What Happens if the Police Draw on Somebody Who is Legally Openly Carrying a Weapon

My question involves criminal law for the state of: New Hampshire

If I were to walk around with a firearm on my side, and an uneducated cop was called to the scene to see what's up, and pulled a weapon on me, would it be lawful to retaliate by drawing my weapon as well? more and more i come across uneducated cops who don't know basic laws, and stomp on people's constitutional rights. If i was just minding my own business walking down the street, and an unbadged person pointed a weapon at me i would do the same to them. so why shouldn't the same apply to an uneducated cop who thinks im breaking the law by carrying a weapon?

You simply cooperate. You are armed and until they know more about you, they are within reason to consider you a potential threat. If you were to draw your weapon, it could end in your death.

If you are referring to an officer coming up to you for no reason and stopping you at gunpoint, you can file a complaint if you wish after everything is cleared up. You can also consult a lawyer about suing, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

this world and this country is a very ****ed up place. cops think they're gods, and the law backs them up on that. I guess cops on a power trip are just something ill have to deal with. the term "badges don't grant extra rights" is pretty much false from what I can tell.

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Quoting Steve Newell

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My question involves criminal law for the state of: New Hampshire

If I were to walk around with a firearm on my side, and an uneducated cop was called to the scene to see what's up, and pulled a weapon on me, would it be lawful to retaliate by drawing my weapon as well? more and more i come across uneducated cops who don't know basic laws, and stomp on people's constitutional rights. If i was just minding my own business walking down the street, and an unbadged person pointed a weapon at me i would do the same to them. so why shouldn't the same apply to an uneducated cop who thinks im breaking the law by carrying a weapon?

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are you seriously this dumb?


If a cop pulls his weapon, you do exactly as he says which is not going to be to draw your weapon. Pulling your weapon is a great way to get shot, and rightfully so.

Thanks for sharing. <---That was for Steve and not jk, whose post appeared at the same time and above mine.

@free9man thanks for the reply

@jk how does asking that make me dumb? because im against giving badges to idiots who cant get a real job? people who dropped out of highschool and have no knowledge of law other than maybe some traffic laws. these people are handed a badge and told they can threaten innocent people's lives with a weapon because they dont know how to determine the difference between a law-abiding citizen and a threatening individual. maybe i should become a cop in your city so i can point a gun at your head and say i felt threatened. would you like that?

Some people are so eager to make trouble for themselves or others.

The standard practice for somebody with a firearm in the vehicle, upon being pulled over, is to inform the officer of the firearm and that they're carrying it lawfully. If you don't tell the officer about a firearm, what would you expect the officer to do if he spots it? Smile passively while giving you time to grab it and shoot him?

If you're walking down the street, lawfully openly carrying a firearm, and an officer confronts you, you had best keep your hands where the officer can see them. If there's reason to believe that criminal activity is involved, the officer can't know in advance that your intentions are good. Assuming they are good.

If you draw your weapon on an officer, you should expect to die.

I'd like to know if this has actually happened to the OP, or if he is just anticipating something that may never happen.

And what makes you think all cops are uneducated? I know a couple with graduate degrees.

FALSE. you're not required to tell an officer that you're armed. and i didnt say anything about being in a vehicle. if a cop cant handle the stress brought on by their job (dealing with armed civilians), they should find a new career, not threaten the innocent.

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@cbg just a "what if" situation

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Quoting Steve Newell

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If I were to walk around with a firearm on my side, and an uneducated cop was called to the scene to see what's up, and pulled a weapon on me, would it be lawful to retaliate by drawing my weapon as well?

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Let's see ... officer has gun on you, and you go for yours ... you REALLY want to try that!? :wallbang:

Any incident will be evaluated on the facts of that particular incident. No one could reasonably say you would or would not be justified without first knowing all of the facts including an evaluation of what the officer knew or believed at the time of the contact. However, I suspect you'd likely be dead if that happened. I know that if I had cause to draw down on you, and you then went for YOUR gun, I'd likely have opened up on you before you could clear leather.

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Quoting Steve Newell

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@jk how does asking that make me dumb? because im against giving badges to idiots who cant get a real job? people who dropped out of highschool and have no knowledge of law other than maybe some traffic laws. these people are handed a badge and told they can threaten innocent people's lives with a weapon because they dont know how to determine the difference between a law-abiding citizen and a threatening individual. maybe i should become a cop in your city so i can point a gun at your head and say i felt threatened. would you like that?

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Wow ... the standards in NH must have dropped recently.

If you really think that cops are all a bunch of lame-brained, power hungry high school dropouts, nothing that anyone can say or do will change that false impression you have. So, what, exactly, is your point in engaging in this vitriolic diatribe?

