My Husband Was Charged With Domestic Violence

My question involves criminal law for the state of: California
My husband and I got into an argument the other morning. He threw his jacket at me twice (and missed at close range). I pushed him. He pushed me. I fell down( because I'm clumsy and I was actually sitting on the bed when pushed). I threw a can at him and he pushed me onto the bed again and got on top of me and threatened to hit me in the face because I was hitting him(but didn't) and I kicked him off. He then got up and I pushed him again and he pushed me to the other side of the bed and my robe got stuck under me and I fell and hurt my arm on the side of the bed.
Well the neighbors called the police. He had already left for work by the time they came and because I fell off the side of the bed I had a bruise on my arm which the photographed vigorously. I will say now that this entire month I was already sick and experiencing back and stomach pain which was already causing me problems the morning of the altercation. Well I was taken to the police station and I still didn't feel good and wanted to leave and before I could even get questioned the detective came i and immediately upon meeting me( like two seconds) said I really think you should go to the hospital. And not thinking it was gonna make matters worse and because I was sick I said ok after refusing several times. Well this fool calls the paramedics and says I was in a domestic disturbance and I'm experiencing back pain.
Well when I got to the hospital I told the nurses that I was already sick the whole past week but my new doctor told me to have my old records faxed before she would make a diagnoses. Well after waiting in the hospital for hours and not being helped physically just given three different meds and constantly being awakened and questioned I Finally was taken to the PD only to find out my husband had been arrested and charged with PC 273 and PC 236. And also that an Emergency Protective Order had been put in place. Wtf. So I asked the detective why and he said "to protect our butts". Wtf!!
Well I went home after 12 hours and read this EPO crap only to find that the detective had falsified my statements and said that I was hit with the jacket and also that my husband punched me and pinned me down which never happened!!! So I called him and he was like I have to talk to the DA and its outta his hands. Well I called the DA yesterday(2 days after incident) and they still don't have the case. What can I do?? I know my husband needs a lawyer but I can't contact him. And the victim advocate is only good for giving me a ride to work since my husband(who was bailed outta jail) has the car and since we just moved here I don't have any friends or family to help. I know what happened was still wrong but we love each other like crazy and we were planning to go on vacation like today but now our family and his government career is in jeopardy. I told the detectives and family advocate that I do not feel endangered and that I don't want to file a new restraining order like they are harassing me to do. Will that count for anything??
My husband is a very good man and this was both of us just being young angry and stupid. We don't have any friends here so if we are mad the on,y break we have is work and work is also frustrating. No excuses though I know it was stupid. But what can I do? I plan to call the DA but from all my research that seems like a long shot to get charges dropped? Is there ANYTHING we can do? There are Real victims out there that need this "help" and I am not one of them!! I feel like the detective took advantage of the fact I have been sick already and thought since I was "the victim" I wouldn't mind him fabricating his report.
Also my husband is over 200lbs of pure muscle, a former football player, and a trained fighter. If he was really mad and really trying to hurt me I could be dead obviously.

Hire him a lawyer fast!!!

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Quoting BriLu

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Also my husband is over 200lbs of pure muscle, a former football player, and a trained fighter. If he was really mad and really trying to hurt me I could be dead obviously.

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This is, unfortunately, a classic sign of abuse.

Hon, you're rationalizing.

You need counseling.

We cannot guess whether or not the charges will be dropped.

Actually, it sounded to me like they both have anger issues.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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This is, unfortunately, a classic sign of abuse.

Hon, you're rationalizing.

You need counseling.

We cannot guess whether or not the charges will be dropped.

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I'm not rationalizing I was giving you a picture of him in your head. But also I've been at home alone with no contact from anyone but police and the mentally challenged (no joke) family advocate that was assigned to me who just called me and asked if I wanted to go see a movie. Sooo....basically I had had PLENTY of time to think and explain what happened for legal advise and so I have been asked several times for a description of my husband. And the only reason I will admit I need counseling is for anger management because as I was writing this post I realized that most of the attacking was done by me, unfortunately. But there is a lot more to this that I think will help the case but I don't want to "self-identify" because idk who reads this.

- - - Updated - - -

So really no one has any advise? I feel like a lot of underhanded stuff went on in this case but like I said I don't want to self-identify because if anyone else involved is on here they will automatically know I'm talking about them if I give more info. But since I do feel like I was somewhat dooped by the detectives is there anyway I can make a complaint or get another investigation?

We're volunteers here - and it's the weekend.

No, you have no reason to request another investigation. If you feel like the detective lied, you can make a report to the local police.

But seriously - the state has no incentive to drop the charges.

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Quoting BriLu

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My husband and I got into an argument the other morning. He threw his jacket at me twice (and missed at close range).

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That was assault on his part. In other words, he started it. He was what we call, "the primary aggressor."

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I pushed him. He pushed me. I fell down( because I'm clumsy and I was actually sitting on the bed when pushed). I threw a can at him and he pushed me onto the bed again and got on top of me and threatened to hit me in the face because I was hitting him(but didn't) and I kicked him off. He then got up and I pushed him again and he pushed me to the other side of the bed and my robe got stuck under me and I fell and hurt my arm on the side of the bed.

