85 in a 65 on I-5 in San Diego, CA

Hello!

I just got my very first speeding ticket a couple days ago and wanted to see what my options are. The situation is as follows: I bought a car on Saturday that has a great deal more power than the car I was driving previously. Saturday night the speedometer began malfunctioning. I brought the car to the dealer ASAP, Monday morning, to have it looked at. They confirmed that the speed sensor was broken and ordered the part, gave me a 3-5 day estimate for arrival and a document stating that the sensor was broken.

Tuesday morning on my way to work my speedo reads 0 on the highway, I am travelling in the far right lane and approach a truck, I signal left and change lanes to pass the truck. To pass I hit the gas slightly overzealously and quite possibly get up to 85, I don't know because my speedo doesn't work. CHP bike cop pulls me over, writes me the ticket, doesn't mention how he got the 85 mph number, and I leave.

I think that there's some mitigating factors in this case that merit the judges attention. My question is: what is the best way to communicate this information?

Should I do a TBD? Or is that only when pleading Not Guilty, not for explanations? Should I be pleading Not Guilty? Should I bring evidence of my speedometer's malfunction and subsequent repair to my arraignment? I'm just unsure about what legal procedure is advisable under the circumstances. Does anyone have any advice?

Thanks in advance!

P.S. I checked the California Vehicle Code and driving with a malfunctioning speedometer is not illegal.

You can do either TBD or appear in person, that way the judge can ask you questions whereas in the TBD it is basically one shot, but you can appeal. You seem to have evidence to back up your contention that you had no way of accurately extimating your speed from day one. The citation should indicate if radar was used. It is worth a try and possible that the judge will drop the milage down to 74 so you would be <10 over.

Thanks! So I guess maybe it would be better to show up in person? Gives me the chance to make a good impression and look sorry. Is that at the arraignment? Or do I have to actually contest the ticket to be able to present my evidence?

The ticket doesn't say anything about radar, there's a box for "Radar Unit/Patrol Vehicle No." that the officer left empty. Does that mean he didn't use radar? Maybe I should request his notes from CHP before my court date (incidentally the day before Thanksgiving according to the ticket).

You may want to wait until Carl our resident Cop makes his appearance he also worked in the San Diego area so he may have additional insight. I believe it is better to appear in person. Contact the court in advance of the date shown on the ticket to see how they handle trials, you may have to come in twice and also they can tell you how to obtain your discovery. Also request a traffic survey. Please post the actual VC violation code and the location, that will help Carl.

Sure. The code is 22349(a):

"Except as provided in Section 22356, no person may drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than 65 miles per hour."

It was on the 5 North/56 East local bypass at Carmel Mountain. There's very little traffic there in the mornings.

Thank you again. As a generally law-abiding citizen I just have no experience dealing with this sort of thing. I suppose it wasn't so clever to buy a red sports car, but it's in my blood :)

I thought it was illegal to drive in California with a non-functioning speedo but you could certainly be right about that, since you checked the CVC.

You would most likely be better off pleading not guilty in person and pleading your case before the judge. TBD is a wonderful option, in some instances, but I doubt it would buy you anything other than time (which is usually quite good).

The problem with pleading "guilty with an explanation" is that, regardless of your explanation, you will be found guilty. In traffic court, if you plea guilt, you are presumed to be guilty.

If you do go through the TBD deal, the cop may not file the required paperwork on time (or not at all). Go to the court and get a copy of his declaration so you'll know his thoughts on the matter. Also, be SURE to check the date which his declaration is filed..if it's late, request a "trial de novo" and ask for dismissal (based upon a late filing) before he testifies. Also, he may be sick of the whole thing and the fact that he had to file a written declaration..and not show up. Since you're not a menace to society, he may decide to cut you some slack. Good luck!

I think Carl will agree with all of this advice.

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Quoting chpmagnet

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Sure. The code is 22349(a):

"Except as provided in Section 22356, no person may drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than 65 miles per hour."

It was on the 5 North/56 East local bypass at Carmel Mountain. There's very little traffic there in the mornings.

