I Was Accused of Shoplifting and to Pay a Civil Demand Right then and There

My question involves criminal law for the state of: Connecticut

Please don't judge. I know what I did was really wrong and stupid. I wont give you my sob story but suffice it to say that this economy has taken its toll on me after trying for 2 years to get a job when the company I worked for closed.

I had left a store and was stopped by security 1/2 way to my car and was told to come back inside the store. I took 2 clothing items while in a dressing room and no one saw, but they must have counted the items when I left the dressing room, but they may not have have seen me conceal the items. Once back inside the store, they took my purse, walked me to a tiny room and proceeded to go through every item in my purse, wallet, side pockets. They took back the 2 clothing items I took and asked me to write down everything I had ever taken from the store on a blank piece of paper. Store Security said he had been watching me and he knew everything I had ever taken from the store and I better write everything down because he is going to check it against his list. I wrote down 6 clothing items even though I had only taken 2 items before because I was scared he would not believe me and think I was lying and call the police. (I had only taken something twice before...again, please don't judge, the items were never for me). Apparently he did not have a list since he did not correct what I said I took. I did NOT sign any papers admitting I stole something even though they kept telling me too. They took my picture...twice. Can they do that? They did not call the police but told me I had to pay a civil demand for each time I took something (3 x $250) plus the estimated value of what I took in the past. This totaled $1560 was I was told to pay it right then or they could have their lawyers contact me. I did not want my family finding out about this and I was scared so I gave them my credit card and the charged me the whole amount with the receipt showing but the word miscellaneous on it. I was banned from both the store and the mall. This all happened a week ago. here are my questions:

1. Should I stop payment on my credit card?
2. Did they overcharge me?
3. Were they allowed to stop me and go through my entire purse? The items I took were right on top.
4. I did not sign anything. I just wrote 1 skirt, 2 tops, 1 pant on a blank piece of paper. I did not sign any of the paperwork.
5. Is the verbal conversation enough to indict me?
6. Why didn't they call the police? Can they still have me arrested even though they let me go and I paid the civil demand?
7. They said I could not have any copies of the paperwork since I refused to sign. I did not refuse outright...I advised them that I was not sure if I should sign anything and that I did not have my glasses.
8. Should I have not said anything at all and just asked for an attorney?
9. Could I be entered into a theft data base even though I did not sign anything. Can they legally do that? (I do not wish my mistake to follow me forever).

I tried another legal site but got very mixed messages....some said this was extortion and some said I deserved it and I should pay whatever they said.....all this did was confuse me and I have no idea which is correct. Please don't get me wrong. I had no problem with them charging me for what I took, but I never, I mean never took $1560 worth of clothes.

I appreciate any help and thank you.

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Quoting Kat1425

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They took my picture...twice. Can they do that?

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Of course they CAN do it. They already DID do it. But if you are asking did they violate some law, the answer is no, they didn't.

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Quoting Kat1425

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1. Should I stop payment on my credit card?

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That's entirely up to you. But probably a bad idea because you could end up still being arrested and then sued and everybody will find out what you did.

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Quoting Kat1425

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2. Did they overcharge me?

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No way of knowing that. You'll have to find out the price of the items. Probably wouldn't matter. You were offered a way out by paying X dollars. You agreed to pay.

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Quoting Kat1425

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3. Were they allowed to stop me and go through my entire purse? The items I took were right on top.

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Yes, they were.

You were on private property. The owners or their employees are not bound by the Constitution. They could pretty much do anything they wanted, including physically restrain you within acceptable limits.

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Quoting Kat1425

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4. I did not sign anything. I just wrote 1 skirt, 2 tops, 1 pant on a blank piece of paper. I did not sign any of the paperwork.

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Doesn't matter. Again, you were offered a way out for X dollars. You accepted. You could have said no at any time and insisted they call the police.

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Quoting Kat1425

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5. Is the verbal conversation enough to indict me?

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Yes.

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Quoting Kat1425

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6. Why didn't they call the police?

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Why should they? They got restitution out of you by scaring the crap out of you. Be thankful they didn't.

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Quoting Kat1425

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Can they still have me arrested even though they let me go and I paid the civil demand?

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Yes. Civil and criminal are two different things.

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Quoting Kat1425

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7. They said I could not have any copies of the paperwork since I refused to sign. I did not refuse outright...I advised them that I was not sure if I should sign anything and that I did not have my glasses.

