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Unemployment Appeal After Denial for Misconduct in California

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  • 07-23-2012, 10:35 PM
    Fortyinphoenix
    Unemployment Appeal After Denial for Misconduct in California
    My question involves unemployment benefits for the state of: California

    Hello. My ruling came back denied for misconduct.

    The policy break involved a transaction that was initially tendered by an employee while I was not working. I followed up on recouping the co-pay. An audit was performed and this transaction was discovered, discussed and documented in may of this year. I admitted my involvement as the transaction in question had occurred three to four weeks prior to the audit.

    Management ('loss prevention', HR, and my supervisor) was aware of the 'policy break' for 7.5 weeks until I was terminated.

    The initial break of policy and intention to carry it out was in fact facilitated by another employee. Also they let me continue to work there after a violation for 7.5 weeks before deciding to let me go.

    We're they not excusing this very violation for almost two months? Do I have a case for condonation?

    Thanks to all who take the time to weigh in.
  • 07-24-2012, 08:23 AM
    cbg
    Re: California UI Appeal After Denial for Misconduct
    If you think you can convince the state of California that because your employers took the time to do an investigation before deciding what action to take, that means they "condoned" your action and the state's decision was in error, feel free to try.
  • 07-24-2012, 09:06 AM
    Fortyinphoenix
    Re: California UI Appeal After Denial for Misconduct
    Quote:

    Quoting cbg
    View Post
    If you think you can convince the state of California that because your employers took the time to do an investigation before deciding what action to take, that means they "condoned" your action and the state's decision was in error, feel free to try.

    Thank you for responding. I never thought an investigation was taking 7.5 weeks. All of the information was documented and ready to go at the conclusion of the audit in early may.
    My boss acknowledged the results with me and told me I would get a final write up, then in the exit interview told me ' I am sorry if I mislead you'.

    This is a huge corporation. They don't can anyone without an air tight case I'm sure. But 7.5 weeks to terminate someone. That confuses me.

    Thanks Again.
  • 07-24-2012, 10:14 AM
    cbg
    Re: California UI Appeal After Denial for Misconduct
    There is nothing in the law that mandates when an employee must be termed; nothing in the law that says when an investigation must be completed, and, in 49 out of 50 states including CA, they don't even need a reason to fire you. They do, however, need a reason constituting misconduct if they want to contest benefits.

    It should be noted, however, that the state, not the employer, determines what constitutes behavior sufficient to deny unemployment. I have had employees denied for unemployment when I didn't even contest, because the state determined that the employee's actions warranted denial of benefits whether I contested or not.

    By all means appeal. I'm not saying not to. No one ever prevailed in an appeal without filing one. But you need to have a realistic understanding of what the employer is likely to respond.
  • 07-24-2012, 11:03 AM
    Fortyinphoenix
    Re: California UI Appeal After Denial for Misconduct
    Thank you CBG.
    Any ideas on how to prep for this?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm struggling with the fact as something 'so severe' as term and ruling of misconduct, why would you keep this person around for 2 months? If it were stealing I'd be gone the day after the audit. If I admited to how I resolved the transaction At the time of the audit, and it was unacceptable then, what was there to investigate? Thanks for clarifying the law and what to expect.
  • 08-02-2012, 04:30 AM
    BennyBlanco
    Re: California UI Appeal After Denial for Misconduct
    You can take a look at the California EDD website, and see what they weigh when making decisions, then see what kind of documentation you have to support your side. Ask around to see if anyone has had a similar situation, or see if you can call EDD to ask them for what youre specifically being denied for, 'misconduct' in this situation could be seen as anything from criminal to accidental, and it makes a big difference.

    cbg is right though, the fact that they took a couple of months doesnt change a lot. Now if it was 2 years, yeah maybe, but big companies generally operate with a lot of red tape and ANY decision that could present legal issues is usually discussed among the powers that be to ensure they cover themselves before a move is made. Not to mention, they have to plan how theyll operate without you there, and may have to keep you longer than they wanted simply because they were just too busy to afford losing anyone.

    Stealing is an illegal activity, so to compare the two offenses is a reach. If you make a mistake with a transaction because of carelessness or lack of understanding, its very different than intentionally committing a crime against your employer. They HAVE to fire you if youre stealing, they have no choice, and thats one of those reasons I mentioned in the other thread that would absolutely cause them to contest your UI claim. They have to make sure everyone understands that stealing will absolutely not be tolerated. Apples and oranges.

    Lots of variables, but as with the incorrect date in your other post, the timing of your termination with respect to the final write up is a moot point. I get the feeling the supervisor said sorry for 'misleding you' because you didnt get that the 'final' warning seems like it accompanied an endorsement for termination, and the delay was probably the higher-ups deciding on what they would do. You should be glad they didnt rush to judgement, and likely looked over your performance pretty closely after this to see if they thought you had a place there. Sometimes, its just not a good fit, not because youre a bad person, but because it just isnt the place for you. That seems like the case here. I dont mean to be rude, but Ive never recieved a single write up at any job in my entire life, so I suppose that I might not understand completely, but it sounds like you had been written up something like 4-5 times in 15 months. If thats true, were you really surprised that they finally let you go? Seems like it was never really a good fit, but I dont know the nature of your employer at all, so I'm just kind of reading the tea leaves here.

    All in all, I would always appeal an unfavorable decision, but hope for the best and expect the worst. Id get out there and see if I could find another job, this might take a bit to resolve, and youve already gotten a denial. Once a decision has been made, overturning it takes strong evidence that there was something fundamentally wrong with the way the decision was reached, or the facts considered when making it. Obviously, not nearly as easy, but again - youve got nothing to lose.
  • 08-06-2012, 08:54 PM
    Fortyinphoenix
    Re: California UI Appeal After Denial for Misconduct
    Thank you for taking the time. Some valuable points to consider. I was never written up for anything at this job, got a favorable review a month prior with a raise. I don't understand why it took two months to can me for something I only followed up on. The policy that was broken is not in our original guide of policies and procedures.
    I will definitely follow up on the file to see what my company reported because it was a one time 'break' that was initiated by an associate who worked for me. Anymore advice or questions on the matter is greatly appreciated. Thank you all.
  • 08-08-2012, 11:34 AM
    thomasdavie
    Re: California UI Appeal After Denial for Misconduct
    It sounds like a confusing situation at best in terms of termination. I believe the employer will have to show cause as to why they let you work there after knowing about it so long.

    It looks as though they were letting you off the hook then decided for other reasons to let you go and backdated their trump card.
  • 08-21-2012, 11:43 AM
    Fortyinphoenix
    Re: California UI Appeal After Denial for Misconduct
    I had my appeal hearing today and it went really well. The key for me was preparation. I drove about 100 miles round trip to pick up the file ahead of time so I could see what documentation the company provided. I showed an attorney (who gave me the consult for free) who recommended a couple of arguments against the employer. The lawyer also told me that the documents they supplied we're fishy (the employer lied) and how to expose those facts.
    The big time employer (huge international corp) sent a 'representative' and my supervisor was on the phone. The truth of the matter was that neither my boss nor the 'representative' were actually there to witness any of the said events. The company did not show/bring/provide ANY proof. The judge seemed to be advocating on my behalf and smiled sometimes.
    The key is preparation. Thanks for everyone who posted here to help me. I will post in a couple days to let everyone know the OFFICIAL outcome.
  • 08-21-2012, 11:44 AM
    cbg
    Re: California UI Appeal After Denial for Misconduct
    Congratulations! I know how worried you've been about this - I'm glad it went well. Here's hoping for a good result!
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