How to Determine if a Speed Survey Exists

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Quoting renny0021

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Actually, what the retired LEO told me is as follows:

Check for the existence of a current T&E survey. He said when he was on the job he would not be wasting time writing radar/laser citations on a stretch of road where there was no current survey (within five years). Additionally, he said to request a copy of the back side of the ticket. According to his training and experience, the legal standard he's required to meet in court is independent recollection of the circumstances surrounding the alleged violation. His advice was that if the back of the ticket is blank, it is worth to pursue dragging the matter out to undermine the officer's recollection of the event, and in court a possible strategy would be to attack the officer's inability to recall the circumstances.

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I don't need you to repeat your conversation with the retired officer. After all, laws change, police procedures change and what he was trained for years ago would likely seem primitive in today's world. My point was to infer that instead of wasting your time and his talking about independant recollection, you should be doing more research about the existance or lackthereof a survey in this case. In other words, you should leave the independant recollection issue aside becuase it is a moot point, it will not get you anywhere and it will not win you the case, with or without the survey.

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Quoting renny0021

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According to his training and experience, the legal standard he's required to meet in court is independent recollection of the circumstances surrounding the alleged violation.

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Well, it is either one of two things... He either did not issue many citations or the citations he issued were never prosecuted.

As for the links you posted, Nolo is in the business of selling books, are they not? Do you think they would include a page or two in each chapter to entice someone to seek more details? I know they do.. Still, I do believe they have a forum of there own,. Maybe you can ask them about relevant material that they are publishing!

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Quoting renny0021

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I was hoping to read some advice on how to best highlight the fact that the officer is unable to recall the circumstances. Reading some generic advice on a Web site is one thing, but standing in front of a judge who has probably seen their share of jailhouse lawyer tactics-- "Your honor, the 6th Amendment guarantees me the right to be confronted by the witnesses against me, and this officer is the witness, not the notes on the back of the citation" seems a little Perry Mason-esque, and perhaps there is a wiser, smoother way to say that-- and I just want to be well-prepared and avoid doing something dumb.

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And yet you are still unprepared (if you aren't 100% sure there isn't a survey) and are doing everything you can to doing something dumb (discussing issues that are irrelevant).

And I am sorry I will not waste my time discussing matters that I know the court will allow you zero leeway on. As I posted above, the issues here are your speed, the speed limit, road conditions and whether a survey exists or not. And again, this case is not going to be won or lost on independant recollection. The issue herre is whether a valid survey exists or not. If a current and valid survey exists, then you aren't likely to win the case. If a current and valid survey does not exist, then you motion the court for a dismissal and hope the judge agrees.

To prepare and pretend that you are going to go to court to beat the officer by questioning his ability to remember facts that are irrelevant to the charged offense, you'd be fooling yourself and you're free to continue on that road on your own.

Good luck!

I received an email from the city clerk stating that a traffic and engineering survey does not exist for this particular road.

Fight Your Ticket does not explicitly address these circumstances, though it does offer several sample motions for dismissal.

My take is nothing ventured, nothing gained, but regarding a motion for dismissal, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier to simply appear. On the LA County Superior Court Web site it mentions that a consolidation is taking place in the court system right now, and I gather things have become very chaotic in the courts to which things have been transferred/consolidated.

In my case, the written motion to dismiss wasn't actually heard until the trial started. At that point, it essentially became a Pen C 1118 motion. That's actually fortuitous, because a dismissal under Pen C 1385 isn't a bar to further prosecution for misdemeanors or infractions if the case is dismissed before jeopardy attaches. By ensuring that the trial had commenced, and then dismissing the case under PC 1385, the judge ensured that the state couldn't re-file the ticket later.

If you do go to court, it would still make sense to write your argument down so you can hand a copy to the judge. If you get nervous, you'll at least have something written for the judge to read. Make sure you object if the officer testifies about your speed without introducing a survey into evidence. Re-read the sections in Fight Your Ticket about the PC 1118 motion, as well as the E&TS.

