Organized Stalking by Government

My question involves police conduct in the State of: Wisconsin.

At what point is the law enforcement investigation/surveillance considered stalking?

I'm a mental health professional (school psychologist) that is very pro-medical cannabis in a non-medical marijuana state and I have been stalked by the government for the last few months. They try to interact with me at every chance they get. They follow me around in vehicles with the windows all darkened, they follow me in stores and try to interact with me in the aisle's. They look over my shoulder to see what I'm buying, they drive in my neighbors driveway when they are not home to look in my backyard. The are messing with my sense of reality since they are putting actors in my life where there should be authentic people. I'm not a current or past dealer, trafficker, or prescribing cannabis to anyone.

I clearly know they are there. I started to take pictures of them to show others that I'm not losing my mind. They think I'm making this up. These people only come close to me when I'm alone. When I''m with my wife, they stay there distance, but still follow and ease drop on my conversations.

I received a letter back from the FBI and it's not them. I phone the DEA and they said they would get back to me and they never did. My wireless carrier confirmed with me that the government did seek access to my smartphone's GPS signal to locate me in Montana about a month ago. (I'm a backpacker/hiker kind of guy).

The DEA or government are stalking me and I want it to stop. They are very intrusive people.

If you're out in public, you're fair game for people to follow you, stand in line beind you, etc. When you say "the government", you realize how many hundredes of potential agencies, squads, and potential jurisdictions could be involved. If you think any agency keeping you under surveillance is going to TELL you or admit such, you'll be disappointed - because they won't - and they are allowed to lie to you, so asking about it is pointless. Unless you're being threatened, no other agency is going to treat it as stalking. Do you really think that they'd need someone to be looking over your shoulder in order to monitor your purchases? No.

Unless you're involved in some higher level serious crime, the government, at ALL levels, has much better things to do than dedicate manpower and resources to the intense type of surveillance you're hinting at. They don't dedicate THAT much effort on known Mafia dons, much less a school psychologist with a pro-medical marijuana stance.

Thank you for the reply. The knowledge gained by my purchases is used later when they ask me if I have something or not in order to interact with me. For instance, I bought an extra can of propane fuel for backpacking and then they would ask me later if I have a half or quarter of fuel to spare. That is just one example of my. They followed me from Wisconsin to Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, to the North Cascades, Olympic National Park, Mount Rainier, Crater Lake, the Redwoods, and then I headed home because they were bothering me to much.

Oh, this is real. I wish it wasn't.

Wait until the end of the fiscal budget year. They should have eliminated the need for excess billing.

You've still given no RATIONAL reason "the government", at ANY level, would have an interest in you. The level of surveillance you're suggesting isn't remotely feasible for either federal, state, or local law enforcement just to see what you're up to. Federal agents don't get to spend that much GAS, much less extensive interstate travel for "interest" only. Could be a private eye, someone else with the time and money to engage in such shinanigans, but again, the government doesn't expend this level of manpower on what you're suggesting. No amount of paranoia is going to change the fact that law enforcement agents and investigators have chains of command and fill in time sheets to account for their time, and lots of paperwork to justify their travel expenses and mileage on their vehicles. Unless you're up to something OTHER than simply being politically pro-marijuana, it ain't "the government".

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Quoting beaglemike

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My question involves police conduct in the State of: Wisconsin.

At what point is the law enforcement investigation/surveillance considered stalking?

I'm a mental health professional (school psychologist) that is very pro-medical cannabis in a non-medical marijuana state and I have been stalked by the government for the last few months. They try to interact with me at every chance they get. They follow me around in vehicles with the windows all darkened, they follow me in stores and try to interact with me in the aisle's. They look over my shoulder to see what I'm buying, they drive in my neighbors driveway when they are not home to look in my backyard. The are messing with my sense of reality since they are putting actors in my life where there should be authentic people. I'm not a current or past dealer, trafficker, or prescribing cannabis to anyone.

I clearly know they are there. I started to take pictures of them to show others that I'm not losing my mind. They think I'm making this up. These people only come close to me when I'm alone. When I''m with my wife, they stay there distance, but still follow and ease drop on my conversations.

I received a letter back from the FBI and it's not them. I phone the DEA and they said they would get back to me and they never did. My wireless carrier confirmed with me that the government did seek access to my smartphone's GPS signal to locate me in Montana about a month ago. (I'm a backpacker/hiker kind of guy).

The DEA or government are stalking me and I want it to stop. They are very intrusive people.

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are you serious? One of the ill effects of mj use is paranoia. I think it has hit you hard.


Beyond that, publically admitting you do approve of an illegal activity while being so closely engaged with the student body is simply foolish.

edit to add:

I just read your second post. You really are having paranoid delusions. You need to excuse yourself from your position at the school and seek some treatment.

Okay, say everyone is right and I swallowed the blue pill and what I have been experiencing over the last few months is a delusion and I have lost touch with reality all together.

How rare is it for a surveillance group of say 5-10 people to follow a person around the country, put people in place where they shop, try to interact with them at every moment they get, or linger around longer than one should in certain places? Let's also say that they have been using Harris Poll and Facebook to gain information and the price tag is well into the millions. For the sake of this story, the people who are doing the investigating work is the DEA. How unique would this person have to be in order to attract this kind of attention?

There is paper trail, but since I don't know who is following me I don't know where to go to find the records. The FBI said it wasn't them (in writing) and the DEA didn't return my calls.

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Quoting beaglemike

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Okay, say everyone is right and I swallowed the blue pill and what I have been experiencing over the last few months is a delusion and I have lost touch with reality all together.

How rare is it for a surveillance group of say 25 to follow a person around the country, put people in place where they shop, try to interact with them at every moment they get, or linger around longer than one should in certain places? Let's also say that they have been using Harris Poll and Facebook to gain information and the price tag is well into the millions. For the sake of this story, the people who are doing the investigating work is the DEA. How unique would this person have to be in order to attract this kind of attention?

There is paper trail, but since I don't know who is following me I don't know where to go to find the records. The FBI said it wasn't them (in writing) and the DEA didn't return my calls.

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Stop wasting time. Before you no longer have the option.

How do I obtain the records the DEA has been keeping on me?

They haven't been keeping records on you. The only reason they didn't return your calls is that they couldn't be bothered wasting taxpayers money on a paranoid and delusional goof (i.e., you) who's so full of himself he thinks the US government actually knows he exists.

How rare is it for a surveillance group of say 5-10 people to follow a person around the country, put people in place where they shop, try to interact with them at every moment they get, or linger around longer than one should in certain places?

Exceedingly.

How unique would this person have to be in order to attract this kind of attention?

For this kind of attention, the person would have to have committed a crime so heinous and at such a high level that law enforcement did not dare let the person out of their sight until they were ready to make the arrest. We're talking about serial murder, or running a national crime ring. And we're talking about law enforcement having a strong case, not just a suspicion. And we're talking about it going on for a matter of days, not weeks or months. Just till the paperwork went through.

The possibility that any law enforcement or government agency would put forth this level of surveillance on someone for whom they do not have strong evidence of a serious crime is so slim as to be non-existent. If I thought otherwise, I'd be having a serious talk with my Congressman (and I am on a first name basis with my Congressman) about how my tax dollars are being used.

Thank you for the replies.

I'm asking these questions and making these statements not to draw attention to myself, but to figure out what is going on. The level of surveillance that is taking place does not match who I am at all. I'm just a family guy with some knowledge.

The language of the legal system is not common to me, so it would be wonderful if someone could direct me to where I might obtain those records from the DEA.

Thanks again for your input and thoughts.

Mike

Let me ask you a question.

What EVIDENCE do you you have that the DEA has any records on you at all?

I'm asking for a reason.

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Quoting beaglemike

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The language of the legal system is not common to me, so it would be wonderful if someone could direct me to where I might obtain those records from the DEA.

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You're not getting it. There aren't any DEA records on you.

John Gotti didn't receive the attention you claim to be getting. Why would they spend more time and money following and, indeed, harassing you? No supervisor wanting to keep his job would authorize such a huge expenditure of resources to follow one man without any serious criminal involvement. The type of open (not covert) surveillance you describe would not only be horrendously expensive, but their actions would be counterproductive. The best surveillance is that where the target does not know they are being tailed.

There is not a coordinated effort by any government agency to follow you.

Okay, so there are no records being kept on me.

For the sake of argument, where can a common man like me go to officially verify if I'm under investigation currently or in the past like I did with the FBI?

Not sure what you expect folks to say other than to contact a local criminal attorney who may be able to ascertain what ongoing investigations there may be ... or pester your state and U.S. legislative representatives about it. I wouldn't presume it's the DEA just because no one got back to you, however. Sounds like grandiosity there; I'd set your sights lower in terms of local or state police if anyone.

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Quoting beaglemike

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Okay, so there are no records being kept on me.

For the sake of argument, where can a common man like me go to officially verify if I'm under investigation currently or in the past like I did with the FBI?

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You're not going to get investigative intelligence. Period.

No law enforcement agency has to provide information on ongoing investigations. If they are investigating you, they can say they are not.

All right, to wrap things up. This is what I'm walking away with. Law enforcement can participate in organized stalking and not be held accountable for any collateral damage that occurs and they can mess with a person as long as they like behind the security of secrecy. Nice.

Take care and thanks for the law lesson.

Mike

The same thing has been happening with me. But in my case it's the cookie nazis.

I hate those b**tards!!!

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Quoting beaglemike

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All right, to wrap things up. This is what I'm walking away with. Law enforcement can participate in organized stalking and not be held accountable for any collateral damage that occurs and they can mess with a person as long as they like behind the security of secrecy. Nice.

Take care and thanks for the law lesson.

Mike

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No, what we're saying is that your perceptions may be in error and you might want to speak with someone. Law enforcement is NOT going to engage in such a huge expenditure of resources because someone is a political supporter of medical marijuana. Sorry, but it just is not going to happen. Major crime figures do not get this much attention, why would you?

As to the second half of your inquiry, yes, law enforcement do not have to reveal they are investigating someone. It would be absurd to have it otherwise. If the feds or local law enforcement had to admit to conducting an investigation, every mobster in the nation would make a daily phone call to every law enforcement agency in the phone book asking if they were under investigation ... you can imagine how such an open admission policy would impede their ability to conduct an investigation, let alone surveillance.

Please consider speaking to someone about your perceptions.

Something to think about. A communication between me and my wireless carrier. They said I could subpoena the courts to find out who it was that accessed my smartphone.

"In regards to you location, I am unable to confirm whom sought you in the wilderness but, I can confirm it was not on behalf of VZW. I have reviewed the details of your account and I see that no one has accessed your account since we’ve last assisted you with a mobile number change."

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The language of the legal system is not common to me, so it would be wonderful if someone could direct me to where I might obtain those records from the DEA.

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from the DEA via a freedom of information request. The problem: if there is an active investigation, they will not release any "open" investigation information.


Mike, the guys in black coats do not tend to make contact with the person they are watching. It kind of defeats the purpose of watching you.

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I have reviewed the details of your account and I see that no one has accessed your account since we’ve last assisted you with a mobile number change.

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Mike, they said no one accessed it.

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Quoting jk

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from the DEA via a freedom of information request. The problem: if there is an active investigation, they will not release any "open" investigation information.


Mike, the guys in black coats do not tend to make contact with the person they are watching. It kind of defeats the purpose of watching you.

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Unless they really want to freak you out!

Ok, ok, I'm just saying...

Ah, the eternal question. Is the DEA (or fill in the blank with any other agency you wish) not responding to Mike's requests for the records on him because there is an active investigation - OR BECAUSE THERE IS NO INVESTIGATION AT ALL?

Mike, will you even consider the possibility that IF someone is stalking you, it is not a government agency but a private party? That really makes MUCH more sense given what you have told us.

I've learned a couple of things since I've last posted something here. First thing is that I'm not alone. Second is that the ACLU is already on top of things, which surprises me that so many of you doubt that this couldn't happen to you either.

http://www.aclu.org/national-securit...llance-privacy

http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-se...-being-watched

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Only the government could have the resources that I've been exposed to along my 10,000 mile journey across America and now at home. Like I've mentioned before, the price tag for what ever is happening to me is easily a million dollars at this point and I'm just a common man.

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I don't want to make this a focus of this topic, but those of you who are not familiar with cannabis have a lot to learn. 18 states now regulate it for medical use and two pretty much ended the prohibition against it.

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beaglemike;671097]I've learned a couple of things since I've last posted something here. First thing is that I'm not alone. Second is that the ACLU is already on top of things, which surprises me that so many of you doubt that this couldn't happen to you either.

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Only the government could have the resources that I've been exposed to along my 10,000 mile journey across America and now at home. Like I've mentioned before, the price tag for what ever is happening to me is easily a million dollars at this point and I'm just a common man.

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and that is only one reason your claims are simply beyond reasonable i.e. unbelieveable.

what you are telling here simply is not how a person is surveilled. What you linked does not support your claims.


Either you are suspected to be the replacement for Bin Laden, a direct contact for one of the heads of any of the Mexican drug cartels, or you need to speak with a doctor.

Cannabis is just the plant. The real secret is the endocannabinoid system, which is indigenous to humans and other mammals.

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Quoting beaglemike

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Cannabis is just the plant. The real secret is the endocannabinoid system, which is indigenous to humans and other mammals.

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What's your point? I can't speak for everyone but I don't give a rat's butt about the finer points of pot. It has no bearing on your situation, which honestly seems like a flight of fancy. No one is going to care about Joe Citizen enough to expend the kind of money you allege they must have to keep tabs on you. You simply aren't that important.

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Quoting free9man

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What's your point? I can't speak for everyone but I don't give a rat's butt about the finer points of pot. It has no bearing on your situation, which honestly seems like a flight of fancy. No one is going to care about Joe Citizen enough to expend the kind of money you allege they must have to keep tabs on you. You simply aren't that important.

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I think it may have *everything* to do with his "situation". Paranoia is just one of the reasons I never liked the stuff. Actually the major reason.

Okay, back on topic. It would appear that many of us don’t have the same definition of “stalking”, so I’m providing a wiki link for everyone’s reading pleasure. I know it’s not the legal stuff you are used to reading, but then I’m not an attorney. I would characterize the intruders in my life as “Predatory stalkers spy on the victim in order to prepare and plan an attack..”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking

What kind of evidence do I need to gather in order for me to walk into an attorney’s office to pull back the curtain and find out who has been messing with my life?

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I never said that I medicate.

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I’m a gay and lesbian activist too, but I’m 100% heterosexual. I also fight like hell for women's right's, but I'm not a woman either, 100% man.

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I never said that I medicate.

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Maybe you should consider it, before your paranoid delusions get the better of you and cost you your job, family, or both.