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My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate, at the Hospital

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  • 06-14-2012, 07:41 PM
    margie1208
    My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate, at the Hospital
    My question involves paternity law for the State of: Florida
    My son signed a childs birth certificate while in the hospital with his girlfriend that just gave birth. The child is not his. The relationship lasted 2 years and now they are broken up and he is with another girl that is pregnant with his child. He has been helping the ex girlfriend with money for the child he knew as his for the last 6 months but just out of pocket, nothing legal. He cannot afford to keep giving this ex girlfriend support money with a child of his own on the way. What are his responsibilities to the first child?
  • 06-14-2012, 08:16 PM
    cyjeff
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    He is the legal father of the first child. If the mother wishes, she may take him to court to begin child support payments.

    When he signed the birth certificate and, most importantly, began raising the child with the mother, the financial well being of that child became his responsibility.
  • 06-14-2012, 08:29 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    Exactly when did he sign those paternity papers?

    (If he can't afford to keep supporting the first child, he quite honestly has no business in creating another)
  • 06-15-2012, 12:01 PM
    margie1208
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    Maybe so but whats done is done, Hind site 20 20 and all that and he signed them in the hospital with his then girlfriend.
  • 06-15-2012, 12:06 PM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    You're not going to answer the question?
  • 06-15-2012, 12:26 PM
    jk
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    Quote:

    Quoting margie1208
    View Post
    Maybe so but whats done is done, Hind site 20 20 and all that and he signed them in the hospital with his then girlfriend.

    so he lied on the paternity paperwork in order to claim paternity? as well as the mother doing the same?
  • 06-15-2012, 12:48 PM
    margie1208
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    The boy was in love for the first time, trying to do the right thing, hearing about all the abuse the then girlfriend was taking from everyone else, she was kicked out of her home which was very dysfunctional, but she was a manipulator to this boy and he did not understand the severity of what he signed and just what it meant. OK so he was immature but is that a life sentence to have when he has no contact with either one of these people now and does not want any. What I am saying is he has no relationship with the child and no fatherly feelings at all for this child which has a new man in his life ( the mothers new boyfriend) We live in a small town and news to one is to all.
  • 06-15-2012, 01:05 PM
    jk
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    Quote:

    OK so he was immature but is that a life sentence to have when he has no contact with either one of these people now and does not want any.
    as the father, he does have the right to sue for visitation, and even custody of the child. If he refuses to exercise his rights, that is on him. Doesn't give him the right to escape the responsibilities he took on by lying and signing the paternity paperwork.

    - - - Updated - - -

    he has a real problem due to his actions. Florida statute 742.18:



    Quote:

    (3) Notwithstanding subsection (2), a court shall not set aside the paternity determination or child support order if the male engaged in the following conduct after learning that he is not the biological father of the child:
    (a) Married the mother of the child while known as the reputed father in accordance with s. 742.091 and voluntarily assumed the parental obligation and duty to pay child support;
    (b) Acknowledged his paternity of the child in a sworn statement;
    (c) Consented to be named as the child's biological father on the child's birth certificate;
    (d) Voluntarily promised in writing to support the child and was required to support the child based on that promise;
    (e) Received written notice from any state agency or any court directing him to submit to scientific testing which he disregarded; or
    (f) Signed a voluntary acknowledgment of paternity as provided in s. 742.10(4).

    the only possibility I am aware of that would allow him to be removed as the father is if the real bio father would sue to establish his paternity.
  • 06-15-2012, 01:15 PM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    Quote:

    Quoting margie1208
    View Post
    The boy was in love for the first time, trying to do the right thing, hearing about all the abuse the then girlfriend was taking from everyone else, she was kicked out of her home which was very dysfunctional, but she was a manipulator to this boy and he did not understand the severity of what he signed and just what it meant. OK so he was immature but is that a life sentence to have when he has no contact with either one of these people now and does not want any. What I am saying is he has no relationship with the child and no fatherly feelings at all for this child which has a new man in his life ( the mothers new boyfriend) We live in a small town and news to one is to all.

    You have been repeatedly asked how long ago this occurred. How about answering?
  • 06-15-2012, 10:22 PM
    margie1208
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    just 3 years
  • 06-15-2012, 10:28 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    Then legally, he's Dad. End of story.

    The only person with standing to challenge that now is biological Dad. Nobody is going to force him to be part of the child's life, but your son IS on the hook to support his child.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote:

    Quoting margie1208
    View Post
    The boy was in love for the first time, trying to do the right thing, hearing about all the abuse the then girlfriend was taking from everyone else, she was kicked out of her home which was very dysfunctional, but she was a manipulator to this boy and he did not understand the severity of what he signed and just what it meant. OK so he was immature but is that a life sentence to have when he has no contact with either one of these people now and does not want any. What I am saying is he has no relationship with the child and no fatherly feelings at all for this child which has a new man in his life ( the mothers new boyfriend) We live in a small town and news to one is to all.


    A "life sentence"? Come now. He has a child - time to face reality. Life sentence though?
  • 08-05-2012, 07:00 AM
    Rider673
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    Margie: Your son may disestablish himself as the legal father of the child. The requirements are found in Florida Statute 742.18. He can disestablish paternity even if he consented to be named as the child's biological father on the child's birth certificate as long as he found out the child wasn't his after signing the acknowledgment of paternity. Read just a bit further up in jk's post above the bolded line. That bold line is only half a law.

    That statute contains a number of important requirements that your son needs to pay attention to. Please make sure he reads and understands it, and ideally, hires an attorney who specializes in family law. There are actions, that if he takes now, will make things difficult or impossible for him. Unless he is under a court order, he should probably not be sending her money. If he Is under a court order, he'd better not stop until the paternity issue is resolved.

    The good news is that as long as he meets the requirements of 742.18, the court [B]must[B] grant him relief on his petition to revoke paternity. It does not have discretion for "the child's best interests" or "maintaining the status quo" or anything else. He has until the child turns 18 to disestablish paternity, but for the child's sake he needs to do it soon or never.

    Finally, to everyone here that seems to be giving Margie a hard time (along with completely incorrect advice and bold statements that have no basis in law or reality): There is no shame in her son trying to disestablish paternity and not have to support this child. He was deceived and is the victim of a fraud perpetrated by his former girlfriend. He now needs to set things right for himself and his new family and thankfully, Florida law gives him that ability.
  • 08-05-2012, 07:39 AM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    The problem here, of course, is that there is no new evidence. Junior knew he was lying when he signed the affidavit of parentage. He cannot claim to have suddenly discovered he was not the child's biological father, as he's known that from day one. Note specifically subsection (3), which precludes the setting aside of paternity when you knowingly lie on an acknowledgment of paternity form.
    Quote:

    Quoting Florida Statutes, Sec. 742.18. Disestablishment of paternity or termination of child support obligation.
    (1) This section establishes circumstances under which a male may disestablish paternity or terminate a child support obligation when the male is not the biological father of the child. To disestablish paternity or terminate a child support obligation, the male must file a petition in the circuit court having jurisdiction over the child support obligation. The petition must be served on the mother or other legal guardian or custodian of the child. If the child support obligation was determined administratively and has not been ratified by a court, then the petition must be filed in the circuit court where the mother or legal guardian or custodian resides. Such a petition must be served on the Department of Revenue and on the mother or legal guardian or custodian. If the mother or legal guardian or custodian no longer resides in the state, the petition may be filed in the circuit court in the county where the petitioner resides. The petition must include:

    (a) An affidavit executed by the petitioner that newly discovered evidence relating to the paternity of the child has come to the petitioner’s knowledge since the initial paternity determination or establishment of a child support obligation.

    (b) The results of scientific tests that are generally acceptable within the scientific community to show a probability of paternity, administered within 90 days prior to the filing of such petition, which results indicate that the male ordered to pay such child support cannot be the father of the child for whom support is required, or an affidavit executed by the petitioner stating that he did not have access to the child to have scientific testing performed prior to the filing of the petition. A male who suspects he is not the father but does not have access to the child to have scientific testing performed may file a petition requesting the court to order the child to be tested.

    (c) An affidavit executed by the petitioner stating that the petitioner is current on all child support payments for the child for whom relief is sought or that he has substantially complied with his child support obligation for the applicable child and that any delinquency in his child support obligation for that child arose from his inability for just cause to pay the delinquent child support when the delinquent child support became due.

    (2) The court shall grant relief on a petition filed in accordance with subsection (1) upon a finding by the court of all of the following:

    (a) Newly discovered evidence relating to the paternity of the child has come to the petitioner’s knowledge since the initial paternity determination or establishment of a child support obligation.

    (b) The scientific test required in paragraph (1)(b) was properly conducted.

