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  • 11-24-2012, 02:02 AM
    matt4200
    Bond Increased Without Justification
    My question involves civil rights in the State of: CA

    So my friend who is on probation was recently arrested for possession of stolen property. His original bail set by the jailer was 25,000. He decided he would wait to talk to the judge to try to be releases on his own recognisance. When he finally after 5 days is taken to court for arraignment the judge looks at him and says you know what I'm changing your bail amount from 25,000 to 75,000. Then the Judge says you know what I'm actually now going to just revoke bail altogether. No new charges have been added since arrest nor has there been any problems while in custody. My friend has never missed any other unrelated or related court dates nor is he a considerable flight risk. My question is... Does the Judge have legal standing to issue such a decree? Or is this an 8th Amendment violation?
  • 11-24-2012, 04:02 AM
    free9man
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Yes, the judge has final say on whether bail is granted and for how much. I doubt the judge just up and did these things, there had to have been a reason.
  • 11-24-2012, 04:23 AM
    cdwjava
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    A judge is not going to simply revoke the bail of a thief absent some good cause. There is more to this tale.

    And the judge can enhance bail based upon recommendations established by the court and articulated risk. Priors, the nature of the offense, the nature of the victims, etc. can all play a part in bail enhancements.

    Is your friend on probation or parole? Are there outstanding warrants in some other jurisdiction? Were you present in the courtroom when the judge dd this?

    If you want to help your friend, you can hire him an attorney who can then revisit the bail issue. Or, he can wait until his arraignment and consult appointed counsel if he lacks the resources for his own attorney.

    You really have to change this circle of friends you hang out with!
  • 11-24-2012, 11:26 AM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    As previously stated he was on probation, and there are no outstanding warrants in other jurisdictions the judge had dealt with my friend a couple months ago for a misdemeanor possession of burglars tools which was a bs charge because all he had was a swiss army knife for which he was in jail for 2 weeks when the DA had refuses to file charges. The judge was mad that he did not serve more time at that point I guess and this is his way of teaching a lesson. Yes I was In the courtroom the judge changed bail to 75k then said you know what I'm just going to put you as NO BAIL whatsoever.

    So my question is once again is this a violation of my friends 8th amendment rights to reasonable bail or not?

    Keeping in mind that the district attourney did not even make a request to enhance the bail amount or request remand, but the judge made this decision under his own discretion

    - - - Updated - - -

    Arraignment already happened maybe you need to re-read all the things that I've said
  • 11-24-2012, 12:39 PM
    flyingron
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    You're not going to get anywhere on the civil rights aspect of this. $75,000 is not unreasonable bail for a habitual violator.
    It is entirely at the judge's discretion.
  • 11-24-2012, 01:10 PM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    I know that 75,000 is not unreasonable but at the same time the judge moving it to no bail moments after assigning a 75,000 bail is and most likely can be considered unreasonable and a violation of his civil rights.... Am I incorrect in assuming this? Even people who kill people and drug traffickers get a bail amount so that they may be allowed to gather council and be free while awaiting trial.
  • 11-24-2012, 01:30 PM
    cbg
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Yes. You are incorrect in assuming that.
  • 11-24-2012, 02:19 PM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    No Bail for a simple poss. Of stolen property of 1 credit card is much worse than if the would have set his bail to the amount of $1,000,000 which would definitely be a violation of his 8th Amendment right to Reasonable Bail so how is this not a violation of his civil rights if you care to elaborate please.
  • 11-24-2012, 02:27 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    If he is on probation, that can be sufficient to hold him without bail until there can be a hearing on the VOP. He can hire an attorney to revisit the issue if he wishes.

