Non-Family Adult Male Sleeping with Minor

Quote:

---

Quoting Dogmatique

---

But that's the point, Dad.

You chose Mom to be the parent of your child. The court will trust her judgement, just like it trusts yours.

What if Mom moves out into an apartment? She can have a new guy over every week if she wishes - yes, even when your son is present. The courts require a heck of a lot more in order to restrict the actions of either parent.

---

Yes, I understand what you are saying. And it makes sense that courts would make much more cautious decisions than a parent would. I as a parent want to be prememptive, whereas courts need an tangible imminent threat if not actual damages.

Thanks for your responses. I believe I'm taking something very important from this, and that is that if I do find myself standing in front of a judge, I need to be prepared to state a case much more effectively than I did here! And as it stands I fear I don't have a case and am going to have to find a way to manage the situation.

You're welcome, Dad.

All we want to do here is try to help - better still, to try to help you help yourself. Custody, divorce, litigation - they're often horrible things. They can turn your world upside down and back to front and sometimes, suddenly, you're swimming the midst of the Perfect Storm, without a lifeboat. The best any parent can do is accept that we no longer have control. We can't control or dictate what happens during the other parent's parenting time (much as we may or may not like to do).

Hang in there. Read through the custody boards some more. Learn what is, and isn't, important.

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

Finally, what do you mean about telling junior what happened? He woke up and found the boyfriend there. I didn't have to say anything.

---

If your story is now that junior has no idea what happened except that mom's boyfriend (who has been sleeping over for a year) spent part of the night in the bedroom he shares with his mother, it's not clear why junior would find that any more objectionable than he did the many other times the boyfriend spent the night.

You've known that your wife has been having her boyfriend sleep over for a year now, and you have historically approved of the relationship.

You know that your son sleeps naked in the same bed as his mother, and you have no problem with that. You don't seem interested in changing that arrangement, or even in telling junior to wear pajamas.

So why are you so upset over something that happened a month ago, of which junior is not aware, that your wife has indicated won't happen again, and that hasn't happened again? What is it that you are hoping to accomplish?

I think your role in the situation is almost equally inappropriate as moms given the new information.

There are several things left out of the equation in terms of finding a viable solution to your issue outside of going to court, which from my experience in my state at least is costly.

why are the living arrangements such that we know there are at least 3 rooms in this "place" your bedroom, your sons bedroom that your wife who has a boyfriend shares with your son, and a living room since you said there was a couch.

why if you state your wife is home on weekends only does she not sleep on the couch period, why do you "dad" let your wife get into bed with your 12 year old naked son. that's just beyond weird. Why doesn't he share a room with you since you are both males, that seems the most appropriate decision given his age, and his mothers poor decision making if your living situation is required. why do you 3 still house together at all. I mean if its financial reasons are you putting up with this because she supports you too?

I just don't understand this at all, I couldn't fathom your situation. I've lived poor, I've lived damn near homeless, I've been in a nasty split with an ex with whom I had children. There is no situation at all that I could conceive that would let me morally make the decisions you make, I say this so I don't come across as some all snooty privileged person, no that's not it, its a matter of this is just not normal man, not at all.

I fear however there is more to this story and I'm not sure I want to read or hear it. I'm not sure I'm equipped mentally to handle this forum or the people who post in it.

Quote:

---

Quoting Mr. Knowitall

---

If your story is now that junior has no idea what happened except that mom's boyfriend (who has been sleeping over for a year) spent part of the night in the bedroom he shares with his mother, it's not clear why junior would find that any more objectionable than he did the many other times the boyfriend spent the night.

You've known that your wife has been having her boyfriend sleep over for a year now, and you have historically approved of the relationship.

You know that your son sleeps naked in the same bed as his mother, and you have no problem with that. You don't seem interested in changing that arrangement, or even in telling junior to wear pajamas.

So why are you so upset over something that happened a month ago, of which junior is not aware, that your wife has indicated won't happen again, and that hasn't happened again? What is it that you are hoping to accomplish?

---

Mr. Knowitall:

1. I didn't say the boyfriend has been sleeping there for a year, I said they have been dating for a year. My son does not like the fact that they have ever used his bedroom for a booty call. You are reading into things when you conclude that he used to be OK with it. In any event, the incident that started this discussion is not representative of any other occasions the boyfriend came over. As I said before, he'd usually come over for awhile (in the evening) then leave before my son ever went to bed.

