Disregard of an Illuminated No Turn Arrow
My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Washington
I was pulled over last Friday and cited for RCW 46.61.050. I was headed northbound on Kirkland Way and came to a complete stop at the intersection when I saw it turn yellow. I then proceeded to make my right turn onto NE 85th Street heading east after stopping quickly when the light turned red. At this recently updated intersection, there is a now an illuminated no turn sign that turns for Kirkland Way traffic when the 114th Ave NE traffic signal turns green. The officer that pulled me over on NE 85th from behind was most likely front in line for the 114th Ave NE traffic signal; hence, he was able to catch up to me and pull me over just pass I-405.
Long story short, the officer said that I turned when that illuminated no turn arrow was on. I told the officer I saw no such arrow when I turned and stuck to that story. Basically I told him I did not see and am not aware of an illuminated no turn arrow at that traffic signal. I was cited at the scene and left immediately. It was around 7pm, dark, and the officer was in a dark blue Ford Expedition.
Last night, I came back to the scene and took some photos and videos of the traffic signal where I was accused of disobeying. There is exactly 3 seconds between the time my traffic light on Kirkland Ave turns red and the No Turn Arrow control device illuminates. The sign illumination coincides directly with the oncoming NE 114th signal turning green.
From reading posts on this forum, it sounds like I have no chance of winning this case based on whether I was guilty or not using the I had a 3 second window before the No turn arrow illuminates argument.
I'm going to submit my ticket to the Kirkland courthouse today marked as Contest. I'll also be retrieving the Discovery documents after I receive my Contest Hearing date. Hopefully I find some good leverage there.
Does anyone here have any additional advice for me? I'm contemplating just hiring a traffic lawyer to ease the pain of argument, but I'm concerned that a lawyer will get the same outcome as me.
I am currently eligible for deferral and have no tickets on record. The cost of deferral is $200 + cost of the $124 ticket according to the form I retrieved through Kirkland Muni. web site. The last ticket I got was when I was 16 years old and that was dismissed after a year of probation. Basically I have 12 years of clean driving history.
Video, Map, and Pictures here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8756135...7632479655123/
Re: Fail to Obey Traffic Control Device (Illuminated No Turn Arrow)-Washington
Is there any other sign that says no right on red? Do you know if this sign is only in operation between certain hours? You may stand a chance of winning if the officer could not see the sign from his vantage point. I haven't been through that intersection for over a year and a half.
Re: Fail to Obey Traffic Control Device (Illuminated No Turn Arrow)-Washington
Quote:
Quoting
Speedy Gonzalez
Is there any other sign that says no right on red? Do you know if this sign is only in operation between certain hours? You may stand a chance of winning if the officer could not see the sign from his vantage point. I haven't been through that intersection for over a year and a half.
No other signs at this intersection. The sign which is hard to see clearly in the pictures/videos is simply a right turn arrow with an X through it. The sign operates at all hours of the day and only lights up when the traffic signal for NE 114th St is green for vehicles turning left and/or going straight. The no turn sign was installed after the intersection was redone/updated 6 months ago. Basically since both lanes on NE 114th are free to turn left, they don't want traffic on Kirkland Ave to turn into them while making a right.
If the officer was sitting in the left turn lane on 114th NE, there's no chance he was able to clearly see the no turn arrow which would be the sign post right above his patrol car facing away from him. I believe the officer was under the impression that if his light is about to turn green or is green, that the no turn sign would be on for me.
The discovery documents will hopefully give me an idea of where the officer was at the time I made the turn. I'm pretty certain he was across from me on 114th NE because that was the only group of cars that turned and ended up directly behind me. There was a pretty large gap between me and the cars turning left onto NE 85th from 114th Ave NE. I didn't get flashing lights until he caught up to me 25-30 seconds later right underneath I-405 headed east.
I'll work on getting better photos during the day. Google maps still shows the old intersection.
Re: Fail to Obey Traffic Control Device (Illuminated No Turn Arrow)-Washington
Sounds to me that you have a real chance to get this one thrown out depending on what the officer says in his report. Whether or not a judge will buy the story is a different issue.
What I would do is get a hold of the city planner's office and see if you can get the schematic/blueprint/whatever for that light and HOW exactly it is wired up to run. $10 says they took the easy route and wired it to the green lamp power for the opposing side of the street. That's why it does not turn on until the light goes green, and explains the pause in the light coming on. You would be able to confirm this by going across the street and watching when the no turn light turns off. I would almost bet another $10 says it is as soon as the signal turns from green turns yellow.... but it is possible they wired it through a diode or solid state relay or something to make it run when green or yellow are lit. At any rate, it will be interesting to see if I am right.
Had they done it correctly, they would have just changed out the right turn lane bulb for a red arrow, and put up a no right turn on red sign. (This screams money maker to me --- something stinks)
Re: Fail to Obey Traffic Control Device (Illuminated No Turn Arrow)-Washington
Quote:
Quoting
Speedy Gonzalez
Sounds to me that you have a real chance to get this one thrown out depending on what the officer says in his report. Whether or not a judge will buy the story is a different issue.