    Remember, Probation is a privilege that he gets to enjoy that allows him freedom as opposed to incarceration. Essentially, he is supposed to be in jail and they allowed him to roam free if he followed certain rules. When he broke those rules, he no longer gets to roam free. If the judge based his decision on the VOP, he's good. If he revoked bail without anything more than a PC 496 in front of him, then your friend's attorney should be able to get reasonable bail reinstated ... though it might make little difference if even $25,000 is too high.
  • 11-24-2012, 02:43 PM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Either way why would the judge first authorize a 75,000 bail then revoke bail momentarily afterwards? The charge is 496(a) I believe, if he were being held with no bail as a VOP it would be under the guise of a "probation hold" correct? Instead it is solely the judges choice in being biased against my friend in deciding to revoke his Bail.

    With the arrest of a person on probation for a PC 496 (a) how can the judge make the decision to Revoke an individuals bail without proof of guilt? Our entire legal system is built upon the ideas of innocent until proven guilty, and reasonable doubt.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I have spoken to the jail he currently does not have a "probation hold"
  • 11-24-2012, 02:54 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    As I said, his attorney can revisit the issue. Stamping your feet and crying foul won't accomplish anything. He needs an attorney to make the proper motion. There may be a reason, and the jail may not be aware of it. The Probation office or DA could have presented the probation hold to the court already - they do not have to tell the jail, especially if there is no bail.

    How it works here is that the DA will typically present the probation violation at arraignment and it will be addressed there.

    Is there a court website indicating the charges under which he was arraigned? Some courts place all the charges and related assessments, holds, and administrative sections that apply as well. If you can find that, post those sections as it might explain a lot.

    Until then, if you want to help your friend, pay for an attorney. Or, wait until he is contacted by his appointed counsel. If he has been arraigned on all the charges as you indicate, and he informed the court he lacks the resources to pay for his own legal counsel, one should have been appointed for him. That attorney will have access to all the court records and can advise him.

    Question: What offense or offenses is he actively on probation for? If for a drug related offense and he is on Prop 36 or a related program, the court has the option to remand without bail for 30 days pending a review of his situation.

    EDIT:

    And PC 1203.2(a) permits the judge to revoke the probation of any offender on such a conditional release if it is in the interests of justice and the court has reason to believe that the condition of probation has been violated. It is THIS section that the court likely relied upon for its determination.

    So, I suspect that the revocation is perfectly lawful and will remain at least until the matter can be brought back up with the court again. Typically, you find that probationers that violate get to go back and do more time - perhaps all of his remaining time, regardless of whether or not he is convicted of this new offense. Remember, he has already been convicted and sentenced on the previous offense for which he is on probation.
  • 11-24-2012, 02:55 PM
    cbg
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Matt, since you are convinced that the judge is legally bound by the first words that come out of his mouth and does not have the right to re-think his position, even within a matter of seconds, by all means open up your checkbook and pay a lawyer to go to court and argue the way you want him to. You're not paying us; we're not required to tell you what you want to hear.
  • 11-24-2012, 03:08 PM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    I checked the court website it says pc 496 (a) and that in one part bail is 75k but another part says NO BAIL.

    I'm not stamping my feet and crying I'm simply attempting to articulate that if his bail were set to a million dollars that would be considered a violation of his rights but setting it flat to NO BAIL which is worse is somehow not violating his rights.

    He is on probation for stealing recyclable cans from a business. Nothing drug related or involved in a special court program.

    I was in court and there was no mention of a Probation hold as I stated prior it was solely the judges decision nothing to do with the DA or Probation
  • 11-24-2012, 03:11 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Quote:

    Quoting matt4200
    View Post
    I checked the court website it says pc 496 (a) and that in one part bail is 75k but another part says NO BAIL.

    I'm not stamping my feet and crying I'm simply attempting to articulate that if his bail were set to a million dollars that would be considered a violation of his rights but setting it flat to NO BAIL which is worse is somehow not violating his rights.

    He is on probation for stealing recyclable cans from a business. Nothing drug related or involved in a special court program.

    I was in court and there was no mention of a Probation hold as I stated prior it was solely the judges decision nothing to do with the DA or Probation

    Well, you are screaming pretty loudly about it, and understand that even if the judge erred, your voice will do nothing to change things. Only HIS attorney can revisit the issue.

    The judge does not have to explain his reasons. However, I suspect that the actual court record may very well reflect the PC 1203.2(a) which gives the court broad and unilateral authority to revoke probation.