2. To my knowledge, the event I asked about happened only once. I have no knowledge of my son's mother and her boyfriend being in bed with my son on any other occasion.

3. I have no issues with my son sleeping naked with his mother. I do have issues with her boyfriend being in his bed, whether or not my son is clothed, and I especially have issues with his mother having sex with anyone in his bed with him present!!!! Why is this not the focus of inquiry???

4. It happened a couple weeks ago, and we agreed that she would not have him over again until he provided enough information about his background to give an indication of who he is. We also agreed that after he does that and after his information checks out, that they would not have sex in my son's bed anymore. The first chance she got, she had him over and they had sex in my son's bed. So that is the answer to why I am upset now, is that she is still using my son's bed to have sex, proved herself to be untrustworthy by going against our agreement, and neither she nor I still know where this guy lives, whether he is married, whether he had a criminal background, or anything.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Quoting aMadDad

---

I think your role in the situation is almost equally inappropriate as moms given the new information.

There are several things left out of the equation in terms of finding a viable solution to your issue outside of going to court, which from my experience in my state at least is costly.

why are the living arrangements such that we know there are at least 3 rooms in this "place" your bedroom, your sons bedroom that your wife who has a boyfriend shares with your son, and a living room since you said there was a couch.

why if you state your wife is home on weekends only does she not sleep on the couch period, why do you "dad" let your wife get into bed with your 12 year old naked son. that's just beyond weird. Why doesn't he share a room with you since you are both males, that seems the most appropriate decision given his age, and his mothers poor decision making if your living situation is required. why do you 3 still house together at all. I mean if its financial reasons are you putting up with this because she supports you too?

I just don't understand this at all, I couldn't fathom your situation. I've lived poor, I've lived damn near homeless, I've been in a nasty split with an ex with whom I had children. There is no situation at all that I could conceive that would let me morally make the decisions you make, I say this so I don't come across as some all snooty privileged person, no that's not it, its a matter of this is just not normal man, not at all.

I fear however there is more to this story and I'm not sure I want to read or hear it. I'm not sure I'm equipped mentally to handle this forum or the people who post in it.

---

Yes, aMadDad, I can see that no matter what I say, responders to this threat are going to have their own questions that would be a whole lot easier to answer if the conversation was in person.

My son is reaching an age where the sleeping arrangement in general is going to be revisited. It is interesting that you see it as weird, yet nowhere in your response do you even mention the issue: that my son's mother and her boyfiend had sex in the same bed as my son -- regardless of whether my son is clothed, and regardless of whether it is even his bed, is that not much bigger than anything else you can try to fault? Do I have my sense of values inverted?

Not that it is particularly relevant, but the arrangement is for this reason. I had my own apartment until about a year ago. My son's mother started traveling for work a couple years ago. About a year ago when my lease was up, I decided it was not worth it to renew it because I spent the weekdays at my son's, and the weekends at my girlfriends. Basically, I was paying over $3,000 a month for an apartment that I barely saw. Since I had no use for it, I didn't renew my lease. Does that sound a little more reasonable to you?

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Quoting Mr. Knowitall

---

You know that your son sleeps naked in the same bed as his mother, and you have no problem with that. You don't seem interested in changing that arrangement, or even in telling junior to wear pajamas.

---

As I said in my last post this is being revisited now that my son is 12. But you got me thinking. It honestly never crossed my mind until a few days ago that there could be anything wrong with my son sleeping with nothing on and his mother being in the same bed. To me I guess it was just an innocent sleeping arrangement. His body is starting to change, so it is a good time to make a corresponding change with the sleeping arrangement. Thanks for helping to raise a sense of urgency in my mind on this matter.

Are you talking about one incident or two? The first incident involved junior asleep in his room, and the more recent involved junior being told to spend the night in the living room. Are you saying that junior has objected to this new incident, and to "his" bedroom being used for a "bootie call"? Because for the first incident, for junior to be concerned about the "bootie call" only a day after-the-fact, somebody would have needed to alert him to what happened while he was asleep.

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

1. I didn't say the boyfriend has been sleeping there for a year, I said they have been dating for a year. My son does not like the fact that they have ever used his bedroom for a booty call.