@cdwjava well maybe you shouldn't be pulling a weapon on someone who hasn't committed a crime. also, LRN2ENGLISH. can you quote me on that statement? "cops are all a bunch of lame-brained, power hungry high school dropouts" a vast majority are just that, but i never said all.

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Quoting Steve Newell

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well maybe you shouldn't be pulling aweapon on someone who hasn't committed a crime

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And you do not know what the officer knows. The police can draw their weapons for a variety of reasons - KNOWING that someone has committed a crime is only one of many.

Bottom line is that all because YOU do not believe the officer has no legal grounds to draw his weapon on you does not mean there are no legal grounds. You do not know what the officer knows, and it is unlikely that he is going to give you the opportunity to draw your weapon before he engages you in conversation about it. the first thing the officer will do will be to gain control of the situation (likely detaining and disarming you) and THEN discuss it.

If you wish to be educated on the subject - I mean TRULY educated on use of force protocols - perhaps you should ask to speak to an expert in this area at an academy in your state. I suspect they can articulate to you the statutory and case law in NH that might make the officer's actions lawful or unlawful.

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FALSE. you're not required to tell an officer that you're armed. and i didnt say anything about being in a vehicle.

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Your state might not REQUIRE you to declare that you're carrying, but you'd be a fool not to. It's just good sense, so you don't get your ass shot. In a vehicle, out of a vehicle, whatever, doesn't matter. "Officer, I'm lawfully carrying" can be the difference between "OK, let me see your permit" and presenting in the ER with a GSW (or a bad case of dead).

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@cbg just a "what if" situation

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We don't really do "wishful thinking" here. Cops don't typically make a habit of drawing on civvies just because they see a holstered weapon in an open carry state.

Click the link. then try telling me i'm wrong about the majority of police. http://www.youtube.com/results?searc....1.edGahuJSGv0

Oh, pookie. You mistake me for someone who actually cares about your paranoia.

@LawResearcherMissy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g71VfyHiWPA

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whoever moved the thread and renamed it, thanks :)

This is why we have natural selection.

@LawResearcherMissy Paranoia and Mistrust of the Government and public servants is very healthy for society. what if nobody stood up to Nazi Germany? they had the similar strategies as our current government has now. disarm the people and control every aspect of their lives. a republic is supposed to be controlled by the people, but everything is controlled by politics, money, and big corporations these days.

I have lived in NH. I have worked in one of NH's small rural towns. I still live in a small rural town in a neighboring state. I have yet to see a police officer of the description of the OP.

Here's the deal. First, you are getting accurate answers. If you break leather on a uniformed officer who has you at gunpoint, you go from a live innocent law-abiding open carrying citizen to an armed (and likely dead) felon.

Second, are there bad officers? You betcha, even Carl concedes that if you ask him. But the majority are well-trained, well-informed people doing a job they love to better society and want nothing more than 2 things. The first is to go home alive and in one piece at the end of their shift. The second is never to have to take another person's life. They accept it may come to that but they don't go looking for it. If put in a situation where it becomes necessary you can bet they had no choice and if given the opportunity, did everything they could to avoid it.

@cbg things like this are much less frequent in this area than in more populated areas, but corrupt & stupid police officers still exists.

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@free9man basically the abridged version of my opinion is... you're walking down the street carrying a firearm. a cop sees it and immediately points a deadly weapon at you because they can't handle the stress of possibly risking their life. THEY NEED TO FIND A DIFFERENT CAREER. risk is part of the job. just because you cant handle that risk doesn't mean you should put someone else's life in danger by pointing a weapon at them. an officer that draws a gun on someone who hasnt broken the law and isnt doing anything actually threatening, than that cop should be charge with ATLEAST criminal threatening.

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Quoting Steve Newell

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Click the link. then try telling me i'm wrong about the majority of police. http://www.youtube.com/results?searc....1.edGahuJSGv0

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Ah, yes ... Youtube and anecdotal, absent-any-context, edited impressions of sporadic incidents over a period of years. In your minds this is objective evidence of your contention that police are uneducated, unqualified, thuggish, and a host of other negative adjectives?

First, NYPD is hardly indicative of all police. Second, the NYPD is the largest municipal law enforcement agency in the United States and even one percent of the department being bad apples would mean about 350 bad officers. Third, your contention of high school dropouts is wrong for most every department in the United states - including New Hampshire and NYPD as both require AT least a high school diploma or GED equivalent. Fourth, education does not make a good cop. One can have all the degrees in the world and be a crappy cop. Likewise, one can be a great cop without ANY college. Some of the best officers I have had the privilege of knowing lacked any higher education. What they possessed was a keen ability to understand and deal with people - victims and suspects.

