State Rights Restored, but Federal Government Denies Firearms Rights
May be all states. Hopefully this is the right forum to ask this question in: 20 years ago I committed a Class B felony in the State of Washington. After 16 years I petitioned for, and received all my rights back including firearm rights. The Washington State Patrol records division, The Courts (of original conviction) and my attorney in Washington State have assured me that my rights have been returned and they have verified that copies were sent to the FBI several times in the last 4 years. But every time I go to buy a gun, the NCIS background check turns my purchase down. I have also appealed to the NCIS people and sent them my Certified Copies of my restoration papers. I have had no other crimes that excluded owning firearms before or since. And in the last 20 years I have never even received a traffic citation. I only have one felony from one instance, that's it.
My fear is that if I am stopped while hunting since I live in a different State than the one I was convicted in, could I be arrested? The state that I live in says in it's laws that if you have received your rights back, this state will respect that. But I am wondering what a local cop would say because of the NCIS still not approving me yet. I asked an attorney hear and he said that he just doesn't know how law enforcement would view it.
If I am stopped, would the dispatch tell the officer I am a convicted felon? Or would that info also show that my rights have been restored including firearms? If I am hunting on US Government property like the Forest Service, could I be arrested by a Federal Officer? I was turned down for a concealed weapons permit because the Sheriff told me in a note that he (being a politician) wouldn't sign it. But that I could take it to the district court and they would issue one. I have verified my identity with the Sheriff when I applied for the permit.
This has me a bit spooked. Can anyone give me an answer. It seems I'm in limbo land have the right papers but not all the right recognition from federal authorities. P.S. I checked, there is no Federal Law that prevents the Federal Government from recognizing me. Sorry for the long post.
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Is there no one who can answer this?
Re: State Rights Restored, but Federal Government Denies Firearms Rights
Your felony conviction was for what offense? What explanation was your attorney able to offer?
Re: State Rights Restored, but Federal Government Denies Firearms Rights
It was for a 2nd degree molestation and my attorney, the judge, the court and the Washington State Patrol all say I am now legal to own firearms and if I get arrested my attorney says he will fight that in court. But of course he isn't in the state I live in. He is in Washington state. I just want to make sure that even tho the NCIS check has been wrongfully turning me down, that The feds know I am legal to possess firearms even if they deny my right to purchase one.
Re: State Rights Restored, but Federal Government Denies Firearms Rights
Quote:
Quoting
Horsecreekridge
It was for a 2nd degree molestation....
RCW Sec. 9A.44.086?
Quote:
Quoting Horsecreekridge
I just want to make sure that even tho the NCIS check has been wrongfully turning me down, that The feds know I am legal to possess firearms even if they deny my right to purchase one.
There's every reason to expect that if checked, whatever it is in the NICS that's causing you to be turned down will be detected and cause law enforcement to conclude that you're not permitted to possess firearms.
Here's the NICS appeals process.
Re: State Rights Restored, but Federal Government Denies Firearms Rights
Quote:
I have also appealed to the NCIS people and sent them my Certified Copies of my restoration papers.
and their response was?
Re: State Rights Restored, but Federal Government Denies Firearms Rights
Local law enforcement will generally check you for wants and warrants, not for firearms eligibility. For instance, in my state there is no easy access to such a database, so it is not checked on a stop in the field. And, in my state, we cannot conduct a search of your criminal history without cause - and a detention in the field would not generally suffice. So, in most instances, if you come back clean and not on any form of supervised release, you would not have a problem.
However, if you are in a state where criminal history IS checked on a routine stop, or can be, then it might result in a hit for the conviction. In such a case, it might be in your interest to keep your clearance papers with you at all times to show that your state has restored your firearms rights.
Re: State Rights Restored, but Federal Government Denies Firearms Rights
Thank You Mr. cdwjava I do keep my papers on me just in case. And Mr. JK, I haven't gotten a response yet other than to tell me they are back logged and are working on it which I received in a letter from the NCIS people. And Mr. Knowitall, yes that is the statue. A class "B" felony. In Washington, you cannot get your firearms rights back if it is a class "A" felony. The state Supreme Court decided in Washington State vs R.P.H. docket number 82557-2 that a person with the papers that I have, is not barred from owning firearms. It also shows in my Washington State Criminal History Report obtained from the Washington State Patrol that my firearms rights have been restored. But because of the NCIS check turning me down. I am a bit nervous. I do not want to do anything that would again jeopardize my right to own firearms or indeed, my freedom. It has been twenty years since I was in trouble. Not even a traffic ticket since then. And only one charge ever on my criminal history. That is why I posted here. The stress of this is tremendous.
Re: State Rights Restored, but Federal Government Denies Firearms Rights
You may want to be careful with your terminology and acronyms ... who do you think the NCIS is? I know that agency as the Navy Criminal Investigative Service. To my knowledge, they will not hold your state criminal history records - or any state's, for that matter. They do not even hold military criminal history records - though they have access to them.
Do you mean the FBI's Criminal Justice Information System (aka CJIS)? Or, the FBI's National Crime Information center (aka NCIC)?
