Mother Keeps Child when She Feels Like It During Our Visitation

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: CALIFORNIA. HELP! I AM A STEP MOM OF AN 8 YR OLD WE HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH HER MOTHER FOR 5 YEARS. SOME OF OUR ISSUES INCLUDE HER HAVING THE 8 YR OLD LIE TO US ,SHE CONTINUES TO KEEP MY STEP DAUGHTER WHEN IT IS OUR WEEKEND TO HAVE HER WE HAVE 40% CUSTODY AS OF RIGHT NOW.HER MOTHER SAYS SHE HAS HAD LICE 4 TIMES IN 1 MONTH AND THAT MY STEP DAUGHTER IS GETTING IT FROM MY 8 MNTH OLD, SHE KEEPS HER OUT OF SCHOOL WHEN SHE LIKES AND WRITES FAKE DCTRS NOTES FROM THE OFFICE SHE WORKS AT , SHE LEAVES HER AT OUR HOUSE SOMETIMES FOR DAYS EVEN WEEKS,WE HAVE MANY INCIDENT REPORTS FROM THE POLICE WHO ARE NOW TIRED OF DEALING WITH US,WE HAVE A DATED DETAIL CALENDAR WITH ALL OF THESE EVENTS WE'VE BEEN TRACKING FOR THE LAST 5 YRS, MY STEP DAUGHTER NOW HAS PROBLEMS IN SCHOOL,WITH AUTHORITY,WITH SCHOOL WORK,AND WITH OTHER KIDS HER AGE ,SHE HAS BEEN CAUGHT BEING MEAN TO MY 8 MNTH OLD, AND IS A COMPULSIVE LIAR NOW.WE WANT TO HELP HER BEFORE SHE GETS WORSE SHE IS GOING DOWN HILL SO FAST .WE DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO. WE HAVE SPOKEN TO ATTORNEYS, PARALEGALS,CPS AND WE HIT DEAD ENDS, EVERY ONE STATES THE MOTHER CAN GET AWAY WITH THIS ALL BECAUSE SHE IS NOT PHYSICALLY BEATING THE CHILD. ISNT THIS EMOTIONAL ABUSE? WHAT CAN WE DO? A GREAT ATTORNEY COST SO MUCH

UNLESS THE CUSTODY AND VISITATION ORDER NAMES YOU SPECIFICALLY, THERE IS NO "WE" IN REGARDS TO THE VISITATION OR CUSTODY.

Get off the cap lock. It's hard to read and considered rude in internet etiquette.

If the mother is acting in contrast to the actual court order, the father can go to court and seek a charge of contempt of court against the mother as well as asking the court to, again, order her to abide by the order.

If the father believes the mothers actions are damaging the child, HE can address it in court. Mental injury is as important as physical injury to a child. It is harder to prove though.

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Quoting jk

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UNLESS THE CUSTODY AND VISITATION ORDER NAMES YOU SPECIFICALLY, THERE IS NO "WE" IN REGARDS TO THE VISITATION OR CUSTODY.

Get off the cap lock. It's hard to read and considered rude in internet etiquette.

If the mother is acting in contrast to the actual court order, the father can go to court and seek a charge of contempt of court against the mother as well as asking the court to, again, order her to abide by the order.

If the father believes the mothers actions are damaging the child, HE can address it in court. Mental injury is as important as physical injury to a child. It is harder to prove though.

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Sorry about the caps I'm new to this. I am well aware there is no we on the custody papers I was just referring to my families situation ."WE" shouldnt have bothered you that much. We will b going to court together, we are a family. I am affected as well and my stepdaughter is my child as well. I'm also sorry you couldn't help me I am looking for real legal advice this is serious to us and WE really need help

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I'm also sorry you couldn't help me I am looking for real legal advice this is serious to us and WE really need help

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No need to get snippy with the volunteers. He already told you what needs to be done. If you want it in a sweet tone of voice, with handholding, clucking, and "of course you matter in this situation, dear", hire a professional and open up your checkbook.

"We" matters because if you try using "we" in court when it actually should be "he", it can backfire on you.

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Quoting semblue13

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Sorry about the caps I'm new to this. I am well aware there is no we on the custody papers I was just referring to my families situation ."WE" shouldnt have bothered you that much. We will b going to court together, we are a family. I am affected as well and my stepdaughter is my child as well. I'm also sorry you couldn't help me I am looking for real legal advice this is serious to us and WE really need help

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as the others said: WE may bring you a a lot of grief in the courtroom. I understand blended family dynamics but legally speaking, you are a legal stranger to the child you speak of. Dad is the only person that has standing to address the issues you speak of. You speaking at a hearing is going to make it look like this is what you want, not necessarily dad. Judges don't care what you want because, again, you have no legal relationship to the child. That could cause a judge to simply ignore the issues because they appear to be your issues rather than dad's.