    Your friend can speak to his attorney and ask that his attorney revisit the bail issue ... but, don't expect release on his own recognizance. So, unless he has the funds to pay for bail (which means 10% to throw away to a bondsman, plus collateral) then it makes little difference because the end result will be the same - he will stay in jail.
  • 11-24-2012, 03:21 PM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Probation was not revoked nor was their any indication in the court or its records of anything pursuant to PC 1203.2

    He had a public defender which was only assigned for arraignment for his next court date he is going to have a different public defender for trial but at this time he does not know who that is.

    Also he does have bail money he only wanted to wait and try and convince the judge to release him on OR but then it happened to be the judge who was biased against him when everything went awry.
  • 11-24-2012, 03:46 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    And you have seen the actual court record? Doubtful.

    As I said, his attorney can review the matter and request a new hearing if he chooses.
  • 11-24-2012, 03:59 PM
    jk
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    so, what do you want matt? If he is so flush with cash, have him hire an attorney who can address the issue with the court.

    if there was no justification for not allowing bail, you would be correct as it would be a violation of his civil rights. The problem your friend is dealing with is he was already on probation. Then, we do not know his situation or history. The judge does have latitude here due to the situation. If you believe he is abusing his discretion, take $10k down to a lawyer and pay him to research the situation.

    Nobody here is going to be able to give you an answer you are going to be happy with.
  • 11-24-2012, 04:03 PM
    Lehk
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    so your friend was on probation for having burglary tools, and now he's in jail for possessing stolen credit card?

    i hope he enjoys his stay of not more than one year in the county jail
  • 11-24-2012, 04:09 PM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    I was in the court.

    I'm tired of repeating myself I'm simply looking for someone to agree that it is questionable if not wrongful that my friend is locked in jail with no bail in a nation so focused on individual rights and innocence until proven guilty by a jury of one's peers.

    Even rapists, murderers, and kidnappers receive a set amount of bail for their freedom.

    And no one said anyone is flush with cash I simply stated that he could afford 2500 as part of the 10% required by a bondsman to pay bail.

    You need to look at the individual as any other individual with rights as every American has.
  • 11-24-2012, 04:13 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Quote:

    Quoting matt4200
    View Post
    I'm tired of repeating myself I'm simply looking for someone to agree that it is questionable if not wrongful that my friend is locked in jail with no bail in a nation so focused on individual rights and innocence until proven guilty by a jury of one's peers.

    As has been said repeatedly, IF the judge revoked bail for NO REASON, then your friend would appear to have suffered some violation of his rights. But! You do not know that to be the case. You believe that to be the case, but the written court record may very well reflect the VOP as the reason for the revocation. Understand the judge DOES have the right to revoke probation and he doesn't have to articulate his reasons to you or anyone else. Your friend's attorney CAN move for a new hearing and essentially compel the court to make its reasoning public. Until then, your friend stays where he is.
  • 11-24-2012, 04:16 PM
    jk
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Quote:

    matt4200;668670]I was in the court.
    great., did you get to read all of the court records? Did you read all the information available to the judge who made this decision?

    Quote:

    I'm tired of repeating myself I'm simply looking for someone to agree that it is questionable if not wrongful that my friend is locked in jail with no bail in a nation so focused on individual rights and innocence until proven guilty by a jury of one's peers.
    nobody here has enough information to be able to second guess the judges decision.



    Quote:

    And no one said anyone is flush with cash I simply stated that he could afford 2500 as part of the 10% required by a bondsman to pay bail.
    you said he had the money to pay bail, not purchase a bond.

    Quote:

    Also he does have bail money
    since the last bail mentioned was $75k, I figured friend could afford a pretty decent lawyer. Now you come back and speak of not only not having bail money but merely bond money for a $25k bail which would cost $2.5k to purchase a bond to cover. He can likely get an attorney to get started for that. Hopefully he has considerably more available.
  • 11-24-2012, 04:24 PM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    No revocation of probation was ever even considered nor would it ever be considered in an arraignment court as I've stated numerous times.