    (c) The male ordered to pay child support is current on all child support payments for the applicable child or that the male ordered to pay child support has substantially complied with his child support obligation for the applicable child and that any delinquency in his child support obligation for that child arose from his inability for just cause to pay the delinquent child support when the delinquent child support became due.

    (d) The male ordered to pay child support has not adopted the child.

    (e) The child was not conceived by artificial insemination while the male ordered to pay child support and the child’s mother were in wedlock.

    (f) The male ordered to pay child support did not act to prevent the biological father of the child from asserting his paternal rights with respect to the child.

    (g) The child was younger than 18 years of age when the petition was filed.

    (3) Notwithstanding subsection (2), a court shall not set aside the paternity determination or child support order if the male engaged in the following conduct after learning that he is not the biological father of the child:

    (a) Married the mother of the child while known as the reputed father in accordance with s. 742.091 and voluntarily assumed the parental obligation and duty to pay child support;

    (b) Acknowledged his paternity of the child in a sworn statement;

    (c) Consented to be named as the child’s biological father on the child’s birth certificate;

    (d) Voluntarily promised in writing to support the child and was required to support the child based on that promise;

    (e) Received written notice from any state agency or any court directing him to submit to scientific testing which he disregarded; or

    (f) Signed a voluntary acknowledgment of paternity as provided in s. 742.10(4).

    (4) In the event the petitioner fails to make the requisite showing required by this section, the court shall deny the petition.

    (5) In the event relief is granted pursuant to this section, relief shall be limited to the issues of prospective child support payments and termination of parental rights, custody, and visitation rights. The male’s previous status as father continues to be in existence until the order granting relief is rendered. All previous lawful actions taken based on reliance on that status are confirmed retroactively but not prospectively. This section shall not be construed to create a cause of action to recover child support that was previously paid.

    (6) The duty to pay child support and other legal obligations for the child shall not be suspended while the petition is pending except for good cause shown. However, the court may order the child support to be held in the registry of the court until final determination of paternity has been made.

    (7)

    (a) In an action brought pursuant to this section, if the scientific test results submitted in accordance with paragraph (1)(b) are provided solely by the male ordered to pay child support, the court on its own motion may, and on the petition of any party shall, order the child and the male ordered to pay child support to submit to applicable scientific tests. The court shall provide that such scientific testing be done no more than 30 days after the court issues its order.

    (b) If the male ordered to pay child support willfully fails to submit to scientific testing or if the mother or legal guardian or custodian of the child willfully fails to submit the child for testing, the court shall issue an order determining the relief on the petition against the party so failing to submit to scientific testing. If a party shows good cause for failing to submit to testing, such failure shall not be considered willful. Nothing in this paragraph shall prevent the child from reestablishing paternity under s. 742.10.

    (c) The party requesting applicable scientific testing shall pay any fees charged for the tests. If the custodian of the child is receiving services from an administrative agency in its role as an agency providing enforcement of child support orders, that agency shall pay the cost of the testing if it requests the test and may seek reimbursement for the fees from the person against whom the court assesses the costs of the action.

    (8) If the relief on a petition filed in accordance with this section is granted, the clerk of the court shall, within 30 days following final disposition, forward to the Office of Vital Statistics of the Department of Health a certified copy of the court order or a report of the proceedings upon a form to be furnished by the department, together with sufficient information to identify the original birth certificate and to enable the department to prepare a new birth certificate. Upon receipt of the certified copy or the report, the department shall prepare and file a new birth certificate that deletes the name of the male ordered to pay child support as the father of the child. The certificate shall bear the same file number as the original birth certificate. All other items not affected by the order setting aside a determination of paternity shall be copied as on the original certificate, including the date of registration and filing. If the child was born in a state other than Florida, the clerk shall send a copy of the report or decree to the appropriate birth registration authority of the state where the child was born. If the relief on a petition filed in accordance with this section is granted and the mother or legal guardian or custodian requests that the court change the child’s surname, the court may change the child’s surname. If the child is a minor, the court shall consider whether it is in the child’s best interests to grant the request to change the child’s surname.

    (9) The rendition of an order granting a petition filed pursuant to this section shall not affect the legitimacy of a child born during a lawful marriage.

    (10) If relief on a petition filed in accordance with this section is not granted, the court shall assess the costs of the action and attorney’s fees against the petitioner.

    (11) Nothing in this section precludes an individual from seeking relief from a final judgment, decree, order, or proceeding pursuant to Rule 1.540, Florida Rules of Civil Procedure, or from challenging a paternity determination pursuant to s. 742.10(4).