In the end, especially since it appears the mother leaves the child with you for days and even weeks at a time, one would think you have the opportunity to have a huge influence on the child and guess what; the child is having a lot of problems.

I cannot understand the large number of incident reports to the police. We are speaking of an 8 yo child. If it involves interactions between you or dad and the mother, then you folks (all 3 of you) seem to be the bigger problem than the child. Children react to what they see and hear. If there is that much fighting, you are abusing the child as much as anybody. STOP IT.

It would appear that counseling is needed more than some directive from a court, unless that directive is for everybody to go to counseling. If the child is not in some form of counseling, I suggest finding some help. The families will likely benefit from them going to counseling as well. It is obvious you have an adversarial relationship with the mother which, sometimes, is all it takes to cause all of the problems (psychological) you describe.

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Quoting jk

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as the others said: WE may bring you a a lot of grief in the courtroom. I understand blended family dynamics but legally speaking, you are a legal stranger to the child you speak of. Dad is the only person that has standing to address the issues you speak of. You speaking at a hearing is going to make it look like this is what you want, not necessarily dad. Judges don't care what you want because, again, you have no legal relationship to the child. That could cause a judge to simply ignore the issues because they appear to be your issues rather than dad's.

In the end, especially since it appears the mother leaves the child with you for days and even weeks at a time, one would think you have the opportunity to have a huge influence on the child and guess what; the child is having a lot of problems.

I cannot understand the large number of incident reports to the police. We are speaking of an 8 yo child. If it involves interactions between you or dad and the mother, then you folks (all 3 of you) seem to be the bigger problem than the child. Children react to what they see and hear. If there is that much fighting, you are abusing the child as much as anybody. STOP IT.

It would appear that counseling is needed more than some directive from a court, unless that directive is for everybody to go to counseling. If the child is not in some form of counseling, I suggest finding some help. The families will likely benefit from them going to counseling as well. It is obvious you have an adversarial relationship with the mother which, sometimes, is all it takes to cause all of the problems (psychological) you describe.

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My intentions were not to get snippy it just seems as a stepmother my place in this all gets disregarded. I have to clean up the mess being the part time mom . Me and my husband do not fight in front of our kids. My stepdaughter has the issues in school and with her behavior when she is with her mother. The only problem we have with her at our house is the lying. She has told us numerous times she wants to live with us . The mother demeans us in front of my step daughter and it is hard to deal with . We have no contact or conversations with her mother when the child is around. Besides the drop offs and pickups that is, which is rare. I have had to clean her rashed privates, console her, and try to teach her that her mothers influence is wrong without saying that or belittling the mother. Ther is nothing personal against her mother and me at all . She has assaulted me physically before which we have reported as well. I am simply looking to for direction on where to look for a better attorney.me and my husband have been to court together before and that's why we have 40 % custody now. We need an attorney who can help us get full custody. Can anyone direct me where to look? I have took her to counseling and her mother wouldn't do her part in taking her

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Thank u I will remember this

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U most not b a stepmom. I'm on the wrong website

I both am, and have, a stepmother. Please do not make assumptions.

There is no getting around the fact that IN LAW, stepmothers do not have a LEGAL place in the custody issues regarding their stepchildren, and they can hurt their husband's chances when they start inserting themselves into the procedings. We get the concept of family and we get that you care about the kids. But when it comes to LEGAL actions, those of us in the Step category need to butt out.

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it just seems as a stepmother my place in this all gets disregarded.

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That's because. legally speaking, you have no place in all this, and if you overstep your bounds in court, you're going to make it worse for your husband and step-daughter.

We're not here to offer step-parent support, we're here to explain the law. The law, whether you like it or not, says that you're legally nobody in this situation.

That doesn't mean that your step-daughter thinks that you're not important, it just means that the court doesn't want to hear from you. The court wants to hear from DAD.

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We need an attorney who can help us get full custody. Can anyone direct me where to look?

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Call your local Bar Association for a referral.

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Quoting cbg

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I both am, and have, a stepmother. Please do not make assumptions.

There is no getting around the fact that IN LAW, stepmothers do not have a LEGAL place in the custody issues regarding their stepchildren, and they can hurt their husband's chances when they start inserting themselves into the procedings. We get the concept of family and we get that you care about the kids. But when it comes to LEGAL actions, those of us in the Step category need to butt out.