Thank you again. As a generally law-abiding citizen I just have no experience dealing with this sort of thing. I suppose it wasn't so clever to buy a red sports car, but it's in my blood :)

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I was going to ask if your car was red;)

Ah yes, hence the user name I've chosen :)

The speedometer can be considered part of the odometer. CVC 28050 makes it unlawful to use an odometer which does not register the true mileage (and speed). However, this may not be a universally accepted provision in every court. Not being a mechanic myself, I can't say if the speedometer could be effectively argued to be part of the same mechanism or not.

In any event, having a broken speedometer is not a defense to the citation though it might be a reasonable mitigating factor if it can be proven. If you can show that the speedometer has since been fixed, it might be beneficial to you.

- Carl

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Quoting cdwjava

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The speedometer can be considered part of the odometer. CVC 28050 makes it unlawful to use an odometer which does not register the true mileage (and speed). However, this may not be a universally accepted provision in every court. Not being a mechanic myself, I can't say if the speedometer could be effectively argued to be part of the same mechanism or not.

In any event, having a broken speedometer is not a defense to the citation though it might be a reasonable mitigating factor if it can be proven. If you can show that the speedometer has since been fixed, it might be beneficial to you.

- Carl

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Apparently the vehicle was bought and the speedometer was not working and reported the same day to the dealer and the replacement part ordered, which brings into question other requirements for sales of vehicles. Apparently OP has documents. I had a similar problem and the cable was damaged while the dealer installed a instant disconnect on the vehicle, but the speedometer failed one day months later as I drove on the freeway when my cruise control sudenly failed on hwy 80 on my way to Sacto. Leaving me to unexpectdly gague my speed along with the other traffic and sure enough I got nailed for going a few(<5) miles over the limit.

I don't know... the statute seems to be written to prevent people from rolling back odometers when selling the car. I'd be shocked if anyone would argue that it meant you couldn't drive a car with a broken speedometer while in the process of getting it fixed:

True Mileage Driven

28050. It is unlawful for any person to advertise for sale, to sell, to use, or to install on any part of a motor vehicle or on an odometer in a motor vehicle any device which causes the odometer to register any mileage other than the true mileage driven. For the purposes of this section the true mileage driven is that mileage driven by the car as registered by the odometer within the manufacturer's designed tolerance.

Note the two words trailing some time after "It is unlawful":

28050. It is unlawful for any person ... to use ... any device which causes the odometer to register any mileage other than the true mileage driven.

Again, not knowing the manufacture of these things I do not know how they work, but logic would seem to dictate that the speedometer and the odometer have some parts and functions in common. If the speed is registering improperly it is quite possible that the mileage i also not registering properly.

Even so, it is not a defense under CA law to have malfunctioning equipment. A judge may take that into consideration and show mercy, but he or she does not have to do so. Your situation sounds reasonable, however. Had you been the owner of the car for years it might be less so.

- Carl

Oh no, I don't expect it to be a defense at all. I just want to be sure that the judge won't bust out with some additional fine when I bring it up, however, all things considered I doubt that will happen. The stupid thing should be fixed this week and I did everything in my power to get it fixed as soon as I noticed it was broken.


Speeding tickets are a funny thing though. I have to say that I really resent the government right now, something I never felt before. This ordeal is pretty much making a radical libertarian out of a mild-mannered good girl. I have less respect for the law now than prior. I wonder if the government realizes that this is a possible, and maybe probable, result of this particular revenue-making scheme. The CHP seems less like protection from anything, and more like tax collectors.

When you enforce laws that make criminals out of ordinary people, ordinary people will become criminals.

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Quoting chpmagnet

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Speeding tickets are a funny thing though. I have to say that I really resent the government right now, something I never felt before.

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Why? Because you got caught speeding? I guess many people resent the law when they get caught ... but whose fault would that be?

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When you enforce laws that make criminals out of ordinary people, ordinary people will become criminals.

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So ... precisely WHICH traffic laws should we chuck? All speed laws? Some speed laws? Any others?

Or should they just not apply to you? Or maybe not to otherwise good girls?

The thing about traffic citations is that they are almost always entirely avoidable. The only ones that might not be are equipment violations.

- Carl

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Quoting cdwjava

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Why? Because you got caught speeding?