What I would do is get a hold of the city planner's office and see if you can get the schematic/blueprint/whatever for that light and HOW exactly it is wired up to run. $10 says they took the easy route and wired it to the green lamp power for the opposing side of the street. That's why it does not turn on until the light goes green, and explains the pause in the light coming on. You would be able to confirm this by going across the street and watching when the no turn light turns off. I would almost bet another $10 says it is as soon as the signal turns from green turns yellow.... but it is possible they wired it through a diode or solid state relay or something to make it run when green or yellow are lit. At any rate, it will be interesting to see if I am right.
Had they done it correctly, they would have just changed out the right turn lane bulb for a red arrow, and put up a no right turn on red sign. (This screams money maker to me --- something stinks)
You are correct about the delay. The no turn arrow simultaneously turns on when the signal for NE 114th turns green. As to whether they installed a diode to handle both green and yellow, I'll need to confirm.
The 3 second delay after the traffic light turning red for Kirkland Way is totally deceiving. It gives a total false impression that we're free to make a right turn there after stopping on red. The no turn arrow should really illuminate after 1 second to give those turning on yellow to red to get through their turn. In this circumstance, I was better off blowing the yellow to red and not stopping at all. The officer would have thought my traffic light was still green or yellow with a 3 second delay.
Does the officer actually have to see the no turn arrow illuminating to prove that I was guilty or can he assume it was illuminated if his traffic signal was green?
Also, what would the purpose of retrieving an official schematic/diagram of how the traffic control device is wired? Is this to prove that there is a 3 second delay for someone to still turn right on red? Just thinking out loud here-if the officer states that I turned after his traffic signal turned green, I'm still in the wrong. The only thing I can think of would be the 3 second delay prompting me to go because there was nothing indicating that I couldn't turn.
Thanks for all the advice!
Re: Fail to Obey Traffic Control Device (Illuminated No Turn Arrow)-Washington
If the officer could not see the sign, he is likely assuming that it was on when you turned unless he is very familiar with the timing and knows exactly when the light turns on. Up to the point the light turns on, the turn is legal to initiate.. He will have to establish two things: 1. You turned on a red light. 2. The no turn light was lit before you initiated your turn and actually entered the intersection.
File for a contested hearing and file a formal discovery request. See this thread. Scan/photograph the response, redact case numbers and personal information, then post it to a picture hosting site and link it here.
I found out when it was installed.... December 8th.
Quote:
Quoting From KOMO
http://kirkland.komonews.com/news/tr...114th-thursday
Northbound drivers on Kirkland Way who are used to making free right turns on red after stopping, will see new signage to tell drivers when it’s safe to execute a right turn. A no-right-on-red sign will light during phases of the signal when turning right is not allowed; this lit sign will turn off for other traffic signal phases when it’s safe to make a free right turn.
Which lead me on a little search... http://www.kirklandwa.gov/Assets/Cit...LienPeriod.pdf
Quote:
Quoting From the document
Additional improvements to the intersection include a new traffic signal, video detection, CCTV
cameras...
If what that document says is TRUE, then you may be able to subpoena VIDEO of the alleged infraction! I would call the Kirkland transportation department and see if they had the cameras rolling on the date in question. :D
Re: Fail to Obey Traffic Control Device (Illuminated No Turn Arrow)-Washington
Quote:
Quoting
Speedy Gonzalez
If the officer could not see the sign, he is likely assuming that it was on when you turned unless he is very familiar with the timing and knows exactly when the light turns on. Up to the point the light turns on, the turn is legal to initiate.. He will have to establish two things: 1. You turned on a red light. 2. The no turn light was lit
before you initiated your turn and actually entered the intersection.
File for a contested hearing and file a formal discovery request. See
this thread. Scan/photograph the response, redact case numbers and personal information, then post it to a picture hosting site and link it here.
I found out when it was installed.... December 8th.
Which lead me on a little search...
http://www.kirklandwa.gov/Assets/Cit...LienPeriod.pdf
If what that document says is TRUE, then you may be able to subpoena VIDEO of the alleged infraction! I would call the Kirkland transportation department and see if they had the cameras rolling on the date in question. :D
Thanks so much for doing the research. I did not notice you updated your post until today. I was literally about to go file for my Discovery documents.
I just contacted the Public Works, Kirkland's transportation department. The cameras are currently not recording video. Their eventual plan is to get it up and running similar to the WSDOT cameras.
My hearing is on March 6th. I guess my next question is whether I should wait until I'm closer to the 14 days from the hearing date to file for Discovery or just do it now. I personally want to do it sooner than later, so I have more time to assess my options (i.e. ask for deferral or get a lawyer). Any advice?
Thanks again.
Re: Fail to Obey Traffic Control Device (Illuminated No Turn Arrow)-Washington
You may also want to find out if the no right turn signal is equipped with a "tattle tale" indicator. In some jurisdictions, an auxiliary light is provided to indicate when the sign/signal is operating. That informs traffic enforcement officers when the sign/signal is displayed when they are not in a position to directly observe the sign/signal. Those lights only display when the sign/signal is actually on.
Re: Fail to Obey Traffic Control Device (Illuminated No Turn Arrow)-Washington
Good call AZDeputyClerk.
As for discovery, wait util 14 calendar days before court to serve it and file it.
Re: Fail to Obey Traffic Control Device (Illuminated No Turn Arrow)-Washington
Got my discovery documents in the mail today.
Link below:
Officer's sworn statement scan:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87561354@N07/8501108605/
Infraction scan from discovery:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87561354@N07/8502260684/
What do you guys think?