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So I get the job of cleaning up the mess but I can't help fix the problem . This is amazing. If I really did butt out I feel my stepdaughter will fail as an adult . I will keep trying for her until the end. Hopefully it will payoff. I love her and she is my concern.

And we GET that, we really do.

I'm also a stepparent. But frankly, Dad needs to act. Because there is, quite literally, nothing you can do legally as a stepparent.

Not in court, she isn't your concern. Be as supportive all you like outside of court, but in court LEAVE IT TO DAD or you can make things worse.

wow, where it started out with a reasonable explanation of her feelings and what seemed like she understands why she is being told what she is, it quickly degrades to:

"I'm on the wrong website".



are you having hormonal problem semblue?

Not a serious question but really, flip flopping such as that really suggest you might be a larger part of the problem than you admit or realize.

Seriously, you have said so many things that it is difficult to address all of them adequately without writing a novel. If you wish to stick around, the posters here do have considerable knowledge concerning what you seek. If you don't, well, best of luck for the girl. It does appear there are some real problems that do need to be addressed. Hopefully she will get the help she needs to be able to cope with a warring bunch of adults.

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My intentions were not to get snippy it just seems as a stepmother my place in this all gets disregarded

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.that is because although you are involved in the overall dynamics of the situation, legally, you have no standing to be in court concerning this.

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I have to clean up the mess being the part time mom

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. sorry you feel that way. A mom is never part time in my opinion. Whether the child is with you or not, you exist in the same capacity and relationship with the child. Maybe that is part of your problem: you are jealous because you are only a "part time mom".

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Me and my husband do not fight in front of our kids.

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Are the walls in your house soundproof? Do you give each other "looks"? Your communication with your husband changes,. Kids pick up on that. They aren't dumb.

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My stepdaughter has the issues in school and with her behavior when she is with her mother.

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but that does not mean school or the mother is the problem. That is merely where it manifests as a display. Have you ever noticed that in some religions, the kids are very restrained from any activity? Ever notice what happens when they get away from their parents? I guess that means the problem is that the child is allowed to be away from their parents at all since that is when the problem is able activity is seen. Obviously that is not true just as your argument that since the child acts up when at school or with mom that that is proof of those places being the problem. It goes much deeper than that.

but really, you are telling her mom's influence is wrong. How do you expect her to react and act around her mother? You are telling her mom is bad. She seems to be accepting your word on it.

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The only problem we have with her at our house is the lying. She has told us numerous times she wants to live with us .

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let's see: she acts up at her mothers house but not at yours. She wants to live with you. Maybe she is acting up at moms house so mom won't want her there. Ever think of that? Still, it doesn't mean mom is necessarily doing anything wrong. Kids attempt to manipulate adults in many ways.

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The mother demeans us in front of my step daughter and it is hard to deal with

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.that one I agree with you.

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We have no contact or conversations with her mother when the child is around

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so the child realizes there is a problem in that relationship
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I have had to clean her rashed privates,

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c

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and try to teach her that her mothers influence is wrong without saying that or belittling the mother.

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mom's influence is wrong? How about just telling her the mother is the devil incarnate? Mom;s influence is NOT wrong. She may be teaching the child things that are wrong but her influence is not wrong.

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Ther is nothing personal against her mother and me at all

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.You just said there was, multiple times.

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She has assaulted me physically before which we have reported as well.

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and that isn't personal?

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.me and my husband have been to court together before and that's why we have 40 % custody now

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.dang lady, if I could prove mom is as bad as you are claiming, (and I was the father) I would have 100% custody with mom having, at most, supervised visits.

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I have took her to counseling and her mother wouldn't do her part in taking her

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have YOU been to counseling? Has dad been to counseling? If not, you did not do your part. You need to learn how to deal with and even control these situation. You need to learn how to relate to your step-daughter in a way that actually supports the mother rather than degrading her. This is HER daughter you are attempting to alienate from her.
and yes, that is what I see. Teaching a child to not listen to mom because her influence is bad is alienating the child.

and I just realized: we have took[sic] her to counseling. That should be: we are taking her to counseling. Given the problems, she needs to have counseling right now.

Actually you hit on a very important point there, JK.

Teaching a child that Mom is bad/child shouldn't listen to Mom/Mom is a bad influence can actually cause the parent to LOSE parenting time and/or custody.

If it's a stepparent doing it? That's even worse. We, as stepparents, have absolutely NO business doing anything of the sort. The more I'm reading, the more I'm seeing that Mom is not the only problem here.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Actually you hit on a very important point there, JK.
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You mean you read that entire diatribe? I'm honored.

I read most, if not all of your posts, JK - at least the ones in family law :)

In fact, I love reading a lot of your posts elsewhere too, because you tend to have this almost unearthly patience with ..well, I could say "idiots", but that's a little harsh. Let's just say, "the more argumentative posters".

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Quoting Dogmatique

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I read most, if not all of your posts, JK - at least the ones in family law :)

In fact, I love reading a lot of your posts elsewhere too, because you tend to have this almost unearthly patience with ..well, I could say "idiots", but that's a little harsh. Let's just say, "the more argumentative posters".

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Another poster has said a similar thing in a PM. I respect him but doubted the statement. Thank you.

I have to copy this and hand it out to my family though. They will never believe it.

LOL and I'm deadly serious, too - sometimes I'll read your posts on a gazillion-page thread and sit here wondering how the heck you do it. :D

/apologies for the hijack, OP.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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I'll read your posts on a gazillion-page thread and sit here wondering how the heck you do it. :D

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Cause jk either has the patience of Job, or the liquor of Ireland. Or both.

are you having hormonal problem semblue?No hormonal problems just an upset parent.








. sorry you feel that way. A mom is never part time in my opinion. Whether the child is with you or not, you exist in the same capacity and relationship with the child. Maybe that is part of your problem: you are jealous because you are only a "part time mom".This is your opinion and thats perfectly fine. In no way am i jealous or ever will be. I came on this sight not for opinions or to be judged I just needed direction.

Are the walls in your house soundproof? Do you give each other "looks"? Your communication with your husband changes,. Kids pick up on that. They aren't dumb.My walls are not soundproof we simply just dont have things to fight about. We have a very happy home my children are very protected here and when me and my spouse do have disaghreements we dotn yell we talk them out so we do not need soundproof walls.And talking out disagreements that are suitable in front of the children is very healthy for them to see.

but that does not mean school or the mother is the problem. That is merely where it manifests as a display. Have you ever noticed that in some religions, the kids are very restrained from any activity? Ever notice what happens when they get away from their parents? I guess that means the problem is that the child is allowed to be away from their parents at all since that is when the problem is able activity is seen. Obviously that is not true just as your argument that since the child acts up when at school or with mom that that is proof of those places being the problem. It goes much deeper than that.I did not intend to make it appear the school was the problem. We have a good relationship with my stepdaughters teachers and they have even come to the conclusion that they know whose house my stepdaughter is at due her behavior.We simply do not let her get away with misbehaving and my stepdaughter is aware of that. We believe this is why she doesnt act out when with us.

but really, you are telling her mom's influence is wrong. How do you expect her to react and act around her mother? You are telling her mom is bad. She seems to be accepting your word on it.Sorry but re-read my post. I do not tell my stepdaughter that her mother is wrong .EVER. i do have to teach her that the lying, stealing, and the bullying, that is acceptable at her mothers is not acceptable at all, At our house or anywhere else.I to have to teach her that poor hygiene, which is acceptable at her moms, is not the right way to be. I never tell her that this is due to her mother .My stepdaughter is old enough to know that her actions and hyigene are her responsiblity.But it is up to an adult to instill these positive, not negative behaviors.

[COLOR=#333333] let's see: she acts up at her mothers house but not at yours. She wants to live with you. Maybe she is acting up at moms house so mom won't want her there. Ever think of that? I do think that might be the reason she acts out over there. But the problem goes back to trying to take a child away from a mother is hard
.that one I agree with you.


c mom's influence is wrong? How about just telling her the mother is the devil incarnate? Mom;s influence is NOT wrong. She may be teaching the child things that are wrong but her influence is not wrong.On this note: The mother is terribly wrong and neglectful I just cant express that to my stepdaughter becuase it is not right. I am very aware of the damage it will do if I bash her mom to her. I do not do that at all and niether does her father.



and that isn't personal?It is to her . I dont know what her reasoning for this is but I dont take it personal. I know the woman has issues and is an alcoholic. I have done nnothing to her to make her not like me. Shes mentally unstable.

.dang lady, if I could prove mom is as bad as you are claiming, (and I was the father) I would have 100% custody with mom having, at most, supervised visits.This is ultimately what were trying to do. Thats why I am on this sight so someone can direct us where to find a good attorney. My husband is not computer savvy at all so I help him with this.

have YOU been to counseling? Has dad been to counseling? If not, you did not do your part. You need to learn how to deal with and even control these situation.Maybe i didnt correctly note this but we:me, my step daughter ,and her father have been and go to counseling sessions.The mother refuses to take her on her time though. You need to learn how to relate to your step-daughter in a way that actually supports the mother rather than degrading her. This is HER daughter you are attempting to alienate from her.
and yes, that is what I see.I will not support a bad situation and once again I do not degrade her mother to her at all. Teaching a child to not listen to mom because her influence is bad is alienating the child.I never tell her not to listen to her mother I simply try to teach her what is right and wrong, never bringing up her mom to her.

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Quoting aardvarc

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Cause jk either has the patience of Job, or the liquor of Ireland. Or both.

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Which is why we lurves him :D

semblue, seriously, while there may be problems you have not disclosed here, what you have disclosed does not scream "mom is bad". It is extremely difficult to not show a subjective opinion of a person you have admittedly been at odds for 5 years. It is just beyond typical human nature not too. Because of that, I temper what you say a bit. When you do that, I just do not see a problem like you are attempting to relate.

You have apparently called the police so often they do not want to respond anymore. The fact they have been called is a problem in my book. While they do have a place, a child watching the cops show up all the time tends to do something to their little minds.

You have reported her to CPS and they do not see what you are seeing.

Honestly, if you have not been able to show mom is a danger, is whacko, is a threat to the child in 5 years, I think you are seeing something that isn't there.

I have to ask: if mom is so bad, why does she still have a job, at a doctor's office no less? A doctor generally cannot afford to have mentally unstable people working for them. It is bad publicity and can cause myriad problems.

You said this:

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The mother is terribly wrong and neglectful

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yet apparently nobody else sees this

you say this:

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.I to have to teach her that poor hygiene, which is acceptable at her moms,.

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yet she hold a job where it is basically a requisite to have decent hygiene standards and again, nobody has seen what you are arguing is a problem. Maybe you are a bit OCD when it comes to hygiene. If you really read about health, you will find that we, (Americans) really do wash too much. It is unhealthy to constantly remove the horny layer of the dermis especially by regularly using a "scrub" to do it. It is intended to help protect the underlying new skin cells. We are meant to have a horny layer. Washing your hair constantly? why? It is for cosmetic (appearance) purposes more than it being "unclean".

Sure, there are some parts of a persons hygiene regimen that are needed but in reality, we are a country that takes that to excess.

but since you want to claim you are so overly hygienic; do you have a bidet? If not, you fail in that area. A bidet provides for a much more hygienic cleansing that what we typically do. If you are going to argue hygiene, its best you live up to your claims lest somebody that uses a bidet regularly will think you are lacking in your hygiene care.

Don't think mom is a grubby pig just because she does not practice the same standards as you. One place CPS is almost always critical on is the cleanliness of children. If they haven't found a problem in that area, I suggest you are expecting more than is needed.

but hey, I think anything I say is falling on deaf ears so I'll stop. Make sure you have the child's interests at heart and not yours or the fathers. That is what really matters.

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Quoting semblue13

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SHE CONTINUES TO KEEP MY STEP DAUGHTER WHEN IT IS OUR WEEKEND TO HAVE HER

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Has the child's father reported this to the court or to the police? Even i fthe police will not act, he needs to bring her non-compliance to the attention of the court. If he chooses to do nothing, than nothing is precisely what will happen.

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HER MOTHER SAYS SHE HAS HAD LICE 4 TIMES IN 1 MONTH AND THAT MY STEP DAUGHTER IS GETTING IT FROM MY 8 MNTH OLD, SHE KEEPS HER OUT OF SCHOOL WHEN SHE LIKES AND WRITES FAKE DCTRS NOTES FROM THE OFFICE SHE WORKS AT , SHE LEAVES HER AT OUR HOUSE SOMETIMES FOR DAYS EVEN WEEKS,WE HAVE MANY INCIDENT REPORTS FROM THE POLICE WHO ARE NOW TIRED OF DEALING WITH US,WE HAVE A DATED DETAIL CALENDAR WITH ALL OF THESE EVENTS WE'VE BEEN TRACKING FOR THE LAST 5 YRS, MY STEP DAUGHTER NOW HAS PROBLEMS IN SCHOOL,WITH AUTHORITY,WITH SCHOOL WORK,AND WITH OTHER KIDS HER AGE ,SHE HAS BEEN CAUGHT BEING MEAN TO MY 8 MNTH OLD, AND IS A COMPULSIVE LIAR NOW.WE WANT TO HELP HER BEFORE SHE GETS WORSE SHE IS GOING DOWN HILL SO FAST .WE DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO. WE HAVE SPOKEN TO ATTORNEYS, PARALEGALS,CPS AND WE HIT DEAD ENDS, EVERY ONE STATES THE MOTHER CAN GET AWAY WITH THIS ALL BECAUSE SHE IS NOT PHYSICALLