Self-Defense to an Assault and Battery Charge

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Quoting indybail

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I got to say, after reading this tale, written in your own words, I believe you are a substance abuser who in the pursuit of obtaining the substances you abuse while armed exercised extraordinary bad judgement resulting in felonious criminal behavior.

Get yourself some help for your addiction problems and move on.

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Sure. I have never abused drugs in my life, and I have to take regular drug tests as a requirement for being prescribed the medication for my migraine disease. Not to mention, I have a wife who is a doctor, and would no doubt be divorced should I be a drug addict prone to rage and violence. Thank you for reminding me why I didn't want a jury trial.

The simple fact is that I have to take pain medication at times as this is the only way to stop the excruciating pain of the migraine. I don't think I am going to start a drug cartel with 10 pain pills. Migraines are one of the most painful experiences that a person will ever have to suffer through and I was born with them and diagnosed with an MRI/MRA scan of my brain when I was 5 years old. Do to think I began my conspiracy to deceive doctors at birth so that I could take pain medication that makes you feel like crap?

I hate taking pain medication, as it makes me ill, itchy, dumb, and unable to perform at my best. You couldn't take 1 week in my body, let alone one of my migraines, so please, go troll somewhere else. Migraines are a genetic, hereditary, neurovascular disease, and they are referred to as "suicide headaches" for a reason. Another genetic and hereditary disease that runs in my family is called degenerative disc disease, and that is the reason my c-spine resembles a set of broken tinker toys. The dislocated ECU tendon was a result of me trying to surprise my pregnant wife with a Christmas tree when she got home from work, as she was pregnant and did not feel like she could lift parts of the heavy tree we have in our attic. She made the comment that she wished we could get the tree up, but neither one of us could lift anything very heavy at that time.

I took a day off, and while she was a work I got a nylon bag and began to take the tree down one piece at a time, as I can't lift over 35 pounds without risking further injury to my back. As I was coming down the staircase, the strap on the bag, which I had wrapped both of my hands in snapped on the left side, which let all the weight jerk my right wrist in a direction it is not designed to turn. I never asked for pain medication for this injury, and did not accept the pain medication when offered. This is part of the agreement I have with my headache specialist, and I do not take pain medication prescribed by any other doctor besides him. If I were to do so, he would see it in the pharmacy records, and that could be the end of his treatment. ALL pain patients have to sign agreements such as this in order to receive narcotics to treat their pain.

My doctor actually makes an exception to this rule if there is an acute injury that has nothing to due with migraines, but I wanted him to feel comfortable that I was not taking more pain medication than needed. The arm and wrist hurt, yes, but it mainly only hurt if I was bending my wrist, and that problem was solved with an splint that stretched from my wrist to my elbow, thus I had no need for narcotic pain medication, although I will admit that I took Advil. Should I seek treatment for an addiction to Advil? I don't even take pain medication for my herniated discs, but I do a lot of physical therapy and traction splints in order to help ease the pressure on my spinal cord.

Thank you for your baseless assertions that I am a drug addict, and proving yourself as ignorant as the doctor. I can just as easily assert you are a pedophile. Get yourself some help and quit molesting children. See how easy that was?

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I hate taking pain medication, as it makes me ill, itchy, dumb, and unable to perform at my best. You couldn't take 1 week in my body, let alone one of my migraines, so please, go troll somewhere else

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while I think the other poster was a bit off the mark, that one statement speaks volumes. It is a "Oh whoa is me. I have it so bad. Nobody could handle what I have to"


Tell ya what. I have a friend with a kid that has CVS (look it up if you want to know). Some kids with the illness move to a different stage as they mature. That stage happens to be migraines and the crazy thing is; they consider that a relief from what they have experienced prior to that.

Not trying to minimize migraines but honestly, if you think you are the only person with problems, you need to go back to the counselor.

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ALL pain patients have to sign agreements such as this in order to receive narcotics to treat their pain.

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Um, no, they don't. and yes, I know several people that would have to sign an agreement if that was the case and I know, for certain, they haven't.

Fine JK, you are a ninja and know everything that should have happened based on an internet post. With your extensive experience in gun fights, I am sure you would have done everything perfectly, and that people clear a 20 foot diameter in any direction you walk, as they know you are the best internet commando around.

All of you are just trying to fight instead of offer any insight or opinion on the questions I asked. Luckily I have found another forum where the people are not so angry or determined to degrade a person who was only trying to educate themselves further, and I will spend my time there while waiting on the appointment with an attorney later this week. I will leave you all to your bickering and bloviating, as you are no help and are not interested in doing anything but debating for the sake of debating. This is mental masturbation for a bunch of people who are internet lawyers and keyboard commandos. I thought there would be some "experts" on this forum that were interested in explaining some options available to their fellow man, and I was obviously mistaken.

In a way though, you have all made me feel better about taking the plea deal, as I don't want people as arrogant, and angry as the lot of you deciding my fate. Luckily for me, I am rich ;), and I will find someone who is an actual expert, and does not spend their time creating a disagreement over details that have nothing to do with the actual questions posted. I hope you all find someone to give you a hug, as I think you all need one badly.

I would humbly suggest that you all work on your manners, and try to find a way to feel good about yourselves that doesn't involve castigating innocent people for a situation that was out of their control. I know who I am, and I know I performed perfectly, and if I had it all to do over again, I would do the exact same thing. The only real problem with being a felon is that it is very hard to find employment, but as I work for myself, I don't have that problem, which is just one of the great benefit of being me. In time, I will accept the injustice, as it will have little effect on my life, other than to serve as a reminder that the majority of humanity is biased, unfair, indifferent, and more disappointed in themselves than I will ever be.

Even though you had no intention of helping, you actually did help me realize why I didn't want a jury trial. The plea was certainly the best option, as I have no doubt the jury would do just as you all have done, which is to bicker and degrade without any real reflection on what happened, and instead would spend their time defending their own cognitive bias fallacies. I think you all would be served greatly if you focused more on your critical thinking skills, instead of trying to develop a rhetorical style that barely contains your enormous egos. I hope none of you ever have to go through what I did, but it might just be the thing that knocks you off your high-horse, and makes you better people, and certainly less judgmental towards other people who have been on the wrong end of the justice system.

I still have all of my guns, as I hid them before police ever arrived, which turned out not to be unnecessary as I would not allow them consent to enter into my home, and they had to stand outside flipping through the cliff notes of law every dolt that is a police officer is given because they can't memorize any case law or statute. I still laugh at the memory of them trying to figure out a way to get into my home, but all they had was an arrest warrant, and they were too stupid to find an exigent circumstance to enter into my home. Not to mention, that they would have never been able to get into my gun safe, if they were even able to find it, as it is better than a bank vault. (another benefit of being rich and me) My safe costs more than they will make in the next 5 years. LMAO! That is what they get for not going to college, and spending the majority of their time learning how to tackle people. You were right about one thing JK, I do have the ability to drop out of life, and basically do whatever the hell I want. Thanks for reminding me of that fact, and that I will never have to depend on people like you for anything.

I am going to throw some money at an attorney or two on Wednesday, and I will let them worry about it. If it gets expunged that would be a bonus, but if it doesn't, the felony really has no impact on my life at all now that I think about it. I am not treated any differently by my friends, family, colleagues, and thus nothing is going to change in that regard either. I have a private shooting range on some farmland that I bought 10 years ago, and no officer will even be able to walk onto the property, let alone catch me shooting a firearm for fun. Nor will they be able to prevent me from keeping some of those firearms in my home for self defense. Hell, they will not even be able to stop me from carrying concealed. So in reality, I have just allowed myself to get too stressed for no reason at all, and I have let the unwashed masses make me feel bad about myself, when I actually have no reason to be ashamed at all.

I am a good person, good looking, rich, have a beautiful family and wonderful daughter, many friends, and I have no doubt that when I finish my Phd. I will have no problem getting this conviction expunged or pardoned, as I have many friends that work for the governor, and my family is very involved in fundraising for political candidates. Did I mention I was rich? That also helps a lot too. I think you all may be so angry because you are not rich, which is a shame, and while it is great to be me, it must suck being you. Especially when it is your turn to have a bizarre and illogical legal issue thrust into your life.

All in all, besides the dreams, I have it very, very well. The dreams will stop in time as I realize that it was not my fault what happened, and especially the way I feel after hearing all of your blathering, armchair opinions. I know I made the right decision, and giving this case to a bunch of uneducated, American Idol worshiping, couldn't get into even a crappy community college, angry and bitter poor people, would have been the only bad decision I made in regards to this case.

You kids have fun getting up early in the morning to go to work, and think about me sleeping in late, and earning twice what you make in a month with one tenant on my farmland, while I lay beside my pool and laugh at the idiocy of humanity. Cheers! :cool:

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Quoting Insons Insontis

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My questions are the following: 1. Should the charges have been consolidated? 2. Should my attorney have filed a motion to dismiss the charge involving the nurse, as she was the one responsible for jumping in between the doctor and me, and since I was not facing the doctor, had no idea she was even behind me?

