Obtaining Joint Physical and Legal Custody

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Quoting Dogmatique

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The reality is that she's already the primary caregiver. The courts don't like to mess with the status quo without having a darned good reason for doing so. Whether or not I personally agree with it, being unwed puts the father at a distinct disadvantage for reasons discussed earlier.

It's basically the era of "status quo".

Then you need to be prepared for a long distance parenting plan and for at least the short term, you should expect visitation to take place in Mom's community.

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I see what you are saying -- perhaps I'm a little charged up over the "status quo" and I have become well acquainted with the fact courts much rather handle the monetary situation than the actual custody! And seemingly attempt to scare off any would be involved fathers through hefty fees :)

From your perspective and knowledge, what am I left with? Would you think I'm destined to become one of those once a month-every-other-christmas "fathers"? The kind who the mom points at and says "This is your father, Billy, now say goodbye." And I drive off waiting until the next month? Sending a check in the mail.

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Quoting eagerdada

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I see what you are saying -- perhaps I'm a little charged up over the "status quo" and I have become well acquainted with the fact courts much rather handle the monetary situation than the actual custody! And seemingly attempt to scare off any would be involved fathers through hefty fees :)

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Thankfully the vast majority of states are doing away with the concept of "tender years doctrine". To me, there's absolutely no reason why a father can't have custody from the get-go. And, it's happening more and more frequently.

I do though have to agree with the concept of status quo. If a child is settled with one parent being the primary caregiver, it should honestly take a change in circumstance for that to change.

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From your perspective and knowledge, what am I left with? Would you think I'm destined to become one of those once a month-every-other-christmas "fathers"? The kind who the mom points at and says "This is your father, Billy, now say goodbye." And I drive off waiting until the next month? Sending a check in the mail.

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5 hours away is going to present an issue. You're never going to get a 50/50 placement with that distance between you. Even every other weekend is going to be difficult at that distance.

Is there ANY way you can move closer to Mom?

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Thankfully the vast majority of states are doing away with the concept of "tender years doctrine". To me, there's absolutely no reason why a father can't have custody from the get-go. And, it's happening more and more frequently.

I do though have to agree with the concept of status quo. If a child is settled with one parent being the primary caregiver, it should honestly take a change in circumstance for that to change.



5 hours away is going to present an issue. You're never going to get a 50/50 placement with that distance between you. Even every other weekend is going to be difficult at that distance.

Is there ANY way you can move closer to Mom?

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Not in my present circumstances. She herself is on welfare and pretty much every other gov. aid issued -- as well as being tethered to the ground like an unruly dog outside his kennel.

Do you think there is little chance of me acquiring primary custody? If the 50/50 (or close to it) does not seem in the least bit viable.

I'm not wanting to drag anybody through the mud, but if it came down to obtaining custody of my son I might have to play a little rough. Whether these have any relevance or not, I'm not sure. The mother has a history of mental illness, suicide attempts, alcohol poisoning visits to the ER, among a laundry list of other red flag indicators (another thing I disregarded...). I also have no idea if she's done these acts in recent time as I have not been with her for quite a spell.

At the end of the day I want to play a substantial role in my son's life, however that is possible. At this point are you essentially saying "Oh mother has custody, you're f***ed"?

Ugh. You're not going to like this.

If these things were really an important issue, you would have been in touch with child services already - right? (That's how the court is going to look at it). If they're not important enough/dangerous enough to involve child services, you can't very well use them against her.

You're not just asking for primary - you're asking to relocate the child away from his home state. The court is going to need to see some serious evidence that it's not only in his best interest to be removed from his primary caregiver, but also that relocating him so far away is in his best interest.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Ugh. You're not going to like this.

If these things were really an important issue, you would have been in touch with child services already - right? (That's how the court is going to look at it). If they're not important enough/dangerous enough to involve child services, you can't very well use them against her.