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:D But of course! Nobody likes being forced to regurgitate $300 into the hungry maw of bureaucracy! Do you? Would it make you enamored of the government to be "caught" doing something that most people do every day and forced at gunpoint to pay up?

I think that all speed laws should be repealed. Every study done on this topic shows that people drive approximately the same speed no matter what the limit is, so there's no use to speed limits besides doling out tickets. The Autobahn isn't strewn with the lifeless drivers and smoking wrecks of vehicles that went 100.

In any case, I have been in quite a bit of danger over the past week, restricting myself to 65 as I have been. In my wee little car it can be very frightening when the big rigs go blowing past you, and the highbeams and tailgating in the right lane are embarassing!

There's no doubt about it. The 65 mph speed limit makes criminals of 95% of San Diegans, and I don't think that's what laws should do. Just my two cents. (Of course, as I'm a criminal it's probably not worth much) :p

Perhaps next time I should focus on not getting caught? Thanks for the advice ;)

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Quoting chpmagnet

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I think that all speed laws should be repealed. Every study done on this topic shows that people drive approximately the same speed no matter what the limit is, so there's no use to speed limits besides doling out tickets.

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Of course not. :rolleyes:

Perhaps a little more study is in order.

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The Autobahn isn't strewn with the lifeless drivers and smoking wrecks of vehicles that went 100.

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No ... but just ask the police there about the nature of the crashes they DO get. Not a whole lot of fender benders, either. When there is a crash on the autobahn, it's a bad one.

However, I-5 - particularly in the San Diego area - is not the autobahn and is not designed to handle on and off traffic at those speeds. If you want to support the creation of a bypass type roadway that allows for such breakneck speeds - perhaps parallel to I-15 - then go right ahead.

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In any case, I have been in quite a bit of danger over the past week, restricting myself to 65 as I have been. In my wee little car it can be very frightening when the big rigs go blowing past you, and the highbeams and tailgating in the right lane are embarassing!

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Then live dangerously and pump it up to 70. Or call the cops on the speeding big rigs since if they are doing 65 they are likely going over their limit.

I'm SURE you are staying at 65. ;)

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There's no doubt about it. The 65 mph speed limit makes criminals of 95% of San Diegans, and I don't think that's what laws should do. Just my two cents.

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Given that many portions of I-5 (particularly at the 5/805 split) are bottlenecked, going 65 can very often be a challenge anyway.

And don't hold your breath waiting for speed or other traffic laws to be repealed.

- Carl

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Quoting chpmagnet

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Perhaps next time I should focus on not getting caught? Thanks for the advice ;)

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You're welcome.

- Carl

Hahaha... okay. I completely see your points, but you can hardly fault me for getting a little riled up. Nobody likes to get a ticket. Now we're just having fun.

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Quoting cdwjava

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Then live dangerously and pump it up to 70.

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I'm telling you, I learned my lesson about red sports cars. I was truly doing 65 all week. I finally did get up to 70 while driving to LA on Saturday... in a convertible the passing whoosh is shockingly loud! I was sure I'd be squashed flat any minute! At 70 I only got passed every 2 minutes, instead of every 30 seconds.

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Quoting cdwjava

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Given that many portions of I-5 (particularly at the 5/805 split) are bottlenecked, going 65 can very often be a challenge anyway.

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This is why everyone goes so fast when there's room, to get a nice 65mph average :D

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Quoting cdwjava

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And don't hold your breath waiting for speed or other traffic laws to be repealed.

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I certainly won't. However, this is California. Marijuana is already practically legal, it's only a matter of time before laws start falling like dominos. Three cheers for anarchy! ;)

The comments about the autobahn are interesting. I bought a new car in Germany and drove on the autobahn, off and on, for 2 weeks. A couple of things I noticed immediately was that the roads are in very good shape (unlike the "3rd world" roads in California)....I also noticed that the Germans are very good drivers (unlike in California where driving as turned into a right, rather than a privelege).

Here, you don't have to be able to read the signs, see the signs, be able to hear, be physically fit (beyond being able to climb in and out of the car) or show dexterity to any reasonable degree, at all. In Germany, they realize that driving an automobile is very serious business....and they take driver license requirements seriously, without regard to political correctness.

If we had roads where fast driving was permitted, it would look like a destruction derby.:eek: