Divorce and Custody Case from a Mentally Ill Wife

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: AL

My wife and I have an 8 week old baby. We had marriage problems the whole time she was pregnant (mostly due to a severe mental illness she has). Before she was pregnant, this was only a problem about once a month. But after she got pregnant, the episodes became more and more frequent. So when the baby was 4 weeks old, I received divorce papers from her. It wasn't a surprise, since as I mentioned, she has mental problems. We both left the marital home (our lease was up that month anyways) and found places of our own to stay. Well, I got my own place. She moved in with a friend.

When we moved out, I tried to take the baby with me, but she beat me to it. Now she tells me I "can come see the baby whenever I want." As if she's the one that gets to make that decision. Yes, I can see the baby whenever I want. My problem is that she won't let me take the baby with me whenever I go over there. She has INTENTIONALLY not introduced formula to the baby so that she can use breastfeeding as an excuse! This has been a problem the whole 4 weeks we've been apart.

In the process of a divorce, we both filled out "interrogatories" or something like that. I just got the answers to hers today. She put on there that she is seeking "primary custody" and wants to me to have "standard visitation." However, I can easily prove she has a mental disorder, since she admits to taking anti-depressant medication and sees a therapist. I want the baby to live with me. I have a nicer home, make more money, and I don't have a mental disorder. There is no reason to punish a good father just because I couldn't survive a marriage with a mentally ill person. It's not fair that this is her fault and yet she has the baby. My only concern is that she will get custody just because she's the mother since a lot of judges side with mothers, from what I've heard.

My questions are:
How do I put together a solid case that she doesn't create a good home for the child due to her mental issues?

I've heard she is considering applying for Section 8 housing. Will this make my case better since I have a stable home and not only is she moving after only one month, but she can't even fully support herself without aid?

Her parents and most of her family live 4 hours away from here. I'm afraid she's gonna take the baby there. Can I stop this?

Any other advice I can get from the other information I've given will be appreciated.

Nicer home & more money mean nothing at all.

Mom has been the primary caregiver evidently, which means a great deal. She has a mental disorder? She's taking anti-depressant meds and she's seeing a therapist, showing the court that she realizes there's a problem and is getting help. Plus, you've got to consider that she's only 8 weeks post-partum - do you have any idea what that does to a woman, mentally and physically?

Sorry Dad, but the reality is that you're going to stand equal before the court.

I was afraid she may try to use women's health issues as an excuse. She's done this before. I used to beg her to get help for her mental problems and she would say it's that time of the month. I don't buy into that stuff. You don't get an excuse to act crazy. I had to nag her for months before she finally saw a doctor about it.

Yes, she's with the baby most of the time, but does it make a difference that I have been over to her house to see the child around 5 days a week on average? She has been pretty unreasonable with me, though. She usually asks me to leave after like only 3 hours. I swear, I think she wants me to just be a "weekend dad" or something. That is not my intention at all.

Also, what you just described doesn't SOUND like "equal." It sounds like you're saying SHE has the advantage. You know what? If for some odd reason, she does win, I'll just keep fighting. I have more money, so maybe if I just keep taking her to court, she'll not be able to afford it anymore, and have to give the baby to me.

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Quoting anxiousdad

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I was afraid she may try to use women's health issues as an excuse. She's done this before. I used to beg her to get help for her mental problems and she would say it's that time of the month. I don't buy into that stuff. You don't get an excuse to act crazy. I had to nag her for months before she finally saw a doctor about it.

Yes, she's with the baby most of the time, but does it make a difference that I have been over to her house to see the child around 5 days a week on average? She has been pretty unreasonable with me, though. She usually asks me to leave after like only 3 hours. I swear, I think she wants me to just be a "weekend dad" or something. That is not my intention at all.

Also, what you just described doesn't SOUND like "equal." It sounds like you're saying SHE has the advantage. You know what? If for some odd reason, she does win, I'll just keep fighting. I have more money, so maybe if I just keep taking her to court, she'll not be able to afford it anymore, and have to give the baby to me.

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This is your first child, isn't it? You've never gone through a custody dispute before, have you?

I strongly suggest you start reading these forums. Because with that attitude, you're in for a nasty surprise in court.