    The only revocation was the revocation of bail.

    And jk if you had read the entire post you would know that I meant he could cover a bond for the original bail not the full bail amount now imposed prior to setting no bail.

    What other factors would you guys like to know? Honestly I have everything that his public defender has from the discovery. And all info pertaining to his original probation case. I heard everything that the judge had to say and Am fairly certain I have all the same exact paperwork that was set before the judge.
  • 11-24-2012, 04:25 PM
    Lehk
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Quote:

    Quoting matt4200
    View Post
    I was in the court.

    I'm tired of repeating myself I'm simply looking for someone to agree that it is questionable if not wrongful that my friend is locked in jail with no bail

    you are unlikely to find that here, i'm not exactly a fan of the lack of accountability of the police state, but few will agree with you that a recidivist thief should walk




    Quote:

    Quoting matt4200
    View Post
    You need to look at the individual as any other individual with rights as every American has.

    and your friend seems like the type who will mostly be exercising

    his right to remain silent
    his right to an attorney
    and his right to stop answering questions at any time
  • 11-24-2012, 04:34 PM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Here is the info on his bail from the court website:

    CASE INFORMATION
    Case No. Court Name Court Address Court City Bail Amt. Fine Amt. Court Date Sent. Date Sent. Day(s) Disp Code
    LA07077901 NO BAIL .00 11/27/2012 0
    LA07254901 75,000.00 .00 11/27/2012 0
  • 11-24-2012, 04:36 PM
    jk
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Quote:

    And jk if you had read the entire post you would know that I meant he could cover a bond for the original bail not the full bail amount now imposed prior to setting no bail.
    I know what you wrote. In fact, I quoted it since I figured you would want to argue with it just as you argue with everything else anybody posts.


    Quote:

    What other factors would you guys like to know?
    exactly whatever the judge had in his possession that day concerning your friend.

    then, after that; what the judge was thinking that cause him to change his mind.

    Ya got all of that handy?

    Quote:

    I heard everything that the judge had to say and Am fairly certain I have all the same exact paperwork that was set before the judge.
    I am fairly sure you don't. The judge would have access to information that would not even be released to your friends attorney without legal provocation.

    it appears that there are two different cases listed:

    LA07077901

    LA07254901
  • 11-24-2012, 04:50 PM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Quote:

    Quoting Lehk
    View Post
    you are unlikely to find that here, i'm not exactly a fan of the lack of accountability of the police state, but few will agree with you that a recidivist thief should walk





    and your friend seems like the type who will mostly be exercising

    his right to remain silent
    his right to an attorney
    and his right to stop answering questions at any time

    There are dozens of rights that every American has, what about the right to life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness, and the fact that none of these can be taken from a person without due process of law, which has yet to happen, but it seems as if they are treating him as guilty until proven innocent.

    And a person found to be receiving stolen property pursuant to PC 496 is not a "thief" he is a person with questionable judgement about who he associates with and what he allows them to give him.

    A thief is the person who actually does the stealing portion not the receiving portion of a crime. (Just saying)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post

    exactly whatever the judge had in his possession that day concerning your friend.

    then, after that; what the judge was thinking that cause him to change his mind.

    Ya got all of that handy?

    Yeah the judge has paperwork stating previous crime(s), a probation report stating that he made all appointments and was in good standing, and the DA's report and opinion on the matter of bail.

    He then was thinking I just saw this individual a couple months ago for poss. of burglars tools a VOP and crime, but the DA had insufficient evidence to prosecute and all charges were dropped, releasing this individual back onto the streets.

    Well, this time we have a solid case, or so I hope, so I think I'll set a high bail amount so that he will stay in jail for the duration.

    Oh wait I can see by looking at his mother as if she is ready to post a bond to get him out on the streets that damn thief shit what can I do? I know he's just a dumb street kid who can't afford a good attourney and even if he can I won't be seeing him again he'll be seeing a trial judge so I'm going to revoke bail and ensure he stays in jail until this case is over.

    I'd say that this is honestly what the paperwork he had in front of him that day and what was going through his mind.

    Satisfied?

    - - - Updated - - -

    It's all part of one case according to the PD.............that's just how they do it when a person is set for bail then bail is revoked, because if another judge says okay I'm taking off the No bail portion then the Bail amount would be 75k unless otherwise stipulated by the judge.
  • 11-24-2012, 04:58 PM
    jk
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Quote:

    matt4200;668683] and the pursuit of happiness,
    show me any creation of law that uses that statement.

    Quote:

    and the fact that none of these can be taken from a person without due process of law,
    can you show me where that is written?

    Quote:

    which has yet to happen, but it seems as if they are treating him as guilty until proven innocent.
    If they were doing that, they would skip that silly right to defend oneself and simply go to the penalty phase.

    Quote:

    And a person found to be receiving stolen property pursuant to PC 496 is not a "thief" he is a person with questionable judgement about who he associates with and what he allows them to give him.
    Not true. It is a person that knowingly and willingly engaged in criminal activity. You make it sound like ignorant involvement. That is not what pc 496 involves.

    Quote:

    A thief is the person who actually does the stealing portion not the receiving portion of a crime. (Just saying)
    Quote:

    (a)Every person who buys or receives any property that has been stolen or that has been obtained in any manner constituting theft or extortion, knowing the property to be so stolen or obtained, or who conceals, sells, withholds, or aids in concealing, selling, or withholding any property from the owner, knowing the property to be so stolen or obtained, shall be punished by imprisonment in a state prison, or in a county jail for not more than one year.
    just saying

    claiming you are not a thief but guilty of PC 496 is still admitting to being a criminal involving theft. I don't really see it being a worthwhile differentiation.


    Quote:

    There are dozens of rights that every American has, what about the right to life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness,
    do you even know what that is from? Once you figure that out, you might realize it does not apply here.

    - - - Updated - - -





    Quote:

    Yeah the judge has paperwork stating previous crime(s), a probation report stating that he made all appointments and was in good standing, and the DA's report and opinion on the matter of bail.
    so, post them. I suspect he did have more than that as well though.

    Quote:

    He then was thinking I just saw this individual a couple months ago for poss. of burglars tools a VOP and crime, but the DA had insufficient evidence to prosecute and all charges were dropped, releasing this individual back onto the streets.
    so now you claim to be a mind reader. Can you predict lotto numbers too? That powerball is looking mighty tempting but I would hate to waste money on a losing ticket.

    Quote:

    Well, this time we have a solid case, or so I hope, so I think I'll set a high bail amount so that he will stay in jail for the duration.
    setting bail is controlled by law. If the judge acted improperly, there is recourse. That is where friend hires a lawyer to argue the point. Arguing it here does him no good.

    Oh wait I can see by looking at his mother as if she is ready to post a bond to get him out on the streets that damn thief shit what can I do? I know he's just a dumb street kid who can't afford a good attourney and even if he can I won't be seeing him again he'll be seeing a trial judge so I'm going to revoke bail and ensure he stays in jail until this case is over.

    Quote:

    I'd say that this is honestly what the paperwork he had in front of him that day and what was going through his mind.
    you mean that is what you guess he had and thought.

    Quote:

    Satisfied?
    nope



    Quote:

    It's all part of one case according to the PD.............that's just how they do it when a person is set for bail then bail is revoked,
    make up your mind: either bail was set and revoked or no bail was ever actually set, which is what you are actually describing.
  • 11-24-2012, 05:05 PM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Bail is set at 75k and at the same time a No bail is set.

    The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides:
    [N]or shall any person . . . be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law . . . .[4]
    Section One of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides:
    [N]or shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law . . . .[5]

    What I stated prior was the Declaration of Independence and also stating how fundamental these rights are TO EVERY HUMAN BEING and that they are inalienable but this judge is violating them.