---

He would prefer that they use your futon, which presumably doubles as the living room couch during the daytime?

Basic facts of life: If junior is going to share a bedroom and bed with mom, she's occasionally going to kick him out so she can spend time with her boyfriend. It makes a lot more sense to do things that way, than for mom and her boyfriend to shut junior in the bedroom and tell him, "Don't come out." As you appear to be coming to realize, it's time to change this living and sleeping arrangement.

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

You are reading into things when you conclude that he used to be OK with it.

---

I'm only reading what you wrote. That's all I can do.

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

In any event, the incident that started this discussion is not representative of any other occasions the boyfriend came over. As I said before, he'd usually come over for awhile (in the evening) then leave before my son ever went to bed.

---

I am skeptical that the relationship was platonic up to that night.

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

I have no issues with my son sleeping naked with his mother.

---

I get that. But you appear to be under the impression that nobody else is going to have a problem with it - that it won't reflect at all on your judgment - should you involve protective services or should you end up in a custody battle.

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

I do have issues with her boyfriend being in his bed, whether or not my son is clothed, and I especially have issues with his mother having sex with anyone in his bed with him present!!!! Why is this not the focus of inquiry???

---

You have told us that junior slept through the incident. You have told us that you discussed your concerns with your wife. You have told us that she promised it wouldn't happen again. You have told us that it hasn't happened again. Thus we're focusing on stuff junior might actually know about, as well as the other odd facts you have shared with us about your living arrangement.

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

The first chance she got, she had him over and they had sex in my son's bed.

---

Which also happens to be your wife's bed.

If you have had a full month to investigate the boyfriend (on top of your prior year's acquaintance) and have come up with nothing, or are not sufficiently concerned to have conducted any sort of investigation during that extended period, it does not seem surprising that the relationship has resumed. If you think there's dirt to dig up, grab a shovel and start digging.

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

My son is reaching an age where the sleeping arrangement in general is going to be revisited.

---

Given what you've told us, by western cultural standards he's considerably past that age.

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

It is interesting that you see it as weird, yet nowhere in your response do you even mention the issue: that my son's mother and her boyfiend had sex in the same bed as my son -- regardless of whether my son is clothed, and regardless of whether it is even his bed, is that not much bigger than anything else you can try to fault? Do I have my sense of values inverted?

---

Have you ever done something while your child was asleep that you would not have done in front of him? With your wife, without your wife, with a bottle of scotch.... If he's asleep, he's asleep. Everybody demonstrates bad judgment at times, and while an incident of which the child is unaware can raise questions, the more pressing concerns will come from bad judgment calls made during the child's waking hours.

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

About a year ago when my lease was up, I decided it was not worth it to renew it because I spent the weekdays at my son's, and the weekends at my girlfriends.

---

So, basically, you're crashing on your wife's couch?

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

Basically, I was paying over $3,000 a month for an apartment that I barely saw. Since I had no use for it, I didn't renew my lease. Does that sound a little more reasonable to you?

---

If you can afford a $3,000 apartment, there's no excuse for you to be crashing on a futon in the living room of a one bedroom unit while mom shares a mattress on the floor with your son, instead of your obtaining an appropriately sized apartment where people can have appropriate sleeping arrangments and an appropriate amount of privacy. Or at least buying junior and mom a pair of twin beds and mattresses. The stores are still open....

Quote:

---

Quoting Mr. Knowitall

---

Are you talking about one incident or two? The first incident involved junior asleep in his room, and the more recent involved junior being told to spend the night in the living room. Are you saying that junior has objected to this new incident, and to "his" bedroom being used for a "bootie call"? Because for the first incident, for junior to be concerned about the "bootie call" only a day after-the-fact, somebody would have needed to alert him to what happened while he was asleep.

He would prefer that they use your futon, which presumably doubles as the living room couch during the daytime?

Basic facts of life: If junior is going to share a bedroom and bed with mom, she's occasionally going to kick him out so she can spend time with her boyfriend. It makes a lot more sense to do things that way, than for mom and her boyfriend to shut junior in the bedroom and tell him, "Don't come out." As you appear to be coming to realize, it's time to change this living and sleeping arrangement.

I'm only reading what you wrote. That's all I can do.

