Should You Lie to Pass a Firearms Background Check

My question involves civil rights in the State of: Texas

says felons can have there rites restored and can even buy a gun from a dealer?? well that's not true if you answer the gun questioner they make you fill out TRUTHFULLY..It ask if you EVER been convicted of a felony of any kind, and your not supposed to lie. So then you tell the truth and they run you out the door.. Its so embarrassing. :(

Did you have a legal question?

Are you anticipating that a legal board will tell you to lie?

i guess you never saw the questions. a felon cannot buy a firearm in Texas if you answer that form correctly. it goes straight to the feds i was told. so do i lie so i can get a gun to protect my family? they say i will get busted if i lie.

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the feds automatically send the pawn shop etc back a blue baler saying you still are a felon. then they call you a lier. BUT if i lie? and say i never been convicted of a felony, they sell me a gun?? is it a bluff they put on? i had a man say in a pawn shop they go as far back as you exist!

Realistically, how likely is it REALLY that you will ever be in a situation where you need a gun to protect yourself or your family?

Are you prepared for the consequences when you are caught?

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Quoting Dbh

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i guess you never saw the questions. a felon cannot buy a firearm in Texas if you answer that form correctly. it goes straight to the feds i was told. so do i lie so i can get a gun to protect my family? they say i will get busted if i lie.

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the feds automatically send the pawn shop etc back a blue baler saying you still are a felon. then they call you a lier. BUT if i lie? and say i never been convicted of a felony, they sell me a gun?? is it a bluff they put on? i had a man say in a pawn shop they go as far back as you exist!

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The law isn't going to change because you feel like you're a special case.

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Quoting Dbh

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i guess you never saw the questions. a felon cannot buy a firearm in Texas if you answer that form correctly. it goes straight to the feds i was told. so do i lie so i can get a gun to protect my family? they say i will get busted if i lie.
!

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if you lie and are caught (a great possibility), I suspect you won't have to worry about protecting your family any longer. You will have to hire somebody to do it for you while you are ...on vacation. ...ya, that's it...vacation.

yes i am! in Texas your perfectly legal to defend yourself and family at your own house were you live..so why should i have to LIE to buy a firearm from a licensed dealer? Felons DO have the rite to prtect themselves. but theres a prob for the ones wanting to do it legal when it comes to the paper work..

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Quoting Dbh

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yes i am! in Texas your perfectly legal to defend yourself and family at your own house were you live..so why should i have to LIE to buy a firearm from a licensed dealer? Felons DO have the rite to prtect themselves. but theres a prob for the ones wanting to do it legal when it comes to the paper work..

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Are you serious?

When you commit a felony you WILLINGLY give up certain rights.

You can't be that obtuse, surely?

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64245

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Quoting Dbh

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.so why should i have to LIE to buy a firearm from a licensed dealer? .

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you don't have to lie. Of course you won't be allowed to buy a gun but you don't have to lie.

Bottom line; you cannot legally purchase a gun. If you get caught with a gun, jail is quite possible. If you lie on the application, jail is possible.

It was your choice to commit a felony. Whether you commit another in your choice.

a bar fight 15 years ago dont make me a bad person. Now its a misdemeanor and a $200 fine. but now it will always be there and it fell off my record yall forums say by now anyways. " if your forums are rite"

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Quoting jk

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you don't have to lie. Of course you won't be allowed to buy a gun but you don't have to lie.

Bottom line; you cannot legally purchase a gun. If you get caught with a gun, jail is quite possible. If you lie on the application, jail is possible.

It was your choice to commit a felony. Whether you commit another in your choice.

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I'm just not understanding why this OP thinks s/he has the "right" to buy/own a gun legally if the law says otherwise.

What, the felony wasn't enough?

What am I missing?

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Quoting Dbh

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a bar fight 15 years ago dont make me a bad person. Now its a misdemeanor and a $200 fine. but now it will always be there and it fell off my record yall forums say by now anyways. " if your forums are rite"

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Could you please try English? Thanks.

Even the ATF Form 4473 has a "loophole" about convicted felons being allowed to buy a firearm from an FFL.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/

Question 12 c.

Have you been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could imprison you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation? (See Important Notice 6, Exception 1)

http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/section12c.htm

12c. A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) restored AND (2)the person is not prohibited by the law where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms.

Therefore, at least in Texas, a convicted felon can legally purchase a firearm from an FFL and "possess" said firearm, but only at his residence. And only five years after he/she is released from all judicial matters (probation, jail, parole).

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Even the ATF Form 4473 has a "loophole" about convicted felons being allowed to buy a firearm from an FFL.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/

Question 12 c.

Have you been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could imprison you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation? (See Important Notice 6, Exception 1)

http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/section12c.htm

12c. A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) restored AND (2)the person is not prohibited by the law where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms.

Therefore, at least in Texas, a convicted felon can legally purchase a firearm from an FFL and "possess" said firearm, but only at his residence. And only five years after he/she is released from all judicial matters (probation, jail, parole).

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AlphaOmega
AlphaOmega is offline Junior Member

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Default Restoring Gun Rights in Texas

Quote Quoting blueeagle View Post
Not necessarily true. Texas restores the right to bear arms 5 years after a felon pays his dues. I'm not sure if it's automatic, or if there is a process the felon must go through?
From what I've gathered so far doing some research - Texas Civil Rights are restored automatically. Which means you are not prohibited from owning a firearm, even under Federal Law.