    "I am not an attorney and any advice is not to be construed as legal advice. You might even want to ignore my advice." I might take this portion of advice. I'm trying to help someone you misconstruing or making fun of what I am saying is ridiculous and rude.
  • 11-24-2012, 05:16 PM
    free9man
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    You have been given the only advice anyone here can offer...your friend can retain a lawyer to review the bail situation to determine if anything can be changed.

    You DO NOT have access to everything the judge has, nor his thought process, so no one here can make an iron-clad determination as to whether a violation has occurred or whether the judge simply exercised his discretion. Your friend's lawyer, the one needs to hire once he has you stop pounding your head against the wall here, will be in the best position to evaluate based on the full facts.
  • 11-24-2012, 05:26 PM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    I'm not looking for anything iron clad if I was then I would speak to a lawyer I am simply looking for someone anyone to say yeah I think it is possible that a violation a civil rights occurred by this judge denying a person his right to reasonable bail.
  • 11-24-2012, 05:32 PM
    jk
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Can you explain the two different case numbers? I suspect you will find some of the answers you seek there. Go spend the $9.50 and read them.

    Quote:

    The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides:
    [N]or shall any person . . . be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law . . . .[4]
    Section One of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides:
    [N]or shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law . . . .[5]
    perfect.

    Now realize the friend standing before a judge and a judge making a decision is that due process your friend has a right to.



    .
    Quote:

    I'm trying to help someone you misconstruing or making fun of what I am saying is ridiculous and rude.[
    No, actually you are attempting to argue with anything posted because it does not agree with your opinion. You have not taken the advice given so it appears to be you who is not taking this seriously.
  • 11-24-2012, 05:35 PM
    free9man
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    No one can make that assessment with the given information. We are not cheerleaders. We speak to the legal realities based on the information provided.
  • 11-24-2012, 05:39 PM
    cbg
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Quote:

    Quoting matt4200
    View Post
    I'm not looking for anything iron clad if I was then I would speak to a lawyer I am simply looking for someone anyone to say yeah I think it is possible that a violation a civil rights occurred by this judge denying a person his right to reasonable bail.


    And you're not going to go away until you find someone who says that, is that it? If I say it whether I believe it or not, will you stop then? Because if it will make you stop arguing, I'll say that black is white. I won't believe it, but I'll say it.
  • 11-24-2012, 05:52 PM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    So no one can say that with the given information there is the slightest possibility that the judge giving him NO bail while murderers and rapists get bail everyday?

    They are the same case I assure you. Now please take this all in believing even if only hypothetically they are both the same case only a clerical error or something.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Could be a violation of the 8th amendment?

    Sorry this goes after everyday^

    - - - Updated - - -

    Is it really that hard to believe? Honestly?
  • 11-24-2012, 06:00 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Quote:

    Quoting matt4200
    View Post
    Here is the info on his bail from the court website:

    CASE INFORMATION
    Case No. Court Name Court Address Court City Bail Amt. Fine Amt. Court Date Sent. Date Sent. Day(s) Disp Code
    LA07077901 NO BAIL .00 11/27/2012 0
    LA07254901 75,000.00 .00 11/27/2012 0

    The court website is NOT the court record. These web records are notoriously incomplete and, often, inaccurate. As I have repeatedly said, the judge can revoke bail for the VOP and does NOT have to tell you or anyone else as to why.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote:

    Quoting matt4200
    View Post
    So no one can say that with the given information there is the slightest possibility that the judge giving him NO bail while murderers and rapists get bail everyday?

    Geez ... I already said that if the judge based his revocation SOLELY on the PC 496(a) charge, then the action was likely a violation of his rights. Will I have to say that again?

    However, I seriously doubt that is the case.

    And, as was pointed out, it appears the $75,000 bail is for a separate offense than the No Bail. If the No Bail offense is his probation violation, there's your answer. You can assure us they are the same matter all you want, but the previous case IS a separate legal matter and will be resurrected upon his arrest for a new offense that could violate the terms of his probation. So, it would make sense.

