
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In addition I am wondering if they might make her add me to the lease, if I retract. If I let it go to eviction will I have any possibility to file a grievance or appeal? And what if she decides to harass me right after I retract my report? Then management will likely not believe me if I do file another report, or will they? I am really confused right now... I am so uncertain what to do. I really just don't want any problems and NEED a cheap place to live, I can barely afford what I pay here.
Re: Master Tenant is Being Evicted and I Was Told I'd Be Evicted, Too
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Rosemarch
Hi again,
the girl came to me today, asking me to retract my report, claiming I made a false report because we had an argument. Management was at lunch at the time, but she said she will be back later and I will have to go there with her and state I don't pay rent and I only stay here sometimes.
I wouldn't.
Start adding lying to management to your existing problems and they are only bound to get worse.
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Rosemarch
In addition I am wondering if they might make her add me to the lease, if I retract.
I'm not clairvoyant. I can't predict the future. If I could I'd be out making money at the racetrack.
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Rosemarch
If I let it go to eviction will I have any possibility to file a grievance or appeal?
There's generally an appeal process for any court proceeding. But if you cannot raise a valid defense during the eviction action, an appeal won't do you any good. As for grievance, there isn't any government agency that will care.
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Rosemarch
And what if she decides to harass me right after I retract my report? Then management will likely not believe me if I do file another report, or will they?
Again, there's no way anybody can answer your "what if" questions.
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Rosemarch
I really just don't want any problems and NEED a cheap place to live, I can barely afford what I pay here.
People always have reasons for staying in bad situations, bad roommate situations, bad marriages, bad business relationships, etc.
Bottom line is: You do what you have to do and you play the cards that you get dealt, win or lose. If you lose, you get on with your life and learn from the experience.
Re: Master Tenant is Being Evicted and I Was Told I'd Be Evicted, Too
Hi Adjusterjack,
Thanks for your quick reply and the advice!
Will take it all into consideration.
Have a great day!
Rose
Re: Master Tenant is Being Evicted and I Was Told I'd Be Evicted, Too
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adjusterjack
Except that, whether it's an authorized subtenancy or not, an eviction court would required that all occupants be named and served before the eviction can proceed.
That's extremely unlikely, but if you have authority for that position, please share it.