You're not just asking for primary - you're asking to relocate the child away from his home state. The court is going to need to see some serious evidence that it's not only in his best interest to be removed from his primary caregiver, but also that relocating him so far away is in his best interest.

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That makes sense (for the safety reasons). But then again I have no contact with him so I have no idea how she acts.

Is there an age where it is seen as more viable to relocate the child? He's about 7 months old now.

At the end of the day, what am I looking at here? Am I another statistic screwed over by the circumstance? If so, it seems I lost this battle before he was even born simply by way of being the father and not the mother.

Let's back up a sec.

The reason that you're at a disadvantage has nothing to do with you being male. It's got EVERYTHING to do with being unmarried to the mother of your child.

That aside though - have you met the child? How often have you seen him in the past 7 months?

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(Despite what someone else mentioned, divorce is NOT the same as being unwed...)

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Let's back up a sec.

The reason that you're at a disadvantage has nothing to do with you being male. It's got EVERYTHING to do with being unmarried to the mother of your child.

That aside though - have you met the child? How often have you seen him in the past 7 months?

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(Despite what someone else mentioned, divorce is NOT the same as being unwed...)

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Yes, perhaps ostensibly it has nothing to with me being male, yet the fact remains an unwed mother automatically assumes 100% custody just by giving birth. And for me? I only recently got back the results of the DNA test.

I've not seen him at all (aside from a few pictures) -- as I am being denied access by the mom. I wasn't even informed of his birth until some time after it occurred.

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Quoting eagerdada

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Yes, perhaps ostensibly it has nothing to with me being male, yet the fact remains an unwed mother automatically assumes 100% custody just by giving birth.

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That's correct. Even in this day and age, if you want equal rights from the get-go you need to marry the mother of your children before you actually have 'em.

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And for me? I only recently got back the results of the DNA test.

I've not seen him at all (aside from a few pictures) -- as I am being denied access by the mom. I wasn't even informed of his birth until some time after it occurred.

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Think of me as playing Devil's Advocate for a sec.

Why on earth would it be in his best interest to be removed from his only active parent and placed with someone who is actually a stranger?

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Quoting Dogmatique

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That's correct. Even in this day and age, if you want equal rights from the get-go you need to marry the mother of your children before you actually have 'em.



Think of me as playing Devil's Advocate for a sec.

Why on earth would it be in his best interest to be removed from his only active parent and placed with someone who is actually a stranger?

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Yes, that's good Dog! Now you've got give me some legs to stand on!

What can my case be? Cite some statistics purporting the positive influence and substantial development needs a father provides for his children, and the horrors of going through life fatherless? And they can state the same for a motherless home. I honestly wouldn't want him removed from either parent. I do think they should have substantial contact with both. But as things stand, what are my options? Fight for sole/primary custody or hope to be allowed some visitations every few months?

At the heart I'm really debating the principle of the system. It's a woman's world in this regard and I don't think it should be. For what good that does me. Maybe some high hopes to one day change the process and public views.

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From a legal stand point: I am considered his father and for whatever reason not entitled to 50% of the custody because we were not married... Am I only rambling in the courtroom if I bring up the point of equal opportunity and equal chance to raise my son, which is technically equally both of ours? (cue King Solomon story...) I've been denied the opportunity from the get go.

The courts already recognize that both parents (assuming one isn't Charles Manson/Aileen Wournos) are vital parts of their children's lives.

But they also recognize that when the parents are not together, 50/50 placement rarely works unless a) the parents are geographically close to each other and b) able to work together and present a very strong united front.

You honestly don't have much (if any) hope at primary at this point. But you've got to remember that custody is ALWAYS fluid. It can always change if the situation changes. So just because Mom is currently primary doesn't necessarily mean she'll ALWAYS be primary!

Have you been over to deltabravo.net yet? Get thee there immediately :)

In the meantime yes, you're looking at seeing the child in Mom's community whenever the parenting time is set (which could depend heavily on how often you're able to visit).