    So, when will he be contacting an attorney or legal aid? If he is in LA County and qualifies for a public defender, he can certainly try to contact the PD's office to ask to speak with someone.
  • 11-24-2012, 06:06 PM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    I am not stating that I received my knowledge of why it is not a VOP that was brought up regarding bail from the court website I have the minutes from court and a probation report made after the arraignment hearing. and to be honest you never actually said the judge is most likely revoking bail for a VOP you said he was revoking probation altogether is what you thought.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote:

    Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    I already said that if the judge based his revocation SOLELY on the PC 496(a) charge, then the action was likely a violation of his rights.

    I apologize if I kept going on after you had already stated this ^^

    Maybe what you had said got mixed up with everything else.

    This is what I perceive to have happened.

    If this is the case as above described what would be a suitable course of action without hiring an attourney?
  • 11-24-2012, 06:08 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Quote:

    Quoting matt4200
    View Post
    I am not stating that I received my knowledge of why it is not a VOP that was brought up regarding bail from the court website I have the minutes from court and a probation report made after the arraignment hearing. and to be honest you never actually said the judge is most likely revoking bail for a VOP you said he was revoking probation altogether is what you thought.

    Semantics. Under 1203.2(a) the judge has the legal authority to revoke probation when he believes it has been violated. He needs no action by Probation requesting it. The judge sees what he believes is a VOP, he can revoke probation.

    Your friend needs to contact his attorney. Only his attorney (be it a public defender or retained) can review the whole record and move to reconsider the issue of bail. Nothing any of us might say here will change that fact one iota. Only a judge can change this, and if his probation has been revoked, only a judge can rescind this action. Good wishes and claims of Constitutional violations will do nothing absent an attorney to make the necessary arguments.

    Have we beaten this horse enough, yet?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote:

    Quoting matt4200
    View Post
    If this is the case as above described what would be a suitable course of action without hiring an attourney?

    YOU could do nothing. Your FRIEND could act pro se and make the proper motions. If he has to ask, "How?" then he needs an attorney.

    Your friend needs an attorney. Period.
  • 11-24-2012, 06:23 PM
    matt4200
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Quote:

    Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    Semantics. Under 1203.2(a) the judge has the legal authority to revoke probation when he believes it has been violated. He needs no action by Probation requesting it. The judge sees what he believes is a VOP, he can revoke probation.

    He is still on probation though probation was not revoked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Quote:

    Quoting cdwjava
    View Post

    - - - Updated - - -


    YOU could do nothing. Your FRIEND could act pro se and make the proper motions. If he has to ask, "How?" then he needs an attorney.

    Your friend needs an attorney. Period.

    What would be the proper motions though is what I am asking?

    What is the next step if we assume that the NO BAIL was set solely for the charge of 496 (a)?

    This is what I am asking
  • 11-24-2012, 06:28 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    Quote:

    Quoting matt4200
    View Post
    He is still on probation though probation was not revoked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The court may see it otherwise. The order from the court may not have yet arrived at Probation. The bureaucracy in Los Angeles is greater and more complex than that of many countries.

    Quote:

    What would be the proper motions though is what I am asking?
    This is why he needs an attorney ... you do not know, he doesn't know, and I cannot be certain what it is officially called.

    Quote:

    What is the next step if we assume that the NO BAIL was set solely for the charge of 496 (a)?
    He can speak to his attorney. In fact, his attorney is the ONLY PERSON who can help him navigate this mess. The sooner he gets an attorney to bring the matter up, the sooner he might get a bail set that he might be able to afford.

    Understand YOU cannot do anything. You have no legal standing. Aside from helping him pay for an attorney, there's really very little you can do that might help him.
  • 11-24-2012, 06:30 PM
    free9man
    Re: Unreasonable/Bail Revoked
    And you have been told repeatedly...the next step if for him to get a flippin' lawyer. We cannot work his case for him. Stop being obstinate and bull-headed.

    You have received the ONLY legally responsible response anyone here can give...HE NEEDS A LAWYER. We are not going to cheerlead or tell you what you want to hear.

    :wallbang::wallbang::wallbang:
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