I am skeptical that the relationship was platonic up to that night.

I get that. But you appear to be under the impression that nobody else is going to have a problem with it - that it won't reflect at all on your judgment - should you involve protective services or should you end up in a custody battle.

You have told us that junior slept through the incident. You have told us that you discussed your concerns with your wife. You have told us that she promised it wouldn't happen again. You have told us that it hasn't happened again. Thus we're focusing on stuff junior might actually know about, as well as the other odd facts you have shared with us about your living arrangement.

Which also happens to be your wife's bed.

If you have had a full month to investigate the boyfriend (on top of your prior year's acquaintance) and have come up with nothing, or are not sufficiently concerned to have conducted any sort of investigation during that extended period, it does not seem surprising that the relationship has resumed. If you think there's dirt to dig up, grab a shovel and start digging.

Given what you've told us, by western cultural standards he's considerably past that age.

Have you ever done something while your child was asleep that you would not have done in front of him? With your wife, without your wife, with a bottle of scotch.... If he's asleep, he's asleep. Everybody demonstrates bad judgment at times, and while an incident of which the child is unaware can raise questions, the more pressing concerns will come from bad judgment calls made during the child's waking hours.

So, basically, you're crashing on your wife's couch?

If you can afford a $3,000 apartment, there's no excuse for you to be crashing on a futon in the living room of a one bedroom unit while mom shares a mattress on the floor with your son, instead of your obtaining an appropriately sized apartment where people can have appropriate sleeping arrangments and an appropriate amount of privacy. Or at least buying junior and mom a pair of twin beds and mattresses. The stores are still open....

---

OK, I can see that all that is happening here is my words are being dissected with an antagonistic point of view that is from the outset sympathetic to my son's mother. My original question never was the focus. I'm going to choose not to try to explain any futher, as it seems it will only be misunderstood and then used to raise yet more irrelevant questions. Feel free to judge me for disengaging from this conversation any way you please.

- - - Updated - - -

You keep inferring things from what I say, as does one other person, and this would go on forever without addressing my original question. I didn't bother to read your entire response, I just want to say a few things real quick then I'll be gone.

1. I am on the lease for my son's apartment and pay half the rent and all the food. To say that I am crashing on her couch is a mischaracterization of the facts.
2. My son's mother has a PhD and works for a large consulting firm and makes enough money to be independent with or without my assistance.
3. Regardles of what I have or have not ever done, the simple fact remains that my son's mother chose to have sex in the same bed as my son, and all I wanted to know is whether a law had been broken, in case it become relevant. I let this issue go initially as a one-time judgment error! As I've already stated, it is what happened since then that revived this matter.

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

OK, I can see that all that is happening here is my words are being dissected with an antagonistic point of view that is from the outset sympathetic to my son's mother.... I didn't bother to read your entire response....

---

You have no business whining about comments you haven't even bothered to read.

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

1. I am on the lease for my son's apartment and pay half the rent and all the food. To say that I am crashing on her couch is a mischaracterization of the facts.

---

No, it's pretty much what you said, even if you got your wife to add you to the lease and agreed to split the rent when you entered into the arrangement.

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

My son's mother has a PhD and works for a large consulting firm and makes enough money to be independent with or without my assistance.

---

And yet you all live in a one bedroom apartment, with you crashing on a futon in the living room and your wife sleeping with your son on a mattress on the floor. You're simply affirming my earlier point. If you were impoverished, you would at least have that as an excuse for having a one bedroom apartment with junior sleeping on a mattress on the floor with his mom. "She can afford a bed" is not an excuse for failing to arrange appropriate sleeping arrangements or furniture for your child.

Quote:

---

Quoting len6094

---

Regardles of what I have or have not ever done, the simple fact remains that my son's mother chose to have sex in the same bed as my son, and all I wanted to know is whether a law had been broken, in case it become relevant. I let this issue go initially as a one-time judgment error!

---

Yet you refuse to listen when that question is repeatedly, explicitly answered. And despite purporting that you "let this issue go", it's you who keeps coming back to it no matter what you are told.

If you want us to tell you that something that happened once, outside of your child's awareness, is the end of the world, while the various dubious choices you and your wife have made that affect him day and night are irrelevant, that's not going to happen. Not here, and not in court.

Ok, thanks for your effort.