My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Maine.
Hello all,
So here is my quagmire that I find outright ridiculous. I was heading south bound down I-95 and I came to a clearing and saw a maroon unmarked state trooper in the turn around so I merged into the traveling lane and passed him (I looked at the speedometer) doing 60MPH in a 65MPH zone. No Radar, Lidar or POP was used to gauge my speed by the trooper (I have a fancy radar detector and it didn't make a peep). After I passed him the trooper pulled out and caught up to me (still doing 60MPH in a 65MPH zone), followed for 10 seconds and then turned on his blue lights so I pulled over. He came up to the passenger side window and asked for drivers license, proof of insurance, and registration. He also asked me if I had anything illegal 5 times, which I repeatedly stated I didn't, because I didn't and he said, "So if I go call for a dog the car will be OK?" "Yes." He finally let that be. So then he looked at my insurance and threw it back at me (literally), and then stated that I had allegedly passed a Game Warden (Unmarked) and the Game Warden was doing 85MPH and couldn't catch me and I was driving recklessly, weaving in and out of traffic. I said there must be a mistake because I certainly wasn't going that fast and why was the Game Warden doing 85MPH? He stated the Game Warden was going 85MPH to catch up to me and that I must have been doing 95MPH+. Well I wasn't. I didn't do anything wrong. So he went back to his car with my license and registration and I sat there for a bit, and then a pick up truck pulls in behind him and turns his blue lights on (The Game Warden). The cop goes back to the pick up, then back to his car, then the pick up leaves right after. I sit there for about 10 minutes and the cop comes back with a ticket for imprudent speeding. I'm thinking to myself, really?
So I have a ticket with my name on it and information, nothing in the speed (radar, LIDAR, tracking) area, just imprudent speeding at the bottom and the ticket was written by the state trooper, but issued by the Game Warden. He told me if I contest (which I am) that it will be Me Vs Game Warden. So let's look at the facts:
1. There is no clocked speed by any instrument.
2. A cop wrote a speeding ticket for a Game Warden.
3. The Game Warden had blue lights and a siren (hidden), so if I was actually doing the things stated, why didn't he pull me over in the first place and detain me until a trooper showed up?
4. There is no proof other then the Game Warden said it was my car. No video, no anything. That would be like a civilian calling up and stating they saw a car like mine allegedly going fast, driving recklessly and to pull me over.
Do I have a chance here because I feel as though I have been shafted. If I was driving so fast and reckless why didn't the Game Warden pull me over to begin with? They don't even have a pace speed. The officer said he was going back to his car (after he handed me the ticket) and was going to try and calculate my speed. What? Also, my car has 250K miles on it and is on its last leg, yet the Game Warden had a BRAND NEW TRUCK, so how could he not have caught me if I was allegedly doing these things? I'm confused. Oh, and the cop was nice enough to let the alleged reckless driving charge go. Really?
Please Help. Thanks.
Ticketed Based Upon Game Warden's Claim I Was Speeding
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08-23-2012, 05:39 PMScrewedOverWOWTicketed Based Upon Game Warden's Claim I Was Speeding
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08-23-2012, 08:41 PMDisagreeableRe: Ticketed Based Upon Game Warden's Claim I Was Speeding
Help with what? It is obviously in your best interest to fight the ticket. The game warden, theoretically by his own admission did not visually observe your vehicle from the point he claims to have seen the law being violated and the point you were pulled over. I would question him as to how he can prove it was you. All you need is reasonable doubt. He might not even show for the trial.
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08-23-2012, 11:55 PMThat GuyRe: Ticketed Based Upon Game Warden's Claim I Was SpeedingWhat code section were you cited for? An actual speed number may not be a requirement for any and all offenses.Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
And??Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
Six of one, half a dozen of the other... He had a choice... To chase you, stop you and wait for a trooper... Or to contact a trooper, have him chase you and stop you then the Game Warden can catch up... He made the one he made!Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
EDITED TO ADD:
Actually, according to a quick search of Maine Statutes, it turns out that a Game Warden does have arrest powers but not for traffic violations or general criminal activities... You can read more about his duties in THIS LINK...