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Your questions reflect great confusion about criminal procedure, and really amount to wishful thinking. When you have more than one victim, you can face separate charges for each victim. Your confusion about who was standing where doesn't change the the fact of where you pointed a loaded gun. You can be charged with both aggravated assault and terroristic threatening - terroristic threatening is not a lesser included charge of aggravated assault - and even if you had an argument for "consolidation" (a term you don't properly use) you rendered the issue moot when you chose to enter a plea bargain.

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Quoting Insons Insontis

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3. Should he have filed a motion to exclude the witness testimony based upon blatant contradictions, and the fact that the statements changed during the course of the interviews as people discussed what actually happened?

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The proceeding at which you challenge a witness's testimony and question them about alleged contradictions is called a "trial". You chose to enter a "no contest" plea, so there was no trial.

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Quoting Insons Insontis

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4. Is there any recourse my attorney should have pursued regarding the violation of criminal procedure during the interviews and the fact that they sought no exculpatory evidence in my defense.

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The police don't work for you and don't have to question witnesses in the manner you believe they should. If they obtain exculpatory information they need to turn it over, but that does not apply to "evidence" that exists only in your imagination.

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Insons Insontis;623288]Fine JK, you are a ninja and know everything that should have happened based on an internet post. With your extensive experience in gun fights, I am sure you would have done everything perfectly, and that people clear a 20 foot diameter in any direction you walk, as they know you are the best internet commando around.

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Hey, I like that. Maybe I'll see if I can change my user name to internet ninja

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All of you are just trying to fight instead of offer any insight or opinion on the questions I asked.

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that was addressed long ago.
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I thought there would be some "experts" on this forum that were interested in explaining some options available to their fellow man, and I was obviously mistaken.

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Hey, you are the one that wrote the novel and included way more information than was necessary to ask what few questions you did ask.

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Luckily for me, I am rich ;),

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Ya, I can tell. Remember when OJ was on trial? How many lawyers did he have? Start looking around to see who a rich person has at their defense table and how many there are. Who did you have?

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I would humbly suggest that you all work on your manners,

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I guess you wanted this site

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and try to find a way to feel good about yourselves that doesn't involve castigating innocent people for a situation that was out of their control.

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Out of their control? You started the fight, remember, where you yelled at the doctor and felt the need to chastise him?

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I know who I am, and I know I performed perfectly,

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hey insons. It's time to wake up. You've been having those delusional dreams again. Come on now. Wakey wakey.

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and if I had it all to do over again, I would do the exact same thing.

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including starting the fight? Wow, I guess you aren't as smart as you think you are.

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The only real problem with being a felon is that it is very hard to find employment, but as I work for myself, I don't have that problem,

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Oh, so now you work for yourself? Oh, I get it: prostitution;) Get it?? work for yourself!!

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In time, I will accept the injustice, as it will have little effect on my life, other than to serve as a reminder that the majority of humanity is biased, unfair, indifferent, and more disappointed in themselves than I will ever be.

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yes, become comfortable with being branded: felon. I bet is suits you well.

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Even though you had no intention of helping, you actually did help me realize why I didn't want a jury trial. The plea was certainly the best option, as I have no doubt the jury would do just as you all have done, which is to bicker and degrade without any real reflection on what happened, and instead would spend their time defending their own cognitive bias fallacies.

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You're a funny boy. You have no idea how a trial works apparently. What you presented here just isn't fodder for the courtroom witness chair.

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. I hope none of you ever have to go through what I did, but it might just be the thing that knocks you off your high-horse, and makes you better people, and certainly less judgmental towards other people who have been on the wrong end of the justice system.

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I can guarantee I won't. I don't like to yell at doctors that speak their mind. In fact, I specifically ask every doctor I see to do just.

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I still have all of my guns, as I hid them before police ever arrived, which turned out not to be unnecessary as I would not allow them consent to enter into my home,

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Ok, now I know you are out and out lying.

a.

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I still laugh at the memory of them trying to figure out a way to get into my home, but all they had was an arrest warrant, and they were too stupid to find an exigent circumstance to enter into my home.

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You are writing comedy now, right?

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if they were even able to find it, as it is better than a bank vault. (another benefit of being rich and me) My safe costs more than they will make in the next 5 years. LMAO! That is what they get for not going to college, and spending the majority of their time learning how to tackle people. You were right about one thing JK, I do have the ability to drop out of life, and basically do whatever the hell I want. Thanks for reminding me of that fact, and that I will never have to depend on people like you for anything.

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adding chapters to the book I see.

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I am going to throw some money at an attorney or two on Wednesday, and I will let them worry about it. If it gets expunged that would be a bonus, but if it doesn't, the felony really has no impact on my life at all now that I think about it.

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. Oh ya, this does affect your wife. Being a doctor living with a felon tends to have some odd and bad effects. I guess you haven't figured that out yet. You will and so will she.

I am not treated any differently by my friends, family, colleagues, and thus nothing is going to change in that regard either.

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I have a private shooting range on some farmland that I bought 10 years ago, and no officer will even be able to walk onto the property, let alone catch me shooting a firearm for fun.

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Oh really? Apparently that little stint in law school didn't teach you much.

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Nor will they be able to prevent me from keeping some of those firearms in my home for self defense.

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Sure. When you wake up from your dream you will realize the problems you have.

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I am a good person

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obviously not.

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good looking,

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so? are you impressed by such things?

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rich,

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Not a chance. If you were rich you would have walked away from this.

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have a beautiful family and wonderful daughter, many friends, and I have no doubt that when I finish my Phd.

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so now you are working on a phD. sure, sure.

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I will have no problem getting this conviction expunged or pardoned, as I have many friends that work for the governor, and my family is very involved in fundraising for political candidates.

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Ha ha ha ha. Where were they when you were fighting this? Huh? Left you out to dry?

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Did I mention I was rich?

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well, you said it but if you didn't walk away from what you described being declared not guilty, I am confident you are lying.

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I think you all may be so angry because you are not rich, which is a shame, and while it is great to be me, it must suck being you. Especially when it is your turn to have a bizarre and illogical legal issue thrust into your life.

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bizarre? illogical? Most criminal minds tend to work that way but all I see is a small man, both in stature and worth crying about his problems.

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All in all, besides the dreams, I have it very, very well.

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sure. I think you mean; in your dreams you have it well.

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You kids have fun getting up early in the morning to go to work

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,work? I don't work. Oh, didn't I tell you. I am not near typical retirement age and guess what; I don't work anymore. And guess what else; I'm not a felon.

I can see it now. A nice holiday break from school for the kid. She's setting on your lap, looks up to you and says, dad, what's a felon and why are all the kids at school telling me you tried to kill your doctor. You aren't going to try to kill mommy because she's s doctor, are you?

So a doctor carries when he is at his own office. That does not seem reasonable ... you may have gotten off, who knows....but we are only hearing one side of the story. Your "no contest" plea indicates that they had a strong case. And the time period for prison? That's set by the legislature, not by the DA.

I always tell people ... don't pull out your gun unless you shoot it ... a gun is not to scare people with.

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Quoting Insons Insontis

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Sure. I have never abused drugs in my life, and I have to take regular drug tests as a requirement for being prescribed the medication for my migraine disease. Not to mention, I have a wife who is a doctor, and would no doubt be divorced should I be a drug addict prone to rage and violence. Thank you for reminding me why I didn't want a jury trial.

The simple fact is that I have to take pain medication at times as this is the only way to stop the excruciating pain of the migraine. I don't think I am going to start a drug cartel with 10 pain pills. Migraines are one of the most painful experiences that a person will ever have to suffer through and I was born with them and diagnosed with an MRI/MRA scan of my brain when I was 5 years old. Do to think I began my conspiracy to deceive doctors at birth so that I could take pain medication that makes you feel like crap?

I hate taking pain medication, as it makes me ill, itchy, dumb, and unable to perform at my best. You couldn't take 1 week in my body, let alone one of my migraines, so please, go troll somewhere else. Migraines are a genetic, hereditary, neurovascular disease, and they are referred to as "suicide headaches" for a reason. Another genetic and hereditary disease that runs in my family is called degenerative disc disease, and that is the reason my c-spine resembles a set of broken tinker toys. The dislocated ECU tendon was a result of me trying to surprise my pregnant wife with a Christmas tree when she got home from work, as she was pregnant and did not feel like she could lift parts of the heavy tree we have in our attic. She made the comment that she wished we could get the tree up, but neither one of us could lift anything very heavy at that time.

I took a day off, and while she was a work I got a nylon bag and began to take the tree down one piece at a time, as I can't lift over 35 pounds without risking further injury to my back. As I was coming down the staircase, the strap on the bag, which I had wrapped both of my hands in snapped on the left side, which let all the weight jerk my right wrist in a direction it is not designed to turn. I never asked for pain medication for this injury, and did not accept the pain medication when offered. This is part of the agreement I have with my headache specialist, and I do not take pain medication prescribed by any other doctor besides him. If I were to do so, he would see it in the pharmacy records, and that could be the end of his treatment. ALL pain patients have to sign agreements such as this in order to receive narcotics to treat their pain.

My doctor actually makes an exception to this rule if there is an acute injury that has nothing to due with migraines, but I wanted him to feel comfortable that I was not taking more pain medication than needed. The arm and wrist hurt, yes, but it mainly only hurt if I was bending my wrist, and that problem was solved with an splint that stretched from my wrist to my elbow, thus I had no need for narcotic pain medication, although I will admit that I took Advil. Should I seek treatment for an addiction to Advil? I don't even take pain medication for my herniated discs, but I do a lot of physical therapy and traction splints in order to help ease the pressure on my spinal cord.

Thank you for your baseless assertions that I am a drug addict, and proving yourself as ignorant as the doctor. I can just as easily assert you are a pedophile. Get yourself some help and quit molesting children. See how easy that was?

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Hey, you're the one going to the doctor's office with a gun looking for a scrip. I know several folks who suffer with migraines without resorting to taking a gun to the doctor's office. Speaking of prescriptions, having one doesn't exempt you from having a substance abuse problem.

At the end of the day pain management does not always require drugs so do yourself a favor and get some help.

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Quoting indybail

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going to the doctor's office with a gun looking for a scrip

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In a nutshell, that's the reason ANY attorney would have recommended a plea. Whether the seeking of the pain meds was nefarious or not, you'd be asking jurors to find it perfectly innocent to bring your firearm to a doctor's visit - and not just any doctor's visit, but one intended to secure a controlled substance. We don't have professional jurors - juries are made up of your average folk (emphasis on the word AVERAGE), the majority of whom get their understanding of the law from what they see on the news and television. That means that guns + drugs = crime and that the jury would be frothing to hang you halfway through the opening statement. Why? Because normal people going about innocent business don't take guns into their doctor's offices. And the confrontation with the doctor stopped being innocent the minute you didn't simply leave after being told you weren't getting a prescription - REGARDLESS of the doctor's comments, which you chose to respond to with an escalated discourse, instead of a simple "thanks for nothing" and leaving. Juries don't like drug issues mixed with guns, or anger issues mixed with guns - because regardless of the actual circumstances, you're in a massive uphill battle to overcome how such couplings inherently appear. Juries like guns when used in a home to protect against intruders. Juries like guns when used by innocent persons engaged in innocent activities who are victimized through no action of their own. You stacked the deck against yourself here, and your attorney made the recommendation most likely to result in the lowest penalty against you. Regardless of what investigation may have uncovered about other circumstances, at the end of the day, you brought a gun to a botched drug transaction and that fact alone put your case in the attorney's "can't win, better plead" column.

Get off the internet and work on your appeal. The clock is still ticking down against you.

in defense of inson (not sure why I am doing this but...)


I know many people that carry concealed. One thing you will be told: if you carry, always carry (of course respect the limitations in your states laws). It has to do with comfort both in having the weapon on you as well as being able to be comfortable in your reactions to any given situation. If you only carry once in awhile, it really throws off your reactions to a situation. Can you imagine carrying but not all the time and being faced with a need for your weapon? Your instinct says "reach back, withdraw weapon, aim, shoot if appropriate" but when you reach for it, it's not there. Care to guess what the other guy that has a gun is thinking and will likely do in reaction?

When you carry, you must carry all the time so your reactions become nearly instinctual.

realize that insons reaction was not correct, at least in regards to the reaction to when he believed the doctor was pulling a gun. One doesn't just withdraw. One uses what they trained for and pulls their weapon to be on the ready or to stop the situation where it is. If you refuse to draw your weapon when it is proper, you might as well not bother carrying it.

end of defense.



You can defend your actions if you have an honest belief of the claim that you feared for your life. If you do what inson did and not react properly, he was then faced with drawing his weapon later and at touching distance, pointing it in a man's face (which really is a show of a lack of training again). He then had a problem defending drawing his weapon as he was not in imminent fear of his life. That and the "I got into my car and backed away until I could speed away" does not show a person truly defending themselves as the law allows but more of a "I got a gun, get out of my way" action.

His going home and claiming to disarm is s stupid statement. If he remains at home, where his weapon is, just how disarmed is he? If the cops show up, they are coming guns drawn due to the knowledge he had just aimed his weapon at a man, ran from the scene, and is now holed up in his house, admittedly with that weapon.


Basically, his story is BS. Cops do not act as he described, at least any with any decent training and I like to think most cops are afforded that.

I carry. I carry ALMOST all the time. But there are places I don't carry - even though I could, because should the presence of the firearm be detected, it's likely to cause people to get their panties in a wad, rather than be a calming presence - and those places INCLUDE doctor's offices. "Hang on doc, before you go to examine me or I take off my shirt and expose my cold blue steel, you need to know I'm armed." Perfectly legal, but still STUPID.