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Doesn't matter. They had no legal obligation to give you anything.

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Quoting Kat1425

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8. Should I have not said anything at all and just asked for an attorney?

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You had the option of not saying anything. But they had no obligation to provide you with an attorney. Had you not settled and paid you likely would have been arrested and then you could have hired an attorney.

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Quoting Kat1425

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9. Could I be entered into a theft data base even though I did not sign anything. Can they legally do that?

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Yes and yes.

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Quoting Kat1425

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I do not wish my mistake to follow me forever.

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To late for regrets. You should have thought about the consequences before you did the stealing and then not done it. Now you live with the consequences which, hopefully, are over and done with.

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Quoting Kat1425

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Please don't judge. I know what I did was really wrong and stupid. I wont give you my sob story but suffice it to say that this economy has taken its toll on me after trying for 2 years to get a job when the company I worked for closed.

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If you're not wanting to 'fess up a "sob story", you're pretty much failing miserably. Your 'justification' has a big sob running right through the middle of it.

For example:
.....suffice it to say that this economy has taken its toll on me after trying for 2 years to get a job when the company I worked for closed....

And you wish not to be judged? That'd work for a one-and-done offender, but you're a repeater.

Looks to be you got off light.....no police involvement!

If you wanna stop the payment you may wanna put aside some coin for bond first.

Souperdave;

I have seen alot of unkind statements on this forum. I was asking not to be judged since everyone makes mistakes in their lifetime as I am sure you have! I am not a career criminal and yes, I have already admitted it was a very bad idea. There was no need for the sarcasm.

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Adjusterjack:

Thank you for your answers. I appreciate the help and the professional way in which you answered my questions. I definitely will never take anything again....it was a very bad idea from the start.

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Quoting Kat1425

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Souperdave;

I have seen alot of unkind statements on this forum. I was asking not to be judged since everyone makes mistakes in their lifetime as I am sure you have! I am not a career criminal and yes, I have already admitted it was a very bad idea. There was no need for the sarcasm.

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Adjusterjack:

Thank you for your answers. I appreciate the help and the professional way in which you answered my questions. I definitely will never take anything again....it was a very bad idea from the start.

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Weird. The max allowed by law in conn is $300 plus damages. They charge for any unrecovered, nonsaleable and damaged merchandise. That means they charged you $300 plus $1200 or so in damages?

What store was this? I may be able to help. This seems like someone padding their numbers. Also, it is a general practice for LP to not rummage through purses or bags. They can secure them, but rummaging is against a few of the retailers policies that I suspect this is.

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Quoting bam!

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Weird. The max allowed by law in conn is $300 plus damages. They charge for any unrecovered, nonsaleable and damaged merchandise. That means they charged you $300 plus $1200 or so in damages?

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She admitted to three incidents of theft, and the civil demand was calculated as 3 x $250 + the estimated value of the goods she stole on the prior occasions.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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She admitted to three incidents of theft, and the civil demand was calculated as 3 x $250 + the estimated value of the goods she stole on the prior occasions.

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I understood what the poster said. Civil demand is only when Applicable when caught in the act. Restitution is for prior offenses not caught. Undetected acts are not civil demand eligible per the law. I know how these guys operated and it's downright shady. I bet they do not have documented evidence and police reports for prior thefts

And of course, there's nothing at all shady about a history of thievery.

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Quoting bam!

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I understood what the poster said. Civil demand is only when Applicable when caught in the act.

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Where do you find that rule?

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Quoting Connecticut Statutes, Sec. 52-564a. Liability for shoplifting.

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(a) Any person eighteen years of age or older or an emancipated minor who takes possession of goods or merchandise displayed or offered for sale by any mercantile establishment, or who takes from any real property any agricultural produce kept, grown or raised on the property for purposes of sale, without the consent of the owner and with the intention of converting such goods, merchandise or produce to his own use without having paid the purchase price thereof, or who alters the price indicia of such goods or merchandise, shall be liable in a civil action to the owner of the goods, merchandise or produce for (1) the actual and reasonable costs of maintaining the action, including court costs and a reasonable attorney’s fee, (2) the retail value of the goods, merchandise or produce taken, if not recovered by the time of the commencement of the action or if recovered in an unmerchantable condition, and (3) punitive damages in an amount not to exceed three hundred dollars.

(b) A conviction of larceny by shoplifting, as defined in subdivision (9) of section 53a-119, shall not be a condition precedent to the maintenance of a civil action under this section.

(c) In any action brought pursuant to subsection (a) of this section, if the plaintiff does not prevail, the court may award to the defendant his costs, including a reasonable attorney’s fee, and damages not to exceed three hundred dollars.

(d) No action shall be brought pursuant to subsection (a) of this section but within two years from the date of the act complained of.

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As I read the statute, the act of theft creates the cause of action. Each separate act of shoplifting would create an additional cause of action. There's nothing in the statute that requires that a defendant to be caught in the act in order to be liable under the statute, or for a civil demand to be issued or judgment to be obtained for an admitted or proved act of theft. The civil demand is simply an offer to settle the statutory cause of action.

Right. But by not recovering the merchandise, the store would have to result to restitution to be made whole.

The way all the major civil demand "lawyers" calculate the amount demanded is based off recovery of merchandise. IE you steal a $300 item, it is recovered, they will demand $300. If it is not recovered or if it is damaged, they will demand the $300 to make them whole. (Not $300+$300)

They charged Civil Demand AND restitution on each account which does not fall under the guidelines that 99% of CD law firms abide by. To each their own.

The poster would have a good chance at disputing this charge and winning. They should be charged the demand for the time they were physically apprehended.

As all know, judges and juries have spent years debating civil demand laws and their legality. Some states do not allow Civil Demand at all and Conn only allows it for adults, not juveniles.

These LP were padding their numbers.

In most places the CD demand is made for whatever the statutory maximum is regardless of whether the item was recovered or not (either at the time of theft or through restitution). The amount of damage done to the stores by the criminals exceeds the actual value of the merchandise. LP doesn't typically play ANY role in the CD process (other than to forward the information to the home office). There's nothing to pad. Even if the item is recovered 100% resalable and put back on the shelf, they can still demand $300 in statutory damages plus the costs of prosecuting such..

If it comes to a civil court action, I'm not anywhere near as optimistic as bam!. The real issue is that these rarely are pursued in court because they can't collect enough to make it worth their legal efforts.

A few stores allow LP to collect the Civil Demand on spot. Souperdave and I probably have a good guess as to what retailer this is, and no its not one that he has worked for. The store that I am thinking of ranks their LP teams based off of dollars of civil demand collected. It makes sense they would inflate the dollar "owed" in order to obtain higher numbers.

I am not on either side. The OP shoplifted and got away by their own admission. They then shoplifted again and got caught. The LP said pay up or else. The LP came out on top and the OP is $1500 poorer.

LP can take your picture. They can rummage through bags. They can refuse paperwork. They can ask for any amount of money they want. You are free to subpoena the paperwork and refuse all demands.

My question to the OP: Did they explain a civil demand paper to you and have you sign or initial the paper? Did they bring you to a register and process your payment or did they take your card?

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Quoting bam!

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Right. But by not recovering the merchandise, the store would have to result to restitution to be made whole.

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Restitution is a criminal law concept.

The statute allows for recovery of "the retail value of the goods, merchandise or produce taken, if not recovered by the time of the commencement of the action or if recovered in an unmerchantable condition".

The statute is somewhat atypical, as it does not expressly allow for a civil demand - it simply describes the civil remedy available through court. I would not recommend the practice followed in the described incident. But the statute does allow for recovery of compensation for merchandise that is not recovered.

The "punitive" portion of the damages are in addition to actual losses. Some stores demand the full amount; some demand less. If the matter goes to court, the court picks the number.

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Quoting bam!

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The poster would have a good chance at disputing this charge and winning.

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The dispute would be a matter between the poster and the credit card company. Assuming the credit card company grants the charge back and finds that the merchant is not entitled to the money, it will be up to the merchant to decide whether to pursue the matter in court. Some merchants sue, many others do not - that's a roll of the dice. The dice roll might also inspire the merchant to report the matter to the police.

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Quoting bam!

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They should be charged the demand for the time they were physically apprehended.

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Better practice, sure, but again not what the statute says.

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Quoting bam!

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As all know, judges and juries have spent years debating civil demand laws and their legality. Some states do not allow Civil Demand at all and Conn only allows it for adults, not juveniles.

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And some states, including the one under discussion, don't have particularly helpful laws for the making of civil demands, as opposed to the filing of an actual lawsuit.

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Quoting bam!

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My question to the OP: Did they explain a civil demand paper to you and have you sign or initial the paper? Did they bring you to a register and process your payment or did they take your card?

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... the answers to which could be helpful for a dispute of the charge with your credit card company.

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Quoting bam!

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A few stores allow LP to collect the Civil Demand on spot. Souperdave and I probably have a good guess as to what retailer this is, and no its not one that he has worked for. The store that I am thinking of ranks their LP teams based off of dollars of civil demand collected. It makes sense they would inflate the dollar "owed" in order to obtain higher numbers.

I am not on either side. The OP shoplifted and got away by their own admission. They then shoplifted again and got caught. The LP said pay up or else. The LP came out on top and the OP is $1500 poorer.

LP can take your picture. They can rummage through bags. They can refuse paperwork. They can ask for any amount of money they want. You are free to subpoena the paperwork and refuse all demands.

My question to the OP: Did they explain a civil demand paper to you and have you sign or initial the paper? Did they bring you to a register and process your payment or did they take your card?

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Bam!,

Thank you asking questions. I appreciate your insight into this matter. The store was L*T. The LP said they had right to get back their money from everything I had ever taken from the store. As I mentioned in the original post, I inflated what I had taken because I was scared that if I had told him that I had only taken two other items, he would not believe me and call the police. The LP then went out into the store and took clothes from the floor and said this is what I owed in addition to the $750 incidents demand. I did not see nor read a civil demand paper. I did NOT initial nor sign anything except the register receipt they gave me which stated miscellaneous and $1500 charge on it. They took my card while I sat in the room. I did not go to the register. They also went through my wallet and took out every card that I own, spread them out on the table as well other items from my purse even though their items were right on top. I am mostly worried that I will be asked to pay more from their lawyers as well as be arrested down the road. I thought that since I paid their demand and they did not call the police, that nothing more would happen and yet I keep reading that they can still do it. Is it likely that they will? And mall security took my picture as well. Will they circulate it to every store in the mall? I understand the store having it, but the whole mall? Please ask your questions, and, thank you.

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Quoting Kat1425

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Bam!,

Thank you asking questions. I appreciate your insight into this matter. The store was L*T. The LP said they had right to get back their money from everything I had ever taken from the store. As I mentioned in the original post, I inflated what I had taken because I was scared that if I had told him that I had only taken two other items, he would not believe me and call the police. The LP then went out into the store and took clothes from the floor and said this is what I owed in addition to the $750 incidents demand. I did not see nor read a civil demand paper. I did NOT initial nor sign anything except the register receipt they gave me which stated miscellaneous and $1500 charge on it. They took my card while I sat in the room. I did not go to the register. They also went through my wallet and took out every card that I own, spread them out on the table as well other items from my purse even though their items were right on top. I am mostly worried that I will be asked to pay more from their lawyers as well as be arrested down the road. I thought that since I paid their demand and they did not call the police, that nothing more would happen and yet I keep reading that they can still do it. Is it likely that they will? And mall security took my picture as well. Will they circulate it to every store in the mall? I understand the store having it, but the whole mall? Please ask your questions, and, thank you.

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Mr Knowitall is factually correct. I speak from the best practice world as well as the world where I see tons of litigation regarding LP actions specifically with policy and procedure. These guys broke every rule in book and definitely padded the numbers. I would challenge the $1500 payment. I would pay the amount owed from the incident which they caught you and make them prove it and sue you for the ones they didn't. You not being present at the time they took possession of the card and swiped it is sketchy to say the least. What did they sign? Did they bypass the signature? Also a misc charge vs an account charge? What recourse do you have when they sue you for the amount owed? You have a receipt that says misc?

My advice is to contact the corporate office and talk with them. I would also file a dispute with the credit card company. Offer to pay the amount owed from the shoplifting case currently and take your chances on criminal prosecution. If they released you at the time of apprehension, I doubt they will charge you.

Having read the OP first post - this is why I have never allowed LP to collect Civil Demand at the store level. There are a lot of things wrong here.

There are many acceptable ways to collect civil demand. This is not one of them.

The mall will keep your picture on file for the length that they banned you for. I doubt they share it.

I also felt that they crossed the line in some way, but as I mentioned, some advice suggested it was shady and others said do not dispute the civil demand, otherwise they could change their minds and send the police to your door. While it will take me years to pay off that credit card, I would rather pay the charge then have a police record/arrest. I would dispute it if I knew that they could no longer arrest me since they themselves crossed many lines, but to roll the dice?? I am not sure I am able to take that chance. And how would one go about calling corporate? What could one say?

"Hi, I took a couple of clothing items of yours and I think you charged me too much for catching me?"

I'm not sure that would go over so well. And, I might be recorded when I call, thus sinking my own ship. As much as I can remember (I wasn't doing too well at the time), there were 3 pieces of paper. One they told me was banning me from the store and asked me to sign it. I did not. The other was a list of items taken from the store (I think...I did not have my glasses) but I did make out some of the words which basically said "I sign this document of my own free will that I was caught.....". I did not sign that one either. I think the 3rd was the same as the second but for the previous items I had took. Mall security also wanted me to sign their form which I also did NOT do. The LP said I could not have copies of anything since I would not sign the forms themselves and told me that either I could pay now or he would have the lawyers contact me. I did not want my family to know what I had done, so I said I would pay. He left with my credit card and came back with a register receipt for me to sign that had a line charge of misc. I did sign that since it was a charge receipt but it had no other items, statements on it...it was a register receipt. He also took my store credit card for awhile (maybe to check my purchase history for the store?) but made the charge on my MasterCard. I do have that receipt. He also took my store receipt for the items I did pay for and put a big X thru it and told me I could never return those items as well. Is there a time limit for me to dispute the charge. Is this something an attorney should handle? I was thinking the attorney would cost the same as the demand...

Again, thank you all for your insights/opinions in this matter.

You can consult with a Criminal Defense Attorney and see what he/she says. Most offer a free consult, so have your questions ready.

Advice: Even though you did not sign the trespass warnings - stay out of that store (and all it's locations nationwide) and stay out of that mall. You can be arrested for Criminal Trespass.

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Quoting Kat1425

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I also felt that they crossed the line in some way, but as I mentioned, some advice suggested it was shady and others said do not dispute the civil demand, otherwise they could change their minds and send the police to your door. While it will take me years to pay off that credit card, I would rather pay the charge then have a police record/arrest. I would dispute it if I knew that they could no longer arrest me since they themselves crossed many lines, but to roll the dice?? I am not sure I am able to take that chance. And how would one go about calling corporate? What could one say?

"Hi, I took a couple of clothing items of yours and I think you charged me too much for catching me?"

I'm not sure that would go over so well. And, I might be recorded when I call, thus sinking my own ship. As much as I can remember (I wasn't doing too well at the time), there were 3 pieces of paper. One they told me was banning me from the store and asked me to sign it. I did not. The other was a list of items taken from the store (I think...I did not have my glasses) but I did make out some of the words which basically said "I sign this document of my own free will that I was caught.....". I did not sign that one either. I think the 3rd was the same as the second but for the previous items I had took. Mall security also wanted me to sign their form which I also did NOT do. The LP said I could not have copies of anything since I would not sign the forms themselves and told me that either I could pay now or he would have the lawyers contact me. I did not want my family to know what I had done, so I said I would pay. He left with my credit card and came back with a register receipt for me to sign that had a line charge of misc. I did sign that since it was a charge receipt but it had no other items, statements on it...it was a register receipt. He also took my store credit card for awhile (maybe to check my purchase history for the store?) but made the charge on my MasterCard. I do have that receipt. He also took my store receipt for the items I did pay for and put a big X thru it and told me I could never return those items as well. Is there a time limit for me to dispute the charge. Is this something an attorney should handle? I was thinking the attorney would cost the same as the demand...

Again, thank you all for your insights/opinions in this matter.

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See this is what they are banking on, that people will be ashamed (rightfully so) and that cost to sue them is prohibitive to most people. That and lawyers cost more than the civil demand.

Look, tons of people steal all the time and a ton of people get caught. I would start by disputing the charge, specifically the amount charged. The store level people will not know about credit card chargebacks because it is handled at a higher level. Things are in place for consumer privacy and credit card encryption is mandated by law. Your account number is not really your account number, it is an internal number that LT assigns to you to track purchases. I am 99.9% certain, the store will never know that you disputed the charge. If they did, these LP are shady, shady LP's do not show up to court usually as it is a lot of work and time. These guys want to look good for their bosses, so they see people with money or access to lines of credit and hit them hard.