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Quoting renny0021

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Fight Your Ticket does not explicitly address these circumstances

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Fight your ticket has a complete Chapter dedicated to DUIs...

How about a few pointers on how to deal with officer's requests for a breath test?

Portable and roadside versus, stationary at the station? Pros and cons!!!


You go first!

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Quoting renny0021

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regarding a motion for dismissal, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier to simply appear.

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How else would you present and argue your motion?

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Quoting renny0021

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On the LA County Superior Court Web site it mentions that a consolidation is taking place in the court system right now, and I gather things have become very chaotic in the courts to which things have been transferred/consolidated.

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Consolidation, layoffs of hundreds of people, ousted commissioners offered severance pay that amounts to millions of dollars in total... ALL of that started in 2008. So to describe current conditions as being chaotic... Not the term I would use. Most people would not know the difference. that does not change the fact that even before 2008, traffic court motions were never scheduled for separate hearings!

You're a paralegal, no?

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Quoting renny0021

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You're a paralegal, no?

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What difference would it make?

Just curious.

No, I'm not!

I recently went to trial for the aforementioned ticket. As part of my preparation I visited the traffic court on a different day than my trial and watched for a while to see how things go. There were two separate cases where the commissioner/judge asked if the officer was present, to which a different officer (presumably from the same department) responded, in effect, "I was not the citing officer, so I have no individual recall of the circumstances surrounding the citation." Those cases were dismissed.

Regarding my own case, the officer was not present, so the case was dismissed. But even if he had appeared, there was no T&E survey, so I expected to win regardless.

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Quoting renny0021

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I recently went to trial for the aforementioned ticket. As part of my preparation I visited the traffic court on a different day than my trial and watched for a while to see how things go. There were two separate cases where the commissioner/judge asked if the officer was present, to which a different officer (presumably from the same department) responded, in effect, "I was not the citing officer, so I have no individual recall of the circumstances surrounding the citation." Those cases were dismissed.

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I am not sure what your point is behind posting ^this part^ but for one, the issue is not "individual recall", instead, it is "independent recollection"... More sadly for you, and although you've made statements and asked questions throughout this thread that made it clear that you are naive and uninformed about the legal process and what it entails. This, however, takes it a few steps further to show that you are dumb and thick headed. If we were to only consider one single reason as to why what you're claiming to have witnessed isn't likely to happen, I would consider that it would be a waste of that police agency's payroll hours/dollars to have one officer appear on behalf of another simply to stand up and say what you described. Little do you know that a simple phone call to the judge's clerk (yes, officers have direct numbers to the court whereas you don't) or even the mere fact that the officer isn't there would suffice. You've made it more than obvious that you lack any knowledge about how an officer is ordered to appear by way of a subpoena; the evidence code requirements that must be met, or the simple fact that what you're claiming makes no rhyme or reason.

So in your attempt to try and press on a point I already told you is of no relevance or importance, you attempted to lie. And do you know what is worse than a liar? A liar who gets it all wrong, i.e. a "stupid liar"...

Oh, but wait... You were not done yet; you weren't happy with it only happening once, you had to claim it happened twice. In one day. Which would then require that we double up ion you being a stupid liar... Which is equal to you qualifying for "one glaring idiot"!

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Quoting renny0021

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Regarding my own case, the officer was not present, so the case was dismissed. But even if he had appeared, there was no T&E survey, so I expected to win regardless.

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Yeah... I'm sorry, but you screwed the other one up so badly that there is sufficient basis to presume that you are lying about this one as well. For all we know you were probably convicted and misunderstood that to mean a dismissal.

On its face, none of the above is important, as those are your issues to deal with. The point at which this becomes an issue that is disconcerting to me, is knowing that someone with your lack of common sense is actually allowed to drive! Add the part where you mentioning L A county in all of this, and all of a sudden, it becomes personal! :hopelessness: :nightmare:

Edited To Add: Sorry... I forgot to say thanks for the update.