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(As an afterthought, how much money do you think you're going to have after you're paying child support?)

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Quoting Dogmatique

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This is your first child, isn't it? You've never gone through a custody dispute before, have you?

I strongly suggest you start reading these forums. Because with that attitude, you're in for a nasty surprise in court.

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Okay, now you're making it sound like you know something I don't....
What is it? What am I in for?

Custody is initially going to be based upon the child's best interest. Now, given that Mom has had primary physical custody of the baby for a month (which is half of the baby's life), and (perhaps unfortunately for you) she does have something of an advantage. Her mental issues won't be held against her for the reasons I mentioned in the previous post.

Status quo is important, but it's not everything. It's really not. However if you have two fit parents, and one has been the primary caregiver? It's often the deciding factor. The courts just aren't fond of disrupting the child's routine.

Once custody has been decided, the NCP (non-custodial parent) is no longer "equal" in terms of custody; in order for the NCP to change the current order s/he needs to show that a significant change in the child's circumstance has occurred. This can be something like the CP wanting to relocate out of State; the CP marrying a convicted sex offender; the child failing school, things like that.

Once an NCP becomes an NCP, the battle to change things is often insurmountable. It's not impossible by any means, but it's difficult.

Things that don't matter:

Who has the nicer/bigger house;
Who has more money;
Who has the nicer car/friends/family

Things that DO matter:

Who has spent the most time with the child on a daily basis (overnights are extremely important);
The ability of the parent to provide the basics (food, clothing, basic necessities) - with or without aid;

I'm honestly not trying to give you a hard time Dad - truly. But you need to be realistic.

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Quoting anxiousdad

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...Also, what you just described doesn't SOUND like "equal." It sounds like you're saying SHE has the advantage. You know what? If for some odd reason, she does win, I'll just keep fighting.

I have more money, so maybe if I just keep taking her to court, she'll not be able to afford it anymore, and have to give the baby to me.

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You need to understand the practical realities of your case, whether now or after a round or two in one of your Alabama courts.

And that is the first order of business will be the court establishing temporary divorce-custody orders until the divorce is final.

Which will almost surely grant you both joint legal custody, your wife primary physical custody, you standard possession and visitation, and the amount of child support you will pay. If you currently earn a lot more, you may be ordered to pay temporary spousal support until divorce is final.

Dad, please read the pm I sent you. Being realistic and trying to change the likely reality are not the same, and one is certainly harder than the other. Doesn't mean impossible.

I know what "standard visitation" is and it sounds like it was meant for criminals. And that's what I feel like cause when I'm over there she never lets me out of her sight.

But thanks I guess for telling me what's likely.

Also, I would never ask for child support from her! I hope she doesn't ask me for it. This is why it'd be easier if I had the baby. Because if I have to send her a check every month, then clearly she's not supporting the baby on her own, whereas I can.

Do you understand that Mom could be remarried to Bill Gates and you'd STILL be responsible for child support?

Is this really just about the money?

Dad, you need to step back and take a breath. Then re-read everything you have been told. Then get a good lawyer.

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Quoting anxiousdad

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I know what "standard visitation" is and it sounds like it was meant for criminals. And that's what I feel like cause when I'm over there she never lets me out of her sight.

But thanks I guess for telling me what's likely.

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Standard visitation will allow you to have full possession of your child at designated periods to generally take where you wish. That should include several weeks during summers.

What you should be focusing on NOW is getting yourself the best "standard" visitation order you can. Since in many states "standard" comes in varying shades of grey, figuring out what is the most you can reasonably hope for, and then convincing the court to give you that, is something you should be prepared for by your first hearing on temporary orders.

Do NOT make the mistake of agreeing to visitation orders that are vague or ambiguous, or leaves anything up to the custodial parent to decide. As a reference, one of the best written standard possession and visitation orders is the Texas SPO, which is easy to find online. It also gives the non-custodial parent 6 weeks during the summer, which is a good goal to shoot for.

6 weeks in the summer? For a BABY?

Perhaps OP might look at the Indiana parenting guidelines. For an infant.

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(You DID see that this child is only EIGHT WEEKS OLD, right tex?)

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Do you understand that Mom could be remarried to Bill Gates and you'd STILL be responsible for child support?

Is this really just about the money?

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No! This isn't about the money. This is about what's morally right. I think if she wants to take care of the baby herself, she should be able to provide for it herself. Just like I will provide for the baby MYSELF if I'm taking care of the baby. That is fair and even.

Those Indiana guidlines look like they were made for a criminal parent.

I don't need to re-read anything. I get what you guys are saying. It may be the norm, but that doesn't make it RIGHT.

It is about what is right for the child, not you. It is about what is fair for the child, not you. The right and fair thing for the child is BOTH parents being involved in the upbringing of said child in all areas, including financial support because raising a child is expensive. When parents can't work things out themselves civilly, the courts are forced to intervene.

The criminal comments and money comments make it look like you are more concerned about you than the child.

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Quoting anxiousdad

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I was afraid she may try to use women's health issues as an excuse. She's done this before. I used to beg her to get help for her mental problems and she would say it's that time of the month. I don't buy into that stuff. You don't get an excuse to act crazy. I had to nag her for months before she finally saw a doctor about it.

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I don't know this woman, but this is going on just what you said:

You said these "episodes" happened once a month. Then when she got pregnant, they became more frequent. You nagged her until she got herself on anti-depressants.

You seriously don't think that sounds like "women's health issues?" She had the episodes once a month. You mean like PMS? And when she got pregnant, they happened more frequently? You mean like horomones?

So what mental disorder does you wife have?

Shortie, I'm guessing you're a woman.

I can't stand it when women think they can have an excuse for acting crazy. I don't think PMS is a real thing. I know periods are. But the emotional stuff? No. And with pregnant women, they think because they are "sacrificing their body" that they get an excuse for everyone to indulge them. It isn't right for women to just act crazy and expect everyone to excuse their behavior for some BS reason.

I believe my wife is a sociopath. She is exhibiting many of those behaviors. Right now, she's only diagnosed with depression, but I am hoping with continued visits to her therapist, the therapist will finally see what a sociopath she is.

Wow.

I think I'm gonna hold my tongue and not say what I really want to say right now.

Dad,

I've sent you another pm. I would probably not talk about ons not being real and her being a sociopath to a judge, though, unless she actually does get that diagnosis. You'll make yourself sound irrational.

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Quoting anxiousdad

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I believe my wife is a sociopath. She is exhibiting many of those behaviors. Right now, she's only diagnosed with depression, but I am hoping with continued visits to her therapist, the therapist will finally see what a sociopath she is.

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Based on what medical degree you hold? What behaviors? You realize there are plenty of people who look/act like sociopaths who aren't, and vice versa? You're sounding more like the person with issues than her. Hire an attorney to do your talking for you or you could be in for a world of hurt.

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Quoting anxiousdad

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Shortie, I'm guessing you're a woman.

I can't stand it when women think they can have an excuse for acting crazy. I don't think PMS is a real thing. I know periods are. But the emotional stuff? No. And with pregnant women, they think because they are "sacrificing their body" that they get an excuse for everyone to indulge them. It isn't right for women to just act crazy and expect everyone to excuse their behavior for some BS reason.

I believe my wife is a sociopath. She is exhibiting many of those behaviors. Right now, she's only diagnosed with depression, but I am hoping with continued visits to her therapist, the therapist will finally see what a sociopath she is.

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If you show up in court without an attorney, and the judge has an opportunity to see your thought processes that you have shown here, you may wind up with far less than you bargained on

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Quoting FatherWhoWon

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Dad,

I've sent you another pm. I would probably not talk about ons not being real and her being a sociopath to a judge, though, unless she actually does get that diagnosis. You'll make yourself sound irrational.

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"Make yourself"?

He's already done that.

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Quoting anxiousdad

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Shortie, I'm guessing you're a woman.

I can't stand it when women think they can have an excuse for acting crazy. I don't think PMS is a real thing. I know periods are. But the emotional stuff? No. And with pregnant women, they think because they are "sacrificing their body" that they get an excuse for everyone to indulge them. It isn't right for women to just act crazy and expect everyone to excuse their behavior for some BS reason.

I believe my wife is a sociopath. She is exhibiting many of those behaviors. Right now, she's only diagnosed with depression, but I am hoping with continued visits to her therapist, the therapist will finally see what a sociopath she is.

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I can see Mom walking away here with you having supervised visitation if you don't seriously check yourself.

If she is only letting me see the child 3 hours a day (on average) 5 days per week, will that make her look bad that she is letting me see the child so little?

She's always like "time to go" after a few hours and I cannot stand it when she asks me to leave. I think it's my child and if she won't allow me to take the baby, I should get to stay there as long as I want.

She's not even letting my family see the child. She has brought the child out of the house to see them, but won't let them inside her friend's house.

Does all this make her look like she's not "facilitating a relationship with the father and father's family?"

The fact she is facilitating a relationship with the child's father will be a plus to the court. She is facilitating a relationship by allowing you to see the child. 3 hours a day/5 days a week is definitely going to work for her. You are in her place, she has the right to tell you to leave at any time. You need to chill and enjoy whatever time with your child she allows. Once custody/visitation are worked out, hopefully you will get more time with her.

You say she allows your family to see the child by bringing it out of the house but you also say she doesn't let your family see the child. Which is it?

I doubt she will be required to facilitate any kind of relationship with your family, that's on you once you establish visitation.

No, that was meant to say "My opinon is that since it's my child I should be allowed to stay...etc."

So are you saying my family has no rights to see my child?!

No she isn't letting them see the baby. She brings it outside when they come like, "Here's the baby," lets them see the baby for like a minute, then goes back inside. In my opinion, that isn't really "letting them see it."

Your family can see the child on your time, once you get it. I cannot find anything in Alabama law, although I haven't read it all, that says she would be required to allow them to see the child. Especially given the child's young age and lack of any established relationship. Your parents may, and I emphasize may, be able to take her to court for visitation once the divorce is finalized. There is no guarantee that they will prevail. The court may simply tell them to see the child on your time. The rest of your family has no standing to demand access to the child.

YOU are the one that looks like a sociopath, not your wife. You need to educate yourself on pregnancy and what all those hormones do to a woman. It's not an excuse to act like a maniac, but a woman's body goes through hell while pregnant and for quite a while AFTER pregnancy.

Your wife will be the one that looks "good" in court, because she IS facilitating a relationship between you and the baby. You should be thankful that she is letting you see the baby for 3 hours, 5 days a week. Some women don't let their exes see their children at all until a judge forces them to.

Your wife has no obligation to allow your family to see the baby. They are not that important when it comes to custody/visitation issues. Like others have said YOU are the one that will be responsible for fostering a relationship between the child and your family when you have visitation. She won't look bad for not allowing them in her friend's house. How do you know that it's not her friend saying all these people can't come in the house?

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Quoting eepk

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YOU are the one that looks like a sociopath, not your wife.

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Most likely neither one of them is a sociopath. Forum members flinging those terms at posters looks just about as good as posters flinging them at their exes. Practice what you preach.

Dad does have some valid gripes, but likely a court won't see things his way. It's up to him to try to change that rather than complain about it.

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Quoting anxiousdad

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No, that was meant to say "My opinon is that since it's my child I should be allowed to stay...etc."

So are you saying my family has no rights to see my child?!

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That is exactly correct, legally. Your family have absolutely no rights to the child.

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No she isn't letting them see the baby. She brings it outside when they come like, "Here's the baby," lets them see the baby for like a minute, then goes back inside. In my opinion, that isn't really "letting them see it."

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She is under no obligation to allow your family access to the child.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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I can see Mom walking away here with you having supervised visitation if you don't seriously check yourself.

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Ignoring the fact that I disagree with your assumption, I would like to know what you mean.

Why on earth would I (the rational one) get supervised visitation. Under what circumstances and why?

If Mom can show the court that you're not exactly stable, that in and of itself is a reason for supervised visitation (at least temporarily).

Please Dad - don't mess this up for yourself. Calling Mom a sociopath isn't exactly showing yourself to be a rational, stable influence on your child.

Wait a second, this whole time you guys have been telling me that none of the stuff I have on her about her being mentally unstable will matter. Now you tell me that she can just say I'm mentally unstable and I would get supervised?

That makes no sense. If you can really make the other parent get supervised by saying they are mentally unstable, how can I apply that to HER?

We really need a headbanging emoticon here.

Mom's situation: she is getting treatment and seeing a therapist.

You on the other hand? You're tossing around labels and accusations, irrational ideas (seriously - walk into court and try to claim that PMS isn't real) and I can't help but feel that you're just not getting it.

Mom is, currently, the primary caregiver. Once again while status quo isn't everything in an initial custody determination, it carries huge weight. She's obviously fit to be the primary caregiver. She has a distinct advantage over you and the more you try to throw around baseless accusations, the more likely it is that a Judge will wonder exactly what is wrong with you.

Well, they won't because I am also in therapy. And I take anxiety medication (for panic attacks). But that's not a mental disorder, like she has. Mine is just a minor annoyance.

Have we ever established exactly WHAT Mom has? Don't start with the "sociopath" crap again please.

There's another part to this, incidentally. You say that Mom has always had problems. Yet, you decided that she's absolutely fine parenting material. Do you think the court is going to think she suddenly became unstable overnight?

I did say. I said they diagnosed her with depression. She lies to her doctor about her symptoms though, so it's very frustrating they aren't seeing her true sociopath nature.

I think she will be an okay parent for part-time. But I didn't say I thinks he is "just fine parenting material" before. She just isn't stable enough to be a full-time parent.

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Quoting anxiousdad

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I did say. I said they diagnosed her with depression. She lies to her doctor about her symptoms though, so it's very frustrating they aren't seeing her true sociopath nature.

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I know I'm not the only one empathizing with your wife right now.

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I think she will be an okay parent for part-time. But I didn't say I thinks he is "just fine parenting material" before. She just isn't stable enough to be a full-time parent.

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Yes, yes you did say that - you said that the very second you impregnated her.

So, she's depressed, and you suffer from an anxiety disorder. You're both medicated. So that levels the playing field pretty definitively.

We're back to status quo. :cool:

Well, I don't intent to accept that.

Unless you can prove that mom is batcrap crazy and poses a risk to the baby, and by batcrap crazy I mean just that - not in your opinion, but a professonal mental health professional's opinion - you're not going to come off so well in court. Judges are used to hearing allegations like this and they get cranky about unsubstantiated claims.

Seriously, do yourself a huge favor and hire a good attorney. You need it because you aren't coming across so well here. Don't try to represent yourself. As far as your plan to wear her down b/c you have the means to hire an attorney and she doesn't.....my father was a family law lawyer. One of the best in his field and he always said, families will pull together to find a way to hire a lawyer. If the court gets even the slightest sense that you're dragging her back repeatedly for no good cause, she *will* find a way to retain an attorney and you could very well end up footing the bill for her lawyer.

You know what family law judges hear every day? He's an SOB and she's an unreasonable bitch. They're used to it. It gets old for them and they hate having their calendar clogged up with a load of bs. You will get slammed. Seriously.

3 hours a day 5 days a week? You know how many dads would kill for that kind of access? She's going out of her way to foster a relationship b/n you and your child.

Go to court. Leave the bs accusations out of it. She has status quo on her side. Don't worry about making more $$ and having a nicer home. The court will issue a child support order that ensures the child receives the support needed to level all of that out.

You guys made a child together and you are going to be in each other's lives for a very long time. Try to love your child more than you hate your ex. Pick your battles and choose wisely. Make sure your folks have access to the baby during your parenting time.

Research custody protocols in your state. Learn about the process. Educate yourself about the process. Lose the vitriol. That's the best thing you can do right now.

And for the love of all that is holy, find a good, honest, lawyer and not one who strokes you along and tells you what you want to hear. In fact, you should probably retain a lawyer who tells you what you don't want to hear.

You need to go into this with a realistic idea of what is going to happen. And if you're going to question her mental health, be prepared for the court to order both of you to meet with a court appointed shrink who will provide an honest assessment of both your mental states.

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Quoting anxiousdad

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Well, I don't intent to accept that.

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It's not going to be your decision.

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One other point I forgot to address.

Dad's parents have no chance at obtaining court-ordered grandparent visitation.

Period. Even if. (Unless of course BOTH parents agree to some sort of visitation plan)