But, I doubt you truly want to hear anything that might run contrary to your paradigm. If you truly want to learn, speak to a use of force expert at your state's academy.

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what if nobody stood up to Nazi Germany?

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My grandfather rolled into Ohrdruf-Buchenwald at the age of 19, PFC with the 89th Infantry Rolling Ws. Don't you DARE try to compare your paranoia with his honorable service - he earned a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star. All you're earning is eyerolls.

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they had the similar strategies as our current government has now. disarm the people and control every aspect of their lives.

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Learn you some history, bub. German gun registration laws came into effect during the Weimar Republic in 1928. The Nazi regime rose to power in spite of gun control, not because of it.

I'm sure you have public libraries in New Hampshire. Avail yourself of one instead of parroting Fox News and ill-researched Facebook nonsense.

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Quoting Steve Newell

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@free9man basically the abridged version of my opinion is... you're walking down the street carrying a firearm. a cop sees it and immediately points a deadly weapon at you because they can't handle the stress of possibly risking their life. THEY NEED TO FIND A DIFFERENT CAREER. risk is part of the job.

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RISK is part of the job, but stupidity is not.

If the officer has some reason to believe he is at risk, he can and should take appropriate steps to safeguard himself and others. If that means drawing his weapon and aiming it, then that may be what it takes. You would certainly be free to complain to his agency later on and they could evaluate his actions within the context of the law and agency policy. You also might be able to sue him under your state's laws if he was unable to articulate good cause to brandish his weapon at you.

I can tell you from many years of experience that I would almost certainly have my weapon out and at the low ready if I intended to contact or confront someone that I knew to be carrying a firearm. I might even decide to engage in a high profile contact (i.e. prone the person out). Or, I might simply keep it low key and give very clear instructions on where to keep their hands and inform the person that if they move their hands towards the gun they will be shot.

But, any evaluation of the situation would require an evaluation of the totality of the circumstances.

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Quoting free9man

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Here's the deal. First, you are getting accurate answers. If you break leather on a uniformed officer who has you at gunpoint, you go from a live innocent law-abiding open carrying citizen to an armed (and likely dead) felon.

Second, are there bad officers? You betcha, even Carl concedes that if you ask him. But the majority are well-trained, well-informed people doing a job they love to better society and want nothing more than 2 things. The first is to go home alive and in one piece at the end of their shift. The second is never to have to take another person's life. They accept it may come to that but they don't go looking for it. If put in a situation where it becomes necessary you can bet they had no choice and if given the opportunity, did everything they could to avoid it.

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Agreed!

There ARE bad officers! A very few are real bad, but most that are bad are simply poorly trained or poorly supervised such that they make some bad choices or mistakes. There is an entire sociological dynamic that goes on within the police subculture that could take up many hours of discussion here ... but this is not the place. But, when citizens seek to create a confrontation they are asking for trouble because, by and large, the law is with the officer. If an officer confronts J.Q. Citizen walking with a pistol on his hip and an officer draws down on him, Mr. Citizen had best learn to comply with the direction of the officer and address the matter later through complaints or the courts, or he will likely relegate that responsibility to his surviving heirs.

Hmmm...should have done this previously. Posting hx, folks.

It's amazing that one could pose a question concerning responsible gun ownwership, then pose such a ridiculously stupid scenario as the example. If a responsible gun owner has so much paranoia within him/herself that s/he would draw on a police officer rather than have the situation diffused, that person has no business owning a firearm. This board is filled with posters of all races and political beliefs. But I have not seen one thought that cosigns to your madness. People have the right to bear arms and all that jazz, but we also have the responsibility to do it properly.

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Quoting cbg

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Hmmm...should have done this previously. Posting hx, folks.

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Are you referring to his stubborn nature or the fact that OP apparently seeks out conflict?

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Quoting Steve Newell

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FALSE. you're not required to tell an officer that you're armed.

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Nobody said you have to tell an officer about your weapon. Smart people do so voluntarily. Dumb people fume about how unfair it is that police officers are paid a salary, daydream about drawing their weapons on officers, and otherwise do stupid things that might inspire the officer to draw on them, or even to potentially shoot them.

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Quoting Steve Newell

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@LawResearcherMissy Paranoia and Mistrust of the Government and public servants is very healthy for society. what if nobody stood up to Nazi Germany? they had the similar strategies as our current government has now. disarm the people and control every aspect of their lives. a republic is supposed to be controlled by the people, but everything is controlled by politics, money, and big corporations these days.

