Can You Defend Against a Speeding Ticket by Arguing that the Signs are Unfair

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Quoting climber

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I've contacted a couple that I found via their websites but received no response so far.

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Simply because a competent qualified attorney who can charge a few hundred dollars an hour is not likely to want to fiddle with a traffic speeding case where the fine is less that his/her hourly rate.

Now, unless you're at risk of losing your license as a result of too many violation points, and rather than spend $1000 to $1500+ on attorney fees for a ticket which you may/may not win, simply pay the fine and take traffic school which based on a 10mph over the limit the officer cited you for, should run you less than $300.

If you were caught with radar or lidar, get the Engineering and Traffic Survey for that section of road and post it here.
California changed the law in 2009 regarding how traffic engineers can choose speed limits. If the survey is newer than July 2009 and they used the old rules for rounding, it might be an illegal speed trap. If the survey shows the 85%ile speed was 37 mph, and they legally set the speed limit at 30 mph due to a high accident rate, then you can sleep better knowing that 85% of the traffic travels 8 mph lower than the speed you were clocked at.

I imagine you'd ask CalTrans District 9 for the survey.

Good luck,
Derek

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Quoting That Guy

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Now, unless you're at risk of losing your license as a result of too many violation points, and rather than spend $1000 to $1500+ on attorney fees for a ticket which you may/may not win, simply pay the fine and take traffic school which based on a 10mph over the limit the officer cited you for, should run you less than $300.

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This is unsolicited and unwelcome advice. After 12 years of no tickets I got two in the same location in two months. I cannot go to traffic school for the second. Money is not an issue as I said before. It's about principle, because it was an unfair ticket. If you cannot answer my question, please save your advice for someone who asks for it.

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Quoting climber

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This is unsolicited and unwelcome advice. After 12 years of no tickets I got two in the same location in two months. I cannot go to traffic school for the second. Money is not an issue as I said before. It's about principle, because it was an unfair ticket. If you cannot answer my question, please save your advice for someone who asks for it.

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The financial aspect of the equation is always something to consider, so TG's advice is not ill-considered. If you want to stand your ground because you believe you were cited unfairly, that's fine. But, as he points out, the cost to simply roll the dice (not counting travel and time off of work or other activities to make two or more hearings) could exceed three to five times the cost of the citation. It is your right to fight the citation. But, you should be informed and take into consideration your chances of prevailing and the costs of standing your ground. If it is worth it to you, bravo! Go for it! But, do not criticize someone for pointing out the facts to you. If all you want are high fives and hand slaps, then this is not the place.

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Quoting cdwjava

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But, do not criticize someone for pointing out the facts to you. If all you want are high fives and hand slaps, then this is not the place.

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My criticism is for the boilerplate advice without having read the particulars of this thread. I'm well aware of the facts, and I asked a simple question. Ditto for the high fives and hand slaps. I'd add that this is not the place to preach either.

I think there are still a couple CA gurus you haven't insulted. Keep it up and you'll find yourself not getting any help. How do you know he didn't read the particulars and that was the only advise he had? Perhaps he believes you have no case or that arguing your case would be more expensive (regardless of outcome) than just taking traffic school. Trust me, TG is very knowledgeable and if you ask real nice...I'm sure he'd be happy to de-construct any defense you think you have.

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Quoting derekt2

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If you were caught with radar or lidar, get the Engineering and Traffic Survey for that section of road and post it here.
I imagine you'd ask CalTrans District 9 for the survey.

Good luck,
Derek

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Thanks. I have the survey, it's from May 2012. It contains data such as:

Observed speed (Critical): two blue lines associated to ranges of values for different sections.
Observed speed (Pace): two red lines associated to pair of ranges of values. Not sure why there are pairs of ranges (e.g. 23-32 * 25-34).
Accident rates (MVM and average). I assume average is how many accidents per year happen in that stretch of road? It's less than 1 (lowest .79, highest .93, seems low to me).

No information about percentiles. What useful information can I glean from this? Thanks.

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Quoting climber

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Thanks. I have the survey, it's from May 2012. It contains data such as:

Observed speed (Critical): two blue lines associated to ranges of values for different sections.
Observed speed (Pace): two red lines associated to pair of ranges of values. Not sure why there are pairs of ranges (e.g. 23-32 * 25-34).
Accident rates (MVM and average). I assume average is how many accidents per year happen in that stretch of road? It's less than 1 (lowest .79, highest .93, seems low to me).

No information about percentiles. What useful information can I glean from this? Thanks.

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If you scan the survey and post it here, using a file-hosting service, folks can see if there are any avenues for you to pursue.

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Quoting free9man

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I think there are still a couple CA gurus you haven't insulted. Keep it up and you'll find yourself not getting any help. How do you know he didn't read the particulars and that was the only advise he had? Perhaps he believes you have no case or that arguing your case would be more expensive (regardless of outcome) than just taking traffic school. Trust me, TG is very knowledgeable and if you ask real nice...I'm sure he'd be happy to de-construct any defense you think you have.

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I have not insulted anyone, nor intend to do so. Please read my original and subsequent posts if you believe I have. I had stated that this was the second ticket in two months, so traffic school was out of the question. I had finished traffic school the week before the ticket, and I was being beyond careful as I drove through that town for that reason. I had also answered the money question to a previous poster.

I was absolutely flabbergasted when the officer stopped me from speeding, as I had spent the whole drive paying extreme attention to speed limits. Maybe I had too much information in my original post and it was hard to read, if so I apologize as it was my first post on this site.

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Quoting climber

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My criticism is for the boilerplate advice without having read the particulars of this thread.

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I'm pretty sure he read the particulars. The problem is that many posters think their situation is unique and that the details they believe are important really are not. The issue will come down to whether the speed was posted, whether the posted speed was appropriate based upon the survey, or whether you can make an argument that your speed was NOT unsafe given the conditions at the time.

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I'm well aware of the facts, and I asked a simple question. Ditto for the high fives and hand slaps. I'd add that this is not the place to preach either.

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Who's preaching what? That people should be responsible for their actions? Sure. That form of advice is free just like the legal advice.