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Maybe you should both have been arrested. But, since this is discouraged, his actions still appear to make him the primary aggressor.

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Well the neighbors called the police. He had already left for work by the time they came and because I fell off the side of the bed I had a bruise on my arm which the photographed vigorously.

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Which gives them probably cause for them to charge him with a felony.

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my husband had been arrested and charged with PC 273 and PC 236. And also that an Emergency Protective Order had been put in place.

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Thats not a surprise. He battered you and inflicted injury (PC 273.5), held you down (false imprisonment, PC 236), and to provide you an opportunity to get to safety and get assistance, an EPO was requested and issued. In a week, if you don't get a new one and the court does not issue a pre-trial CPO, then the EPO will expire.

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I know what happened was still wrong but we love each other like crazy

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Being in love does not prevent violence. Many people commit violence in the name of love. What you describe is NOT healthy and requires intervention. At the very least he - and you - need therapy to address the issues this incident raises.

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My husband is a very good man

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Good men make mistakes, and even a good man can use counseling from time to time.

Typically, these are pled out to counseling and a peaceful contact protective order on the first offense.

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Quoting cdwjava

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That was assault on his part. In other words, he started it. He was what we call, "the primary aggressor."

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In what galaxy do you live where throwing a harmless object constitutes assault?

California PC240: 240. An assault is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a present
ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another.

Throwing a jacket is not an attempt to commit a violent injury upon someone. I would say pushing someone onto a soft bed is not an attempt to violently injure someone either, but I'm not an advocate of pushing and shoving in a relationship. They are however both guilty of physical aggression and calling him the primary aggressor sounds like typical "the woman is automatically the victim and the man is automatically the abuser" rhetoric. In the eyes of the law though, because she doesn't have the "present ability" to commit a violent injury, she can push him and it's nothing, but he pushes her back and he goes to jail.

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Quoting cdwjava

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What you describe is NOT healthy and requires intervention.

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Of course it's not healthy, but requiring intervention is debatable. Everyone always expects someone else to fix their problems. No one wants to accept personal responsibility for their own welfare. She could have sought counseling on her own or excused herself from the relationship. Instead now their relationship is subject to the whims of whatever the authorities think is the best course of action, not what either of them would have wanted, or what would be best for their relationship or them as individuals. He's now facing at least one felony.

273.5. (a) Any person who willfully inflicts upon a person who is
his or her spouse, former spouse, cohabitant, former cohabitant, or
the mother or father of his or her child, corporal injury resulting
in a traumatic condition is guilty of a felony, and upon conviction
thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for
two, three, or four years, or in a county jail for not more than one
year, or by a fine of up to six thousand dollars ($6,000) or by both
that fine and imprisonment.
(b) Holding oneself out to be the husband or wife of the person
with whom one is cohabiting is not necessary to constitute
cohabitation as the term is used in this section.
(c) As used in this section, "traumatic condition" means a
condition of the body, such as a wound, or external or internal
injury, including, but not limited to, injury as a result of
strangulation or suffocation, whether of a minor or serious nature,
caused by a physical force. For purposes of this section,
"strangulation" and "suffocation" include impeding the normal
breathing or circulation of the blood of a person by applying
pressure on the throat or neck.

I'm not sure if the pc236 is a felony, since almost the entire statue is addressing human trafficking which carries enormous sentences and is definitely a felony. Since they are stretching that to cover holding someone down, i don't know what the sentencing for that could be. 1 felony is more than enough to ruin a marriage though. If convicted he will almost certainly serve a sentence in the state penitentiary. He will lose his job and probably his whole career, and have a felony on his record making it difficult to get work in the future. He will also have social stigma and be informally thought of as a wife beater by anyone who finds out.
What effect do you think that might have on the marriage? I can tell you years of bitterness isn't any good for a marriage.


Basically if she didn't want her husband in prison, she never should have spoken with the police when they knocked on the door. Now that she gave them all the evidence they needed to go after her husband. It is out of her hands now. She can file an official complaint with the police department stating that things were not properly explained to her, and her testimony was falsified, and she can tell the truth when on the stand while she watches the prosecutor attempt to make her husband look like the worst human being that's ever walked the face of the earth and send him to jail. Those are the options.

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Quoting Jared_A

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In what galaxy do you live where throwing a harmless object constitutes assault?

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I didn't say it would be charged, but it would likely be the precipitating event that demonstrates the thrower as the aggressor. Even words can be sufficient to show that.

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I would say pushing someone onto a soft bed is not an attempt to violently injure someone either,

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Then yu'd be wrong. In CA that would constitute battery per PC 242 (or, if DV, PC 243(e)).

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They are however both guilty of physical aggression and calling him the primary aggressor sounds like typical "the woman is automatically the victim and the man is automatically the abuser" rhetoric.