  • 08-05-2012, 07:54 AM
    Rider673
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    @MrKnowItAll: Did you see something in this thread that I missed (entirely possible)? All I saw is that he signed an acknowledgment of paternity at the hospital when the child was born. If that is the case then he certainly found out he wasn't the child's father until after signing the AOP, so (3) above doesn't apply. Why do you allege that he was lying? It sounds more like he made a mistake of fact based on an omission or misrepresentation made by mom. What am I missing?

    Also in (2) you see that "newly discovered" only means "after he signed the AOP" so it doesn't really matter if it was yesterday or a week after he acknowledged paternity. As long as it was after (and unless they did it [a paternity test] while she was pregnant (possible but unheard of)), he can file a petition to revoke.

    Edit to add: Ahhh. Was she so pregnant when they met that he couldn't possibly be the father? If so he's toast. But if he could have been the father from a timing perspective, then he didn't "know" he wasn't the father until the paternity test was done.
  • 08-05-2012, 08:09 AM
    Dogmatique
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    Out of sheer curiosity, where can you sign and file an AOP prior to birth?
  • 08-05-2012, 08:10 AM
    Rider673
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    Who said you could? I didn't.
  • 08-05-2012, 08:25 AM
    Dogmatique
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    You did, you prune:

    Quote:

    As long as it was after (and unless they did it while she was pregnant (possible but unheard of)

    Again - WHERE is this possible?
  • 08-05-2012, 08:26 AM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    The mother confirmed that her son knowingly lied about his paternity.
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    so he lied on the paternity paperwork in order to claim paternity? as well as the mother doing the same?

    Quote:

    Quoting margie1208
    View Post
    The boy was in love for the first time, trying to do the right thing, hearing about all the abuse the then girlfriend was taking from everyone else, she was kicked out of her home which was very dysfunctional, but she was a manipulator to this boy and he did not understand the severity of what he signed and just what it meant. OK so he was immature but is that a life sentence to have when he has no contact with either one of these people now and does not want any. What I am saying is he has no relationship with the child and no fatherly feelings at all for this child which has a new man in his life ( the mothers new boyfriend) We live in a small town and news to one is to all.

    Also, this is incorrect:
    Quote:

    Quoting Rider673
    View Post
    Also in (2) you see that "newly discovered" only means "after he signed the AOP" so it doesn't really matter if it was yesterday or a week after he acknowledged paternity. As long as it was after (and unless they did it [a paternity test] while she was pregnant (possible but unheard of)), he can file a petition to revoke.

    The statute requires newly discovered evidence in addition to the DNA test result - two separate requirements.
  • 08-05-2012, 08:30 AM
    Rider673
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    Sorry. I made mention of a paternity test in an earlier sentence I deleted. So "it" refers to a paternity test.
  • 08-05-2012, 08:31 AM
    free9man
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    No, paternity tests are NOT unheard during pregnancy. It's not recommended but it does happen.
  • 08-05-2012, 08:38 AM
    Rider673
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    @MrKnowItAll: Yeah I see that but I read that more as mom trying to explain the whole situation rather than directly answering the question that was asked.

    I'm still not clear on how pregnant she was when they were dating, and that matters a lot. If the baby could have been his (i.e., if they were together, say, sevenish months before the baby was born) or even if she simply wasn't visibly pregnant when they started dating then he can likely revoke his AOP. Because in that case he wouldn't have *known* the baby wasn't his until they did a paternity test, after he signed the AOP.
  • 08-05-2012, 08:40 AM
    Dogmatique
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    In other words, when we're not sure, we ask the question. ;)
  • 08-05-2012, 08:47 AM
    Rider673
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    In other words, when we're not sure, we ask the question. ;)

    Huh? Nobody else on this thread has any more information than what is here and you guys are answering as though you have it all figured out.

    All we know is that he was with her in the hospital, signed an AOP and his mom says the baby isn't his. Those are all of the relevant facts we have. What needs to be answered is just one question: when did he [from a legal standpoint] *know* the baby wasn't his? Was it before or after they were at the hospital?
  • 08-05-2012, 09:35 AM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: My Son Was 17 when He Signed a Birth Certificate in Florida, at the Hospital
    What we know is that you came to this thread, failed to read the facts, posted incorrect information, got called on it, and aren't mature enough to take responsibility for your mistake.
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