I do not think you will have a problem unless you are arrested somewhere else and they run your criminal history through NCIC's III (Interstate Identification Index). And if you hunt only in Washington, you should really have no problem.
Unfortunately, your criminal past will provide you with complications and no amount of prep will prevent the occasional wrinkle.
Re: State Rights Restored, but Federal Government Denies Firearms Rights
It is neither NCIS or NCIC. It is NICS, "The National Instant Background Check System."
Mr. K had it right along with the link to provide the information on how to clear yourself.
Re: State Rights Restored, but Federal Government Denies Firearms Rights
Quote:
Quoting
flyingron
It is neither NCIS or NCIC. It is NICS, "The National Instant Background Check System."
Mr. K had it right along with the link to provide the information on how to clear yourself.
I was not thinking firearm purchases, I was thinking records checks in the field by officers. As such NICS didn't even cross my mind. Good clarification.
Re: State Rights Restored, but Federal Government Denies Firearms Rights
Yes sorry about that, It is NICS. The National Instant Background Check System. It they who originally denied me. And I have sent them papers to correct the records. I sent the NICS team a letter part of which I'll reprint here and delete any reference to who I am. I have had several contacts with NICS trying to clear my record. Here is the copy of one of them with my response to it.
SUBJECT: Firearm Appeal
National Instant Criminal Background Check
System (NICS)
Dear Mr. XXXXXX:
This letter is in response to your inquiry concerning your
NICS transaction to purchase or redeem a firearm. The court
documentation and fingerprint you submitted are being returned.
Each NICS transaction is assigned a NICS Transaction Number (NTN)
by the FBI Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Division's
NICS Section, and that number is provided to the Federal Firearms
Licensee (FFL). You did not provide a valid NTN. Therefore, the
NICS Section is unable to process the appeal.
By way of background, during a NICS check, our computer
system searches several databases which contain records of persons
with disqualifying conduct. As a name- and descriptive-based system,
the computer program is designed to screen individuals within certain
name and descriptive data parameters. Under the Brady Handgun
Violence Prevention Act of 1993 (Brady Act), an FFL is required to
contact the NICS Section or state POC to determine if the NICS has
information which demoristrates the purchaser is prohibited from
acquiring a firearm under state or federal law.
In accordance with Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations,
Part 25.9(b) (iii), the NICS would have destroyed all identifying
information pertaining to the proceeded or delayed transactionj
therefore, the specific details surrounding proceeded or delayed
transactions are not available for review. The NICS Section cannot
confirm or address the circumstances surrounding the transaction.
Consequently, the NICS Section is unable to process your appeal
request.
If you have any questions regarding this communication,
you may contact the NICS Section's Customer Service at
1-877-FBI-NICS (324-6427).
NICS Section
CJIS Division
And my response to that letter.
Federal Bureau of Investigation
NICS Section
Appeal Services Team, Module A-1
Post Office Box 4278
Clarksburg, WV 26302-9922
Dear Sirs or Madam,
On Jun 8th XXXX, I mailed an appeal of my being turned down to purchase a firearm. The NICS CJIS divison mailed my appeal back to me saying that the NTN# XXXX-XXX is not a valid number. The gun shop and I contacted the NICS Examiner Cecilia #1295, and she informed us that it was a valid number and she had no problem finding the information. She then told me to resubmit the paper work that I had sent. So I am doing so.
I am enclosing my original Letter of Appeal, and the letter the NICS CJIS Divison sent me. I am asking that the information in my file be updated to show that I am legal to own firearms by restoration of firearms rights by the original court of conviction. Thank You for you help in this matter.
The Washington Supreme Court had a case similar to mine where it stated that a person who has an order “Authorizing The Petitioner To Be Relieved Of The Duty To Register” as I do, has been “Rehabilitated” according to the courts. So I also enclosed that information in this letter.
Dear Sirs and or Ma'am.
I have enclosed that Washington State Supreme Court decision that states : In sum, we consider the superior courts order discharging R.P.H. From the nessesity of registering as a sex offender to be equivalent to a “Certificate of Rehabilitation” under RCW 9.41.040 (3). I have underlined it in red on the Washington Courts Opinion Information Sheet that I have enclosed for you. This shows that I have a “Certificate of Rehabilitation” according to the courts.
I have also enclosed the “Order Restoring Right to Own Firearms” signed on 30 July 2009,
And the “Order Relieving Petitioner To Be Relieved Of The Duty To Register As A Sex Offender” Under R.C.W. 9A.44.140 (3) (a). Signed on XX February XXXX.
And the “Certificate And Order Of Discharge” signed on XX JAN XXXX.
Plus I have enclosed the Washington State Patrol Criminal History report showing that my right to own firearms has been restored by the courts, and by the State Of Washington. I have underlined in red the restoration order. In conclusion, please update my records to show that I am legally eligible to own firearms. Thank You for your consideration.
Signed XXXXXXXX
I have now done another letter to the NICS folks giving them copies of all my paper work. I'm now just waiting for a response. It's been 6 weeks since I sent this last attempt. I do appreciate the help you guys have given me. And I will keep you posted if and when I receive a response from NICS.