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Call it whatever you want, I'm simply saying how the police will likely call it. Since they are essentially mandated to arrest one of the parties if a battery occurred, the law says they determine the party who is the "dominant aggressor" (PC 13700 et seq.) Officers are discouraged from arresting both parties, though it can and does happen. And, the DA can do whatever he or she chooses to do. The arrest does not automatically mean that the DA will pursue charges, though it is very likely in a case where you have any documented injury such as in this case. In some counties the DA's office has a policy that they WILL pursue DV allegations.

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Of course it's not healthy, but requiring intervention is debatable.

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History has shown that NO intervention often results in repeat offenses that tend to get more violent. That is why discretion has been largely removed from he police and, to some extent, from the remainder of the CJ system.

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Everyone always expects someone else to fix their problems. No one wants to accept personal responsibility for their own welfare.

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I agree. The problem is, this apparently did not happen earlier. I'd venture to guess that there have been previous incidents that hinted to either his (or their) violent nature, or, the nature of a dysfunctional relationship. It is rare that the FIRST incident blows up like this one did. The time to take the initiative and act would have been earlier. When it blows up and becomes so violent that the neighbor calls the police, it's a little late for self-initiated restraint.

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273.5. (a) Any person who willfully inflicts upon a person who is
his or her spouse, former spouse, cohabitant, former cohabitant, or
the mother or father of his or her child, corporal injury resulting
in a traumatic condition is guilty of a felony, and upon conviction
thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for
two, three, or four years, or in a county jail for not more than one
year, or by a fine of up to six thousand dollars ($6,000) or by both
that fine and imprisonment.
(b) Holding oneself out to be the husband or wife of the person
with whom one is cohabiting is not necessary to constitute
cohabitation as the term is used in this section.
(c) As used in this section, "traumatic condition" means a
condition of the body, such as a wound, or external or internal
injury, including, but not limited to, injury as a result of
strangulation or suffocation, whether of a minor or serious nature,
caused by a physical force. For purposes of this section,
"strangulation" and "suffocation" include impeding the normal
breathing or circulation of the blood of a person by applying
pressure on the throat or neck.

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It's a "wobbler" in that it can be charged as either a felony or a misdemeanor. The police will most often book for the felony, and the DA can drop it. As I previously mentioned, the most often disposition is a plea to counseling an a peaceful contact CPO - and, probation.

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I'm not sure if the pc236 is a felony,

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It is also a wobbler.

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What effect do you think that might have on the marriage? I can tell you years of bitterness isn't any good for a marriage.

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The violent acts already had an affect on the marriage. HIS actions - and hers - have already taken a toll. To blame the damage on the system is to understate the violent acts that created the situation.

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She can file an official complaint with the police department stating that things were not properly explained to her, and her testimony was falsified, and she can tell the truth when on the stand while she watches the prosecutor attempt to make her husband look like the worst human being that's ever walked the face of the earth and send him to jail. Those are the options.

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There are more options than that. And if she is going to do anything that might tend to indicate that she lied or provided false information could lane her in legal jeopardy - hence the suggestion she speak with an attorney.

Serious advise. Hire him a lawyer. Both of you seek anger counseling and submit a letter from your counselors about your progress. Request his lawyer use the counseling by both of you in an attempt to reduce the charges.

Carl, you show remarkable restraint.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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Carl, you show remarkable restraint.

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I have 21 1/2 years on the job, and counting ... and I have four teenage sons! ;)

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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Carl, you show remarkable restraint.

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It's not like I'm the only one who doesn't trust the system a great deal, but I should point out that I'm not questioning officers(law enforcement) like him, I'm questioning the way the judicial system itself handles things. It feels like it does more harm than good a large portion of the time and there are many examples of how the system has gone from being biased towards women to be biased towards men.

You are more than likely correct that this problem has manifested itself many times in the past, with growing severity. Sometimes though it takes a bit of a shock to get both parties to realize they have a problem that needs to be addressed. Instead of a shock though her husband is facing having his entire life ruined. If he gets a felony he'll be fortunate to get a job digging ditches, all because of an event that resulted in no serious injuries.

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Quoting Jared_A

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all because of an event that resulted in no serious injuries.

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I'm sure you don't mean what you're implying here.

Surely?

Good point Jared. The problem is where do you draw the line? How do you read minds to know which cases should be prosecuted and which should be dropped? Remember, the one you drop today, might be a murder tomorrow.

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Quoting Jared_A

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It's not like I'm the only one who doesn't trust the system a great deal, but I should point out that I'm not questioning officers(law enforcement) like him, I'm questioning the way the judicial system itself handles things. It feels like it does more harm than good a large portion of the time and there are many examples of how the system has gone from being biased towards women to be biased towards men.

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The price of inaction was greater harm. Experience has also shown that when too much discretion has been permitted to law enforcement and even to the courts, in many instances, that the violence was permitted to continue. To rectify this, the "system" removed some of the discretion. Had there not been harm done by the inaction of previous times, this may not have been necessary. And, as we bring more resources to bear in the preventative arena, perhaps the heavy-handed tactics of the legal hammer will not be necessary. Unfortunately, it is the legal hammer that tends to have the greatest effect on the abuser for a great number of reasons too involved to go into here.