But there seems to be one small catch - you can only possess the firearm at your residence. I haven't talked to a lawyer yet, but I assume this means you can't take a gun with you to a firing range or use a firearm for hunting. You can only have a firearm at home for home/self defense. *sigh*

My sources:

Brady Denial? by C. E. Hill, Attorney-at-Law

Page 21

Restoration of Civil Rights

In many states, if you are convicted of a felony or even some misdemeanors, you lose certain of your civil rights, including the right to vote, to serve in office, or to sit on a jury. If you lose one or more of these rights by virtue of a conviction and then get these rights back, either automatically at the end of a term of probation and parole or after a certain period of time, or by some application procedure, your conviction no longer counts under federal law to preclude you from firearms possession.


The Texas Gun Owner's Guide Alan Korwin and Georgene Lockwood

Page 21

A felon may not possess a gun until five years after release from prison (or from parole, or community supervision, etc., whichever is later) and then, only at the premises where the person lives (see Penal Code § 46.04). A violation is a 3rd degree felony.


Texas Penal Code 46.04

§ 46.04. UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIREARM. (a) A person
who has been convicted of a felony commits an offense if he
possesses a firearm:
(1) after conviction and before the fifth anniversary
of the person's release from confinement following conviction of
the felony or the person's release from supervision under community
supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision, whichever date is
later; or
(2) after the period described by Subdivision (1), at
any location other than the premises at which the person lives.
(b) A person who has been convicted of an offense under
Section 22.01, punishable as a Class A misdemeanor and involving a
member of the person's family or household, commits an offense if
the person possesses a firearm before the fifth anniversary of the
later of:
(1) the date of the person's release from confinement
following conviction of the misdemeanor; or
(2) the date of the person's release from community
supervision following conviction of the misdemeanor.
(c) A person, other than a peace officer, as defined by
Section 1.07, actively engaged in employment as a sworn, full-time
paid employee of a state agency or political subdivision, who is
subject to an order issued under Section 6.504 or Chapter 85, Family
Code, under Article 17.292 or Chapter 7A, Code of Criminal
Procedure, or by another jurisdiction as provided by Chapter 88,
Family Code, commits an offense if the person possesses a firearm
after receiving notice of the order and before expiration of the
order.
(d) In this section, "family," "household," and "member of a
household" have the meanings assigned by Chapter 71, Family Code.
(e) An offense under Subsection (a) is a felony of the third
degree. An offense under Subsection (b) or (c) is a Class A
misdemeanor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Renumbered from Penal Code § 46.05 and amended by Acts 1993, 73rd
Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994. Amended by Acts 2001,
77th Leg., ch. 23, § 2, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2003, 78th Leg.,
ch. 836, § 4, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.


12-08-2008, 11:09 PM #2
AlphaOmega
AlphaOmega is offline Junior Member

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Exclamation Re: How Can I Restore My Gun Rights (TEXAS Law)

I should add that even though you have you Civil Rights restored, you may still fail the NICS (Brady) background check. If you do, you'll have to file an appeal.

Brady Denial? by C. E. Hill, Attorney-at-Law

Page 69

If your conviction was from a state that precludes persons convicted of a felony from voting while they are in jail, or on probation/parole, but then restores that voting right on release from probation or parole, your right to bear arms has also been restored. A certified copy of the release document that states that your voting rights have been reinstated, or a copy of the statute from the time of your conviction demonstrating that reinstatement of voting rights was law, should either succeed on your administrative Brady appeal and/or should be successful in restoring your rights in federal court.

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Just a fast lesson Boys! :)

Not a lesson for me. I know how to get rights restored but that wasn't your question.....boy.

Good luck with that, sport.

And it's Ma'am, to you.

:cool:

A legal board is not going to advise you to lie, sport. If you're determined to do that, we can't stop you, but on your own head be it - you won't be able to come back and claim that we gave you bad advice after they've carted you off to jail.

I would think that little lie would show up on a background check anyway.....

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Quoting PandorasBox

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I would think that little lie would show up on a background check anyway.....

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yep and that little lie is a felony.

It does appear a Texas resident, as well as residents in at least a few other states, can be regain their rights to possess a weapon. The method varies from state to state. The problem the OP is going to have is; he will almost assuredly be denied initially upon application due to the criminal history. From there he must appeal the denial where he will get a chance to show why his federal rights are not invalidated by the criminal history.

If OP had actually asked that, he would have been told that. The problem; he didn't ask that but simply appeared to be wanting to rant about the system and the embarrassment when being told to leave the gun store. If he knew his rights, there would be no reason for the embarrassment, well, anymore than having to admit to whatever is in his criminal history.

The gun store owner had every right to tell him to leave. That guy, to me, is an honest businessman who doesn't want to have his business closed down due to violating State and Federal weapons laws, nor wants to go to prison for illegally selling a gun to someone he should not have sold to.

If you have had your rights restored then you are usually not considered to be a convicted person. The best thing to do would be to have your record vacated and then you may legally state that you have never been convicted, but the crime can be used in sentencing against you in the future if you are arrested. Once the civil rights have been restored at the state level the feds do not consider a conviction. Look up Federal definition of a convicted person. I know it out there, I just had my rights restored after a felony and a misdemeanor DV, and now I own a shotgun concealed pistol license from my local police department.
If you have the paperwork from the court saying you have had your record vacated you can answer that you have never been convicted of the crime and your application will be approved!

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DMetcalf;661133]If you have had your rights restored then you are usually not considered to be a convicted person.

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Not true at all.

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The best thing to do would be to have your record vacated and then you may legally state that you have never been convicted

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, he has no right to have his record vacated, which I'm not sure what you actually mean. Do you maybe mean expunged? If so, it is not applicable. He is a convicted criminal but due to Texas law, his civil rights have been reinstated simply due to the passage of time. That does not allow him to have his record expunged though.


but the crime can be used in sentencing against you in the future if you are arrested.

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Once the civil rights have been restored at the state level the feds do not consider a conviction.

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again, not true.