For example:
§10353. Duties and powers
3. Same duties and powers as sheriffs.In addition to specified duties and powers, a warden has the same duties and powers throughout the several counties of the State as sheriffs have in their respective counties, except that a warden's primary responsibility is enforcement of laws protecting fish and wildlife.
That is the likely reason why he opted not to chase and stop you the way you wanted him to!
I'm not sure what you're saying. When an officer cites you for a moving violation, there isn't always proof that it was your car. His testimony is sufficient that it was you driving your car who committed the alleged violation. No video or anything... Why/how is it different now?Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
And you think that has never happened? Really? You have never heard of anyone having had a trooper come to the home, ask them question and leave them a traffic citation based on a civilians statement?Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
You ever heard of anyone being in an accident, the officer did not witness the accident but based on the statements of civilian witnesses, he establishes fault on a driver and issues him/her a citation?
Answered under #3 above.Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
I don't know what you mean they don't even have pace speed... But seriously now... If I am driving at 65, you pass me at -clearly- a higher speed, I try to catch up to you so I step on it, I hit 85 and you're still pulling away... That tells me that (1) you are certainly, without any doubt going faster than 65, and (2) there is a good probability that you are going faster than 85 and. It is not rocket science and it does not require a masters degree or a doctorate!Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
The one question that begs itself is that the Game Warden obviously gave a fairly close description of your vehicle, and yes, you can question him about that in court if you choose to contest it... So you had to have passed him at some point in time and within a reasonable period just prior to you getting pulled over.
The follow up question to that and the one that is more important, what would posses the Game Warden to randomly make up such charges and accuse someone he does not know of them!
That question, and after thinking about it for a few minutes, usually puts matters in proper perspective.
Good luck! -
08-24-2012, 09:33 AMScrewedOverWOWRe: Ticketed Based Upon Game Warden's Claim I Was Speeding
Cited Under Section: 2C74
In my state a Game Warden has more authority than a cop does. He had a chance to pull me over and detain me as it is within his powers if I was doing such acts. I've asked a Game Warden about the very same question and the response was that he would pull the individual over and detain them until a cop showed up.
Contested. I talked with someone and the cop and game warden have to show up in court and test against me. If one doesn't show than out the window it goes. I guess Ol' Betsy is allegedly a Ferrari in sheeps clothing. And so a uniform makes you an automatic truth teller? Wow, the police state we live in. The home of the absolutely not free.
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Also, it has been awhile since I have recieved a ticket, but the last time I did I had to sign something or go to jail. Why did I not sign anything this time nor was I asked too? Also, it appears you think my questions are childish, but what gives the game warden the right to drive 85MPH admittedly in a 65MPH zone. He wasn't giving chase. He wasn't doing 85MPH when I alledgely blew by him, rather he said he sped up to 85MPH (admittedly) and could, alledgely, not catch me, yet could give a perfect descripition of the car?
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I just called the state and was told that a Game Warden has the authority to pull any individual over and give them a citation for speeding. Why didn't he do that in the first place? It wasn't because he alledgely couldn't catch me because he had a BRAND NEW TRUCK. He also never used his blue lights, siren, or even attempted to give a chase if there even was one. Now I'm really confused because that would be the same as a Game Warden alledgely seeing my vechicle speeding days ago and writing down my license plate number and telling a cop to pull me over if he ever sees me and furnish me with a ticket. -
08-24-2012, 10:31 AMThat GuyRe: Ticketed Based Upon Game Warden's Claim I Was SpeedingThat is NOT 2C74... Its 2074 which would refer to this section:Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
Link to §2074. Rates of speed
It is fairly long so you can read it in its entirety ^there^....
UHm.... if you read the statute I posted last night it says he has the same authority as a Sheriff (not more) though his primary duty is fish and game...Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
Well you can ask him why he didn't. I'm not sure how it would make any difference though. It has little impact on the charges and it is not likely to affect the penalty much. If you feel this means he lied, made things up, or that it makes their case weaker then by all means capitalize on it. Though you'll have to work on getting past the question of why he didn't! Otherwise, he is likely to give you an answer and that will be that.Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
And yet your case is still pending, your appearance in court is still required, the charges as far as you know are still the same... Maybe this one wanted an officer their in case you tripped out and got belligerent! Again, you'll have to ask him..Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
Well, don't be so quick to claim a win. Think about this... If something came up and you needed a continuance, you would expect the court to accommodate your request. So it is possible that if one of them isn't able to appear, that the prosecutor might ask for a continuance. I'm just hypothesizing so that if it happens, you're not too surprised.Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
OK... All this added drama you're interjecting here isn't helping make your case any stronger nor your claim any more believable. In fact, your attempts to over-dramatize the story is undermining your credibility. You're trying to make it seem like you are so over offended of this huge insurmountable injustice. Well, let me remind you that you were cited for a traffic violation and that you have a day in court coming your way.Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
In fact, if ^this^ is the defense you plan on presenting in court, then you might as well get some more cliche's ready about injustice, an unfair court, a biased judge and lying cops and game wardens. No, a uniform does not make one an automatic truth teller, but I sort of laid out the foundation as to why his word will carry more weight in court. if that to you means you are living in a police state and your freedoms are lost, then so be it; in fact, get used to it!
You should have asked the game warden you spoke to...Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
Does it appear so? What gave you that impression? Is it possible that this is more of a bit of reflection, because I never suggested any such thing? Your questions are indeed misdirected, you're asking us questions that only the warden and/or cop can definitively answer. And for each question that you're asking, I could ask you a few that you yourself couldn't or wouldn't want to answer.Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
I will say that your approach to this situation leaves a lot to be desired. You are acting all frazzled and dramatic which is not only working against you here but will certainly I want to say you're acting in total denial and how that won't help you much, but obviously I was not there, i have no idea what actually happened
Ok... So up top, you're trying to undermine the validity of their case by asking why he didn't chase you/stop you himself. And how he could have as well as he should have. A few sentences later and now you're asking what gives him the right to drive at 85mph when you also stated that he has more authority than a cop...Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
No... probably not... he was probably being a cautious driver and driving 60 in 65.... Kind of to make a point!Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
or maybe he hit 85, didn't want to go faster, called off the chase and called up dispatch as part of another perfectly viable, acceptable and workable option, which accomplished its goal.Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
I personally don't know if it is a "perfect description"... It isn't that difficult to pick up a license plate number of a car that is passing... You see a vehicle in the rear view mirror and its coming up at a high rate of speed, if you're in law enforcement, naturally you may look for a plate number, if he got that, I don't know... The rest of the description, make/model/color and any other identifying marks... I assume he still had a decent visual initially as he was chasing you and for a good time after he gave up on catching you...Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
So, again, you're making big issues of little details, and when you're done with that, you start nitpicking about matters that are irrelevant!
See what I mean? You're still beating a dead horse.Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
And "called the state"? Who did you call at the "state"?
What was the reason then? since you have it all figured out!Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
Oh..., I know... His BRAND NEW TRUCK isn't broken in yet.... And he didn't want to push it too much during the break-in period!!!
Uhm... Regardless, you got pulled over and you were issued a citation!Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
"I'm confused" is not a defense... neither is speculation as to what he did. If the witness is in court, his version of the story becomes part of the record and you simply speculating about a few days ago or weeks before (which really would not make a difference) is not going to work in your favor.Quote:
Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
This is basically a regular speeding citation. It may/may not be worth hiring an attorney for it. But in the least, I suggest you consult with an attorney in your area! Because if you continue on this path you're headed in, on your own, you will lose in court!