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You are more than likely correct that this problem has manifested itself many times in the past, with growing severity. Sometimes though it takes a bit of a shock to get both parties to realize they have a problem that needs to be addressed.

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And this may well be that shock.

Sometimes it is the fear of losing a child or children that shocks a couple into action - or, at least one of them. A woman who insists on protecting her abuse and continues to be a human punching bag might finally wake up when CPS and the police remove her children or threaten to do so unless she acts to protect herself and, by extension, the children.

We all have our tipping points that cause us to wake up from self-destructive behavior. Unfortunately, for some it takes a near death experience.

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Instead of a shock though her husband is facing having his entire life ruined. If he gets a felony he'll be fortunate to get a job digging ditches, all because of an event that resulted in no serious injuries.

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It is doubtful that he will suffer such dire consequences on a first offense. Unless he denies the harmfulness of his actions, chances are this can be put behind him with time, counseling, and following the straight and narrow. Assuming this IS a one time only deal and an anomaly, this will be all but forgotten in a couple of years. Statistically, he will re-offend if given the chance ... but, i am ever the optimist and hope he will learn from it.

I know a great many people who have moved on and become successful after serious DV felonies - even with jail time. It's not a death sentence unless one chooses not to learn from it. If he smells the coffee, he'll be okay. If he refuses to acknowledge his role in the incident and the harm he caused, he might very well doom himself by his own actions or inactions. If his victim chooses to be an accomplice in this, then he may be doubly doomed and may take her down with him. Sadly, I have seen this all too often.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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I'm sure you don't mean what you're implying here.

Surely?

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Oh i'm quite sure you've already dreamed up all sorts of things that I mean or am implying.

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Quoting Jared_A

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Oh i'm quite sure you've already dreamed up all sorts of things that I mean or am implying.

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I'm trying to clarify - you can dump the 'tude, dude.

You seemed to be implying that unless serious injuries are involved, a felony should be out of the question.

Is that correct?

No there have NOT been "previous incidents" yes we do argue a great deal but that's not against the law and usually one of us goes and sulks in the guest room until we calm down. Unfortunately that didn't happen this time but like Jared I don't understand how pushing me on the bed is a felony. I get pushed on the bed when were about to have sex and so do millions of people for that matter. It's really messed up. I know that this happened to protect me but I feel like my life is being ruined all because of a stupid selfish stress-caused mistake. And the neighbors had already been harassing us every chance they got. They even called the SPCA last week and said I was starving my dog and I leave him at home all day until after five thirty. Which is a huge lie because my dog is very healthy and I've only been working for three weeks and everyday I get off at 1:45 and go straight home and then pick up my husband and take my dog with me most days. They are just racists and that is the opinion of police we told about it not us.

@ cdwjava

Thank you for your well worded replies. Hopefully things turn out on the optimistic side you seem to be on. I'm a pessimist if you can't tell. I just don't see a lot of good coming out of this situation. If he has to stay in jail until the first hearing he will lose whatever government job she is talking about with little chance of ever getting it back. So even if they get counseling and work on their marriage, they're both going to suffer from the lost income. Depending on circumstances we don't know about, could have a light or very severe impact on them both. I just don't see them looking back 5 years from now and going, "gee i sure am glad the government stepped in and managed our marriage for us." The alternative would be no intervention which could've lead to increasing abuse until something really bad happens. Which as you said the statistics show it usually does continue. Nobody really knows which way they'd be better off. I think I'm becoming a libertarian, I generally think people need to take more personal responsibility.

Because of all of this "help" I haven't had more than three hours of sleep each night for the past week. I feel even more sick than I did before all of this occurred. I am stuck in the house all day because I can't contact my husband to get the car and if he contacts me he will go to jail. My husband might lose his job. I might lose my job from being late and not having a ride on time. (They've already been bitching). My husband probably thinks I lied on him or something because of the souped up EPO statement police wrote. And the advocate I was assigned I promise you has special needs and I honestly feel that I wasn't explained my rights correctly if I can say at all. This is just some BULL. And I know that there is really some poor victim getting abused out there and some evil villain doing the abusing that really need this help but my husband and I are not those people at all!

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Quoting Dogmatique

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I'm trying to clarify - you can dump the 'tude, dude.

You seemed to be implying that unless serious injuries are involved, a felony should be out of the question.

Is that correct?

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What I think, in general, is that the punishment should match the severity of the crime, and the intent of the individual. For instance even if you fail, if you intend to kill someone, attempted murder is a serious crime. If you are angry and push someone with no intent to cause them serious harm, but they trip and hit their head and die, you have little or not intent to cause harm, but you still have to take responsibility for the person's death. Well what happens if there was(as far as any of us can tell) no intent to cause serious harm, and no serious harm was caused. Is that really a situation where the government needs to fast rope in from helicopters and take over the situation? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I tent to favor "isn't."

Thank you for the clarification of what you meant.

If you guys could please stop being weird and take a look at my new post I would really appreciate it. I did not mean for anyone to argue/ debate over my problems but I really do need help with this! Thanks guys!