My advice is to tell the store to prove the past thefts. Dispute the charge, pay the proper CD and seek legal counsel. The burden of proof is on the store and the state if they choose to get involved. You are innocent until they prove you guilty. You have a tough choice to make. Do you roll over like a sheep, or do you stand up for your rights and what you believe in? I personally feel like you have a pretty decent case for a number of different claims against LT. You also have a great chance at getting your money back.

Contact legal professionals. Contact corporate. Contact the news. There are even government agencies that help people like you. Getting caught shoplifting is shameful. Im sure it sucks and you are sorry. It was fun stealing the stuff and getting it for free. You got caught like millions of others. That doesn't make it ok for them to extort you like this. (yes I went there).

I would like other posters to chime in. Maybe I am in left field.

I think she was pressured to write down she had stolen other items. It seems to me that then....ok, she wrote down a pair of pants....LP went and grabbed the most expensive pair they could find, not necessarily what she took.

I would be honest with the lawyer - that yes, you have stolen before. And I would have those items bagged up. Even if you took the tags off, many items have a stitched in tag with the UPC on it.

Another suggestion: Get yourself into either counseling or Shoplifters Anonymous.

Just a casual reader here with a personal opinion but is based on personal experience. This is a tough decision you have to make but based on this very personal experience i have i would let it go, lick your wounds and move on. $1500.00 is a small price to pay.

Here is a similar situation which we did NOT let go however, until we were forced to. A family member out at a bar got drunk, chose to drive home, didn't succeed and was in a horrific one car accident that only injured themselves, but injuries were lifetime devastation that totaled in the millions for medical care for the rest of family members life. We found out later from friends that were at the bar with family member that the bar was involved in this drinking escapade that escalated to a dare (10 beers set on the bar lined up and bar dared family member to drink them all). Dumb arse family member took the bet......hmmmm....did that create a liable situation? Your darn right it did.

We went after the bar, lost the battle in the local court but attorney took it to appeals to be heard by the florida supreme court and we won a chance to take it back to the original court. During this long (years) drawn out process it was discovered the bar let their insurance LAPSE! Omg...

So even though family member was the one who made multiple stupid decisions that night, the bar had no right to take advantage of the situation. The courts agreed and had it gotten pursued further it would have ended up what percentage of liability did the bar have in the situation.

I hope this made sense and draws the parallels here. This is why I say $1500.00 is a small price to pay.

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Quoting bam!

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See this is what they are banking on, that people will be ashamed (rightfully so) and that cost to sue them is prohibitive to most people. That and lawyers cost more than the civil demand.

Look, tons of people steal all the time and a ton of people get caught. I would start by disputing the charge, specifically the amount charged. The store level people will not know about credit card chargebacks because it is handled at a higher level. Things are in place for consumer privacy and credit card encryption is mandated by law. Your account number is not really your account number, it is an internal number that LT assigns to you to track purchases. I am 99.9% certain, the store will never know that you disputed the charge. If they did, these LP are shady, shady LP's do not show up to court usually as it is a lot of work and time. These guys want to look good for their bosses, so they see people with money or access to lines of credit and hit them hard.

My advice is to tell the store to prove the past thefts. Dispute the charge, pay the proper CD and seek legal counsel. The burden of proof is on the store and the state if they choose to get involved. You are innocent until they prove you guilty. You have a tough choice to make. Do you roll over like a sheep, or do you stand up for your rights and what you believe in? I personally feel like you have a pretty decent case for a number of different claims against LT. You also have a great chance at getting your money back.

Contact legal professionals. Contact corporate. Contact the news. There are even government agencies that help people like you. Getting caught shoplifting is shameful. Im sure it sucks and you are sorry. It was fun stealing the stuff and getting it for free. You got caught like millions of others. That doesn't make it ok for them to extort you like this. (yes I went there).

I would like other posters to chime in. Maybe I am in left field.

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Bam!,

Thank you so much for your advice. If the LP was banking on scaring someone silly, it worked. While I would love to pay less, I do worry about them deciding to make an example out of me and pressing charges should I dispute the charge. I actually thought the LP was being kind by not calling the police and letting me go. I did not realize some other facts might have been going on behind the scenes.

To some of the other posters:

I do appreciate other insights into this matter, however, I do not need shoplifting anonymous. Stealing for me was NOT fun and I got no great joy from doing it. I have always played by the rules until I got continually beaten down by the economy. It was stupid, I learned my lesson and just hope that I am not in a database somewhere that will follow me the rest of my days. And yes, I should have thought about that before....no need to point that out either.