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You apparently know as much about history as you do about gun safety. But sure, amuse us... tell us about these "strategies".

He seeks out conflict, rarely makes a valid point, is incredibly stubborn, uses NYPD as an example for his question that concerns NH. There is no reality in what this kid thinks. Considering that he comes out the gate looking for confrontation seriously undermines his ability to get an answer that would be palatable. He's looking again for confrontation.

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Quoting viol8te

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He seeks out conflict, rarely makes a valid point, is incredibly stubborn, uses NYPD as an example for his question that concerns NH. There is no reality in what this kid thinks. Considering that he comes out the gate looking for confrontation seriously undermines his ability to get an answer that would be palatable. He's looking again for confrontation.

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and the operative word is "kid".

I was right next to my unarmed friend who was sitting in his own complex and when a cop pulled a gun on him out of nowhere,scared the hell out me and him. It goes both ways,a cop may go up to a car and one time out of thousand get shot,they got be very careful. All these people giving you grief if they were in your shoes and had some satiation where a cop acted completely wrong it cause you to change your mindset on police. If they see you walking down the street you could be dangerous,they really have no idea. The police see an unknown man with a gun they got be careful,that's the bottom line. I see where your coming from they probably acted wrong a lot of times. Like I said before have a few bad encounters with cops,especially when they are completely in the wrong,it definitely changes your mindset.

When you post under your real name... Wow. I mean, wow. Just... wow.

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Quoting Steve Newell

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PRIVACY NOTICE: Warning - any person and/or institution and/or Agent and/or Agency of any governmental structure including but not limited to the United States Federal Government also using or monitoring/using this website or any of its associated websites, you do NOT have my permission to utilize any of my profile information nor any of the content contained herein including, but not limited to my photos, and/or the comments made about my photos or any other "picture" art posted on my profile. You are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing, disseminating, or taking any other action against me with regard to this profile and the contents herein. The foregoing prohibitions also apply to your employee, agent, student or any personnel under your direction or control. The contents of this profile are private and legally privileged and confidential information, and the violation of my personal privacy is punishable by law. UCC 1-103 1-308 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED WITHOUT PREJUDICE

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Here, let me help you out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDHDM7PfyYs

Yeah...I'd propbably think he was a little sketchy at first sight. 2nd sight, 3rd. You get the picture.

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Quoting Steve Newell

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My question involves criminal law for the state of: New Hampshire

If I were to walk around with a firearm on my side, and an uneducated cop was called to the scene to see what's up, and pulled a weapon on me, would it be lawful to retaliate by drawing my weapon as well? more and more i come across uneducated cops who don't know basic laws, and stomp on people's constitutional rights. If i was just minding my own business walking down the street, and an unbadged person pointed a weapon at me i would do the same to them. so why shouldn't the same apply to an uneducated cop who thinks im breaking the law by carrying a weapon?

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you would be killed on the spot and your next of kin would lose their wrongful death suit, your life insurance would likely refuse to pay out declaring your death "suicide by cop"

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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When you post under your real name... Wow. I mean, wow. Just... wow.

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Oh, great! He's a Juggalo!

And he really thinks that some rambling "privacy notice" can prevent the police or any government agency from viewing or copying a posting available on the internet to anyone?!? Really!?

I don't know about you, but it scared me from doing it. I was just about to use his pic for a "Catfish" scam when I picked up on his disclaimer.

That may have been the most amusing and appropriate video I have ever seen. Any way we could work it into the TOS?

This whole thread is nuts. Why not ask why you can't coat yourself in gravy and poke a pit bull? Or cover yourself in honey and molest a bear? Jump in front of a moving train and demand it to stop?

If you are carrying a weapon, you need to have more sense than this. Given the posturing and demands made, I am not sure I would trust the OP with anything sharper than a used crayon.

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Why not ask why you can't coat yourself in gravy and poke a pit bull?

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Well now, there's no reason you can't do that. Just be prepared to be held down by 60+ pounds of pure muscle and licked until all the gravy is gone. I speak from experience.

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Quoting LawResearcherMissy

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Well now, there's no reason you can't do that. Just be prepared to be held down by 60+ pounds of pure muscle and licked until all the gravy is gone. I speak from experience.

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I will admit that most Pits I have met are really sweet dogs. We might as well hijack this craptastic thread and talk about animals.

Would you feel better if I set "coat yourself in gravy and give a lion a roeshambo"?

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Quoting LawResearcherMissy

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Well now, there's no reason you can't do that. Just be prepared to be held down by 60+ pounds of pure muscle and licked until all the gravy is gone. I speak from experience.

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So you are saying that you have, in fact, coated yourself in gravy and poked a pit bull? ;)