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Quoting ScrewedOverWOW
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08-29-2012, 08:25 AMScrewedOverWOWRe: Ticketed Based Upon Game Warden's Claim I Was Speeding
You're twisting what I am saying and making it appear as though that is how I would present myself and case in court. This is not true. I contacted a legal professional and was advised to contest as I have a 90%+ rate of winning. I would not walk into a court room like an arogant narcissist. I would present my version of the incident and refute the Game Warden and State Troopers version of the story as it has some major holes in it. I encountered two other state troopers who were in the median and they never pulled in to take me out, but the one a few miles down the road decided to do it. I also passed these troopers doing 60MPH in a 65MPH zone. How did he not catch me if he was doing 85MPH and I was doing 60MPH? My case is simple. A Game Warden alledgely spotted a vehicle similar to mine driving extemely fast and recklessly, yet did nothing to subdo the criminal even though he has a right and obligation to do so. He did not even attempt to do his job at protecting the public. He stated that he accelerated to 85MPH, but for what reason? I'm told it was to alledgely catch up to me. Why not just use the blue lights and siren from the get go? He alledgely could not catch me while doing 85MPH, but that wouldn't necessarily mean I was going faster then 85MPH as he stated I alledegly blew by him initially. I fully understand that confusion is not a proper defense and I would not use it at all in this case.
The only piece of evidence against my case is that a vehicle fitting my description was allegdely driving imprudently fast according to a Game Warden. There is no proof other then his testimony of as stated, "A vehicle fitting my description was driving imprudently fast." -
08-29-2012, 08:55 AMMr. KnowitallRe: Ticketed Based Upon Game Warden's Claim I Was Speeding
That's what you told the lawyer and the lawyer supposedly responded "if you walk into court on your own and make that same argument, I think you have a 90% chance of winning"? Or did he make some nebulous assertion of, "I think if you hire me we have a 90% chance of beating that ticket"? In the former case, I wouldn't trust such an attorney to walk and chew gum at the same time. In the latter case, that's called a "sales pitch".
When the game warden is asked, "Why didn't you pull over this speeding motorist" he is likely to respond, "I sped up to 85 MPH and the distance between us was still increasing, so I realized that the safe and appropriate thing to do would be to call for assistance and have an officer who was ahead of the speeder pull him over rather than driving at an unsafe speed to try to catch up." Also, "It might have damaged my vehicle to drive at that the necessary speed to catch up," is a valid reason not to do so.
In terms of speed, if you were cited for driving at 85 MPH and the warden appears and testifies, I sped up to 85 MPH and he was still increasing his distance from me," that's ample evidence that you were driving in excess of the speed described on the ticket.
In terms of it being your car, I expect that the warden will confirm that he called in your vehicle identifying it by make, color and license plate, and that it was in fact your vehicle. Depending upon the full facts, he may even be able to identify you as the driver. The "He was mistaken" defense or "He's a big fat liar" defense almost never work - the officer is trained in effecting traffic stops, has no motive to misidentify you, and could face serious career consequences for lying.
Your argument is going to be, "I found the car sitting on the side of the road, got in and drove, and the person the warden must have seen speeding was whomever abandoned the car"? Because if you don't have an explanation for how somebody else was driving your car, the fact that you were the one pulled over behind the wheel is very strong evidence that you were the one speeding. -
08-29-2012, 08:57 AMdavidmcbeth3Re: Ticketed Based Upon Game Warden's Claim I Was Speeding
I doubt the OP has seen a lawyer as he has said or he would know better than to have a defense of "telling your story".
The evidence will be presented at trial - you have no idea what evidence will be shown.
Most MV cases are won via a motion for judgment after the state rests ... your testimony will mean zip to a judge if it conflicts with the cop's testimony.