My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California
Thank you in advance for any advice. I am trying to make a decision about whether to contest a ticket via written declaration or whether to take the traffic school option. This is the first ticket I have ever received (and the first time I have ever been pulled over, for that matter.)
A few facts:
- The citation states that I was going 50 mph in a 30 mph zone
- When questioned, the officer stated that he first estimated my speed "at about 500 ft"
- When questioned, the officer stated that he first took a radar reading "at about 300 ft"
- When questioned, the officer stated that "about four and a half seconds" elapsed between the visual estimation and radar reading
The equation I did at home:
- 500 feet - 300 feet = 200 feet (distance traveled)
- 200 ft/4.5 sec = 44.44 ft/sec (distance traveled divided by time it took to travel)
- 44.44/1.47 = 30.23 mph (1.47 ft/sec = 1 mph)
From my (subjective) point of view:
I am not guilty because I was not speeding (as evidenced by the equation above and my own observation) and no one was endangered (clear day, light to moderate traffic, no pedestrians except the officer who walked out into the street to wave me over.) I believe that the officer's radar probably picked up the vehicle that was speeding up behind me (a white pick-up truck, larger than my compact vehicle, that was tailgating me right before I pulled over.) I was in shock and did not argue with the officer prior to receiving the ticket.
When he handed me the ticket to sign I explained my point of view and he sympathized saying, "I feel bad. If I could undo the ticket, I would, but I can't." Then he said, "If I were you - and I'm not telling you to do this - but if I were you, this is what I'd do." He then described the basic process of trial by written declaration and said, "When the paperwork comes to me, I'll do what I almost always do, which is to check the box saying I don't remember."
Why I am trying to decide what to do:
Traffic school seems like an easy (albeit pricey) way out. I am a full-time nursing student and newly pregnant as well. If my written declaration does not succeed in dismissing the ticket, then taking the next step of a court trial would be a hardship for me.
However, I am loath to take the easy way out because of the injustice of it. I did not violate the law and I want the ticket dismissed. I don't want something untrue on my record. That said, I am put off by the standard trial by declaration templates I have seen floating around the internet, as they are full of jargon I don't understand and often make it seem as though the officer was a fool. The officer I dealt with was very kind and courteous and I want to show respect in any written statement I make.
Finally, I am frightened by the idea that a judge would simply rubber-stamp my written declaration guilty.
Any advice or encouragement would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Vesper
Trial by Written Declaration or Traffic School
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06-30-2012, 12:43 PMVesperTrial by Written Declaration or Traffic School
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06-30-2012, 01:30 PMThat GuyRe: 22350: Written Declaration or Traffic SchoolHe is not required to estimate distances (especially not for Radar) or elapsed time... he can estimate if he so chooses, but I highly doubt that approach would get you anywhere simply because you're not likely to overcome the presumption that his Radar reading was that far off!Quote:
Quoting Vesper
I was not speeding would not work simply because the officer has a radar reading but he also has a visual estimate, and even if that only was predicated upon him determining which was the fastest car at the time, it's not difficult to pick out if it was you. The part about not endangering anyone, in my opinion, is a failing argument ads well simply because the way the speed limit was established, the 30 mph limit could be what is described as the "safe speed"... And it is highly unlikely that you can somehow justify driving 20mph in excess of that and having it still be "safe and prudent"!Quote:
Quoting Vesper
"It was the car behind me tailgating me" won't work either simply because it doesn't really sound too convincing; does it? A car was tailgating you at 50 mph whereas you were not speeding? If the car behind you is doing 50, you are either doing 50 or higher to stay away...
well, I hate to do this but there is no such box that I can find!Quote:
Quoting Vesper
here is the form he is required to complete: Officer's Declaration
Maybe he meant he would not submit the form... Maybe his department has an attachment to the TR-235 where he is asked if he remembers.... I don't know!
Encouragement... might be a precursor to disappointment, and I'd hate to do that to anyone without knowing more about the case... One thing is for sure,there are no guarantees in traffic court. But do yourself a favor though... If you are going to make an decision, make an educated decision... You will have to request a copy of the Engineering Survey for the roadway where you were cited (if you tell us which road and in what city this is, we might be able to help you figure out the authority responsible for conducting the survey). And you will need to do some reading to understand the basic premise behind the process of defending a 22350 charge. And you can be sure that the forum is filled with example after example, some are winners, some are losers and some went to appeal... So there is a variety. Read a few and come back with specific questions. By then, you would have requested the survey, and obtained it... Post any questions in this thread and post a copy of the survey and someone, I am sure, will chime in!Quote:
Quoting Vesper
I have not seen "templates" however, there certainly are some officers who are or pretend to be ignorant (of how a valid speed limit is established, for example) and if you're going to act ignorant, I'm going to help you prove it too... I should warn you too that you might come across a judge who is respectful and seemingly very genuine and yet s/he too might lack the basic understanding of speed trap laws and the manner these cases must be adjudicated.Quote:
Quoting Vesper
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06-30-2012, 02:01 PMVesperRe: 22350: Written Declaration or Traffic School
Thank you for such a quick and thorough response. The road is Tujunga Canyon Blvd. in Tujunga, CA (it's a two lane road.)
Based on my conversation with the officer, he was saying that he would write "I don't remember" in the Facts and Circumstances section of the report. He mentioned that if he didn't provide evidence than the judge would be likely to dismiss the ticket.
However, if you honestly think that traffic school is a better option, please say so. -
07-03-2012, 09:04 PMThat GuyRe: Trial by Written Declaration or Traffic SchoolThat would be in the City of Los Angeles, and the survey, if available, would come from LADOT. You'll have to complete page 3 of this form: http://ladot.lacity.org/pdf/PDF103.pdfQuote:
Quoting Vesper
Obviously, you are requesting a certified copy of the most recent Engineering and Traffic Survey which covers the stretch of Tujunga Canyon Blvd and (whatever cross street the officer indicated on your citation under "Location of Violation" box.).
You should have it within 10 days from the date they receive your request.
You'll have to provide $4 somehow (check or credit card)
There is no arguing with the fact that he's trying to give you the impression that he would concede and let you win. However, in spite of the fact that you keep coming back trying to justify his claim, I'm going to have to disappoint you again. Typically, if the officer doesn't remember or for some reason is going to intentionally lose, he would simply refrain from submitting the declaration.Quote:
Quoting Vesper
But to say that he will submit one stating he has no recollection of the citation, not going to happen.
In fact, (this was LAPD, correct?) There is a story that involves LAPD and the statement "I do not recall the details of the incident" (or words to that effect) -let me look it up and, if I find it, I'll post it.....
So I don't know what his point was! Could be that he felt bad for writing you up, could be that he was chit chatting , or flirting, or who knows!
Either way, if he intends on letting you win, he should have no objection to you presenting a winning declaration. So let's see if we can come up with one and we'll go from there!
We'll try not to make him look like an idiot! (J/K)
First, let me tell you that typically, to contest the citation, whether by TBD or court trial, you will have to post bail which, for 20mph over the limit, should be approximately $360. If you do prevail in the case, the court will refund the full amount to you. If you lose, the court keeps your moiney and you can bet that it does actually lessen the sting of losing, compared to losing and still having to pay at the time!.Quote:
Quoting Vesper
That being said, you can bet your bottom dollar that if there is anyone on this forum who will not hesitate on recommending traffic school if it were your better option, it would be me.
But if there is a way you can manage to have your $360 refunded to you, then I am sure you would not mind that, would you? Think of how many diapers will that buy!!!