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Quoting BriLu

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No there have NOT been "previous incidents" yes we do argue a great deal but that's not against the law

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No, arguing is not against the law. But, I suspect that an outsider looking in would have been able to see that there was a problem. Since the two of you chose not to act on what was likely apparent - had you chosen to see it - you now have to deal with the legal ramifications.

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Unfortunately that didn't happen this time but like Jared I don't understand how pushing me on the bed is a felony.

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The push wasn't the felony - the visible injury was.

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I get pushed on the bed when were about to have sex and so do millions of people for that matter.

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That's not unwanted. Though, I suppose you can try to convince a DA or a jury that your actions and injury were a prelude to a sexual act which never occurred ...

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I know that this happened to protect me but I feel like my life is being ruined all because of a stupid selfish stress-caused mistake.

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Starting with him. Don't compound it by denying that there is a problem. If you do, and you allow this to continue, then it will only get worse. These things almost inevitably spiral downward.

- - - Updated - - -

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Quoting Jared_A

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If he has to stay in jail until the first hearing he will lose whatever government job she is talking about with little chance of ever getting it back.

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That depends on the job ... and whether or not he can get bail or O/R.

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So even if they get counseling and work on their marriage, they're both going to suffer from the lost income.

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The time to consider the consequences of an act is BEFORE committing it. The government did not create this situation - the defendant did. Or, if you want to share the blame, they both did. And, because their actions ventured outside the private realm, the government was forced to step in.

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I think I'm becoming a libertarian, I generally think people need to take more personal responsibility.

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It's a pity we live in a culture where everything is everyone else's fault. Take this thread, for example ...

Ok so I just called the DA office and spoke to an advocate and she said the charges were already filed but reduced to misdemeanor instead of felony. I wonder why when I called last week I was told the case was not there yet? I called Friday and the office just opened today which is Monday. Strange. I told her all of the things surrounding the case and she also felt that it wasn't handled properly but unfortunately since I was told Friday that they hadn't received the case and the DA already moved forward, she said she was only able to make notes and told me to just make sure I make a statement in court.

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Quoting BriLu

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Ok so I just called the DA office and spoke to an advocate and she said the charges were already filed but reduced to misdemeanor instead of felony. I wonder why when I called last week I was told the case was not there yet?

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Because cases don't magically materialize on the DA's desk. They have to be written and approved before being sent to the DA's office. Since he was in custody and there was the potential for arraignment within 48 hours (two business days) the agency likely had it to the DA's office within two days (four if over the weekend). If your husband was released on his own recognizance or made bail, then there would have been no rush to process the papers as arraignment would have been put off.

If the charges have been reduced to misdemeanors it is likely that they intend to offer him a plea deal - likely probation, anger management counseling, and maybe a CPO that requires him to "play nice" (i.e. no more violence).

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I told her all of the things surrounding the case and she also felt that it wasn't handled properly

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Clearly the advocate does not know police procedure or the law. She is free to her opinion, but it's likely wrong.

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old me to just make sure I make a statement in court.

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Did she also tell you that if you intend to make statements that contradict the police report you should speak with your own criminal defense attorney? Remember, the advocate is NOT an attorney. Advising you to make statements that could land you in legal jeopardy is not a good idea and I don't know any advocate that would do so ... I suppose you did not tell her that you intended to contradict the police report?

Ok but I also know he should not plea anything because that would be a conviction right? And sir I called them Friday twice once in the morning and again in the afternoon and then this morning as soon as they opened. That's why I said it was strange. And yes I told her that I felt the officer exaggerated the report too. This is so frustrating I feel like I personally just need an attorney just to keep me informed of the case and my own rights because apparently all I've been receiving is false information from people I thought were supposed to help me. And I was also told by an attorney that I DO still have time to convince the DA to drop and that they can drop at anytime before and during the case. She told me I should just write a statement and give it to the DA saying (something like) I do not wish for my husband to be prosecuted and that I'm not in any danger. But I am not sure what that will do and she is not even from this state but she said no matter what state I'm in I do not have to testify against my husband which I already knew but I also know and tried to tell her that since so many Real Endangered victims say that ( because they may be scared or intimidated) that it may not really help but she was adamant about doing that and that only. What do you think? Because yes I know my husband and I have issues because we have arguments and we did push each other but I honestly don't feel like someone deserves to be sent to jail or convicted of DV because they pushed their wife on the bed. And I'm positive that parents don't raise their kids I fear saying omg do not push each other because one day you might go to jail and lose your job. No your parents tell you don't hit girls. And don't push your brother cause its not nice. But I can guaranDAMNtee you after all this BS I won't even push a damn elevator button and its not taking me going to jail to decide that!

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Quoting BriLu

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Ok but I also know he should not plea anything because that would be a conviction right?

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That is between him and his attorney. A plea deal to probation and counseling might be better than a conviction at trial that leads to jail time, probation, and counseling. And the plea might result in diversion if such a thing is available where you are (a diversion would be no permanent record).

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And I was also told by an attorney that I DO still have time to convince the DA to drop and that they can drop at anytime before and during the case.

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Of course the DA CAN drop a case ... they just may have little inclination to do so. And some DAs offices have aggressive prosecution policies for DV.

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She told me I should just write a statement and give it to the DA saying (something like) I do not wish for my husband to be prosecuted and that I'm not in any danger.

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Some DAs will accept that, and some have forms they fill out which essentially says that you agree not to hold the DA, the police, or anyone responsible for any future acts of violence upon you ... and they know that future violence is almost a given without intervention. The problem is that such a statement also serves to weaken the victim's resolve to pursue future action when violence does occur because the victim believes that no one will believe her (a concern often fostered by the abuser), or that she will be made out to be a liar because of previous contradictory statements or actions.

Your situation is not one that is unique. It has happened thousands of times before, and the same scenario plays out in every state and most every city on a daily or weekly basis. Even in my small town, I can see the same story you just told played out again and again ... and the end results are about as predictable as the sun rising. Yes, there are exceptions to the interminable cycle of violence, but it rarely comes about without active intervention. And if you and your husband are disinclined to seek counseling or assistance, then it will almost certainly continue and get worse. Understand that he will make all sorts of promises (likely before he can even legally contact you) about how he will change, he's sorry, he loves you, and that this will never happen again,. And you will believe him because you want to.

The song remains the same.

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she said no matter what state I'm in I do not have to testify against my husband

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She was WRONG about that one. Yes, you can be made to testify against him.

WHo was this advocate? If this advocate was not from CA, then she should not speak to matters of CA law if she is not aware of them. And, as far as I know, in DV cases there is no spousal immunity in any state. There may be a couple, but if there are, they are few in number and CA is not among them.

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And I'm positive that parents don't raise their kids I fear saying omg do not push each other because one day you might go to jail and lose your job. No your parents tell you don't hit girls.

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My parents did not differentiate between a push or a hit. Laying hands on another when it is not wanted is, by definition, battery. I was taught that you do not strike a girl. Period. Not that hitting was bad but pushing was okay, or even what the consequences might be. Some things are just plain wrong.

As politically incorrect as it may be to discuss, the reality is that no matter who they work for, advocates have agendas of their own, BEYOND assisting the victim across the board. Advocates who work for non-profits or social service agencies may give advice and assistance designed to provide immediate physical safety, sometimes at the expense of future legal issues, such as custody (an advocate who believes that their program participant's life may be in imminent danger may have no trouble shelling out some bucks for a ticket and putting that person on the first bus to the other side of the country - perhaps saving the participant's life, but with the tradeoff of risk of creating legal opportunities for the abuser to raise legal issues regarding removal of children, etc.). For these advocates, preservation of life is the prime directive, all other things being secondary, even sometimes at the expense of a criminal case against the offender or a harder row to plow in civil and custody matters down the line.

On the other hand, an advocate who works for the DA gets to take for granted that the life-saving advocacy has for the most part already occurred thru a group such as the above and thus their focus is getting victims to participate as witnesses - to help the DA - and to help take steps that work towards making victims comfortable or reassured that doing so is in their own best interests. In fact in many states some advocacy services, including things like crime victim compensation programs, aren't even made available unless victims are willing to "play ball" to get either a conviction or a plea. They serve an important role in providing explanations, making sure victim's voices are heard at various stages of the legal process, and walking victims through the veritable maze that is our criminal justice system, and other services - but at the end of the day, their paycheck comes from the prosecutor, not the defense - so their demeanor with victims can sometimes be one of placation and soothing sympathy, rather than "telling it like it is".

Advocates on the criminal justice side (working for prosecutors or law enforcement agencies) focus on enforcement of laws and accountability for offenders, while non criminal justice advocates (non-profits, church groups, social service agencies) seek to break patterns of power and control, to change social and cultural attitudes that foster such violence, and to provide immediate intervention in crisis situations. Sometimes these two work hand in hand with each other - sometimes they are visciously opposed in their goals. So when evaluating advocacy, you really have to start with understanding the stances of the advocate providing that advocacy.

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she said no matter what state I'm in I do not have to testify against my husband

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If, for example, there was a good plea deal in the bullpen that the DA expected to be picked up, then there wouldn't even be a trial - and thus, absolutely, you wouldn't have to testify. But if there's going to be a trial, and you've got testimony that the DA needs to get a conviction, I'd be expecting to sit on the witness stand if I were you.

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I told her all of the things surrounding the case and she also felt that it wasn't handled properly

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Clearly the advocate does not know police procedure or the law. She is free to her opinion, but it's likely wrong.

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Or, the case WAS handled properly, and the advocate knows it, but there's nothing to be gained by arguing, while trust and eventual cooperation can be gained by playing along, sympathetically, against the big bad "system". Good cop/bad cop stuff.


Displeasure with the various competing interests within the "usual" forms of advocacy is exactly what led to AARDVARC. No "boss", and nothing being "policitally incorrect" means I'm often in a unique position to call things as I see them, as opposed to how some larger power wants them to be seen or presented to others - with the goal of presenting ALL relevant info to victims, and helping them evaluate their situation in a well-rounded, as opposed to "goal focused", manner.

And, here, the advocate (whoever they are) has provided potentially damning suggestions to the OP indicating that she would not have to testify. I agree that it is very possible that the advocate was just nodding and agreeing to move things along, but this can be a dangerous practice and has landed advocates here in very precarious positions when they provide what can constitute legal advice to clients and they get in trouble as a result. It can be a very precarious trail to walk, and the good advocates I know tend to couch their language so that they cannot be accused of providing such ill advice.

In this case, if trust was the goal, I think it may have failed because it seems to have encouraged the OP to avoid seeking assistance or recognizing the plight she finds herself in. It might also place her into legal jeopardy.

Of course, it might be possible that the advocate only has very limited information and what the OP has told her, in which case she's acting on incomplete info.

Can I sign an affidavit of non prosecution in California? And will it help if I sign it before the EPO expires so no one can claim I was forced or threatened?

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Quoting BriLu

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Can I sign an affidavit of non prosecution in California? And will it help if I sign it before the EPO expires so no one can claim I was forced or threatened?

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You'd have to ask the DA if they offer such a thing. Not every county uses them. And, as I said, by doing this you will be surrendering a great deal of your own autonomy and will effectively be putting your husband into the driver's seat for the relationship.

I strongly encourage you to seek counseling (though I am pretty certain that you will ignore that plea and will tell yourself that everything will be fine ... that's how it happens in most cases like yours).

And, again, the EPO and the police reports are not evidence of squat. And, even if there is no prosecution the arrest and the police reports (including the EPO affidavit) will remain.

Do you all think it will help if I went back to my home state? My mIL thinks that if I come back that all this will disappear and I hate her saying that cause its like she's saying its all my fault. And plus I feel like if I go back the prosecution will try to make it seem like I went back because I was scared or didn't wanna be with him. I'm just so very tired of all this. Yes my husband and I made a big mistake the other morning but is all this really necessary and even more so deserved? I wouldn't wish this on my worse enemy. This I feel is too extreme for the circumstances. The advocate told me about a case she had where a man beat his wife and threw glasses at her then made her sleep in the garage in her underwear. And he didn't even get convicted of anything! And the wife left which was good. But she said this man was even in the navy and basically didn't suffer any consequences. And my husband and I have to be treated the same way as him???? Ridiculous. So much for an Independence Day. Everyone has stuck their dirty hands into my pie and now I have absolutely no control over my life. Thanks a lot justice system you're helping sooo much!! I feel like my life is so much better than it was before when if you hadn't stepped in my husband and I probably would have been cuddling and watching tv. What ever would I do without you good ole justice system. And yes I am very angry for anyone wondering.

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Quoting BriLu

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Do you all think it will help if I went back to my home state? My mIL thinks that if I come back that all this will disappear and I hate her saying that cause its like she's saying its all my fault. And plus I feel like if I go back the prosecution will try to make it seem like I went back because I was scared or didn't wanna be with him. I'm just so very tired of all this. Yes my husband and I made a big mistake the other morning but is all this really necessary and even more so deserved? I wouldn't wish this on my worse enemy. This I feel is too extreme for the circumstances. The advocate told me about a case she had where a man beat his wife and threw glasses at her then made her sleep in the garage in her underwear. And he didn't even get convicted of anything! And the wife left which was good. But she said this man was even in the navy and basically didn't suffer any consequences. And my husband and I have to be treated the same way as him???? Ridiculous. So much for an Independence Day. Everyone has stuck their dirty hands into my pie and now I have absolutely no control over my life. Thanks a lot justice system you're helping sooo much!! I feel like my life is so much better than it was before when if you hadn't stepped in my husband and I probably would have been cuddling and watching tv. What ever would I do without you good ole justice system. And yes I am very angry for anyone wondering.

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Running away from it may just make it WORSE.

I get that you're frustrated.

But spare a thought for the thousands of women who try to get their spouses out of trouble - by whatever means - and end up dead.

Happy July 4th. We're trying to SAVE people and allow them LIFE AND FREEDOM.

I understand that! I really do!! But like I said we are not those people that need to be "saved". Maybe some couples counseling would have helped but now matters are worse than they were and well have to basically start everything over. I can't even go to school now. And while everyone is bbqing today im stuck in the house with nothing to do. But my life is being bettered? No not really. I say save it for someone who asks for it. Or someone who was being beaten and not mutually fighting.

Regarding transportation to work....do some research on your county....most will have an Essential Transportation program that only costs a couple dollars and runs ontime.

As for mutual fighting: That is NOT a healthy relationship. At the least, marriage counseling. And you both need individual counseling.

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Maybe some couples counseling would have helped

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Who can say whether or not individual or couples counseling would have made any difference, since it appears that neither of you GOT any. Unfortunately, the time to get intervention or help that is within your own control is BEFORE a situation gets to the point where police are being called. If things are allowed to escalate to a level where such intervention is necessary, then all the justifications, excuses, and down-playing cease to have meaning. The police didn't show up because they had nothing better to do - your "altercation" was SO loud and SO worrysome to someone ELSE, that they invited "the system" into the mix when the situation was no longer a "private one". Whether YOU wanted that intervention or not, you have to understand that when such behavior impacts OTHER people, they are going to react to it. Your neighbors don't want to have to worry about escalation of violence in your home any more than we do - except that they are the ones who might have to face fallout from escalation, and the reality is that domestic violence DOES impact other people all the time, with things like stray bullets, the sounds of breaking dishes, the sounds of battery, the screaming on the front lawn, the ramming the car into the house on purpose, or having you show up on their front doorstep in the middle of the night with your throat slit - all things that anyone who has been in and around either law enforcement or advocacy sees with scary frequency - and most of which had victims telling everyone around them "it's not a big deal". At the end of the day, it's not "the system"'s job to make your life happy, your relationship work, or things get back to normal ...it's their job to (a) do what they can within the law to keep you alive, (b) give those accused of crimes a fair shake via the court system, and (c) upon adjudication of guilt, respond appropriately as outlined in your state's guidelines or within the discretion of the judge - which could include anything from time behind bars, to counseling, to probation, etc.

While the system can force it's demands on the accused, you the victim are really on your own as to where to go from here. I know it feels like you're on aroller coaster. The ways to get OFF the roller coaster depend in some part on what the state (the prosecutor) ends up doing with the criminal case, and in some part on what each of the parties involved is willing to DO to ensure that the issue doesn't occur again, since, as you've been told repreatedly, domestic violence has strong tendency to INCREASE in both frequency and intensity over time, NOT to decrease or resolve itself without intervention. There are memorials all over the country with the names of thousands of deceased victims who pled to family, friends, law enforcement, and the courts to butt out because they too didn't need to be "saved" - that's exactly WHY the desires of the victim can take a back seat to prosecution - especially when there's a strong case. In any case, most avenues off the roller coaster include some mixture of: accountability for the offender, counseling for both the offender and the victim - both separately and eventually jointly, separation for some period of time, etc. Until you are able to better understand the how's and why's of why you're ON a roller coaster in the first place, you're going to have a hard time getting off of it. While your husband is working through aspects from HIS end, work on aspects from your own end - whether that be getting nto a support group, doing some reading on domestic violence dynamics, talking with a spiritual leader, or seeking individual therapy - all of which can help you to realistically evaluate your relationship, and to figure out where to go from here.

Ok so before I even read this long paragraph you wrote about someone you don't know. ME. I would like to stop you right there and let you know that we weren't being loud and we were actually trying to be quiet about it because we know how our neighbors are thanks. And we live in a duplex. I can hear my neighbors peeing from my bedroom which gross but I still shouldn't have to tip tow around my own house because they don't at all. They have parties and bbqs all the time an we for bother them so get the story straight first.

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And I also guess they were so worried about my dog too that they had to lie and say we were starving him an leaving him at home all day. Which btw was investigated and found to be false. So maybe I should call the SPCA on them and ask them to investigate why my neighbors had two puppies on two separate occasions since January and why thy have both magically disappeared.

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It's like it's etched into everyone's brain to automatically say oh yes you're abused get counseling. And I can talk and how proof all day that I'm not and after all of that they respond as ummm...the YMCA offers help to victims for free! It's like they are programmed to not listen to anything an say only that in response. It's annoying as hell. I see now how ppl who are innocent of crimes end up confessing when they didn't do anything. Because you have someone in your face 24/7 convincing you that you did. Free country my ass. This is brainwashing.

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And sorry if my spelling is wrong. I am having to use my phone Internet and can't see well since my husband is having to use out bill money for a lawyer now. But oh my life is just soooo much better!

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And I honestly do understand that people are really in dangerous situations but I also feel that each individual case should be treated as such. INDIvIDuAl. Meaning not like anyone else's situation. And I think the stress that I'm sure this has caused both of us already is enough to make us think twice before arguing or even getting mad. And I think stuff like this will make you end up holding all of your anger inside in the future because you're scared you might get into more trouble and end up ruining your marriage because you're too afraid to show real feelings which include being angry. But obviously that just my opinion because Big Brother knows best. I have lost almost ten pounds in exactly a week because I can't even eat from being overly stressed about all of this. I'm worried about losing my job because I dont have a reliable ride to work now and the new advocate I have is almost 80 years old and shouldn't be driving anyways and has forgotten twice to pick me up. I cant go to school and my husband cant go to school. Then I'm worried my husband will lose his job which will be worse! Then he'll no we won't be worried about getting counseling because we will be trying to make sure we have somewhere to live. How is this making us better people? My husband dent do anything more to me than I did to him and was only arrested because he is a man. If this is "justice" then arrest me too!! But ooh because I'm a woman I'm just being abused. Once again I will say I know what we did was not right but damn can you honestly say we should have to go through all of this.

Then leave here. Rather than argue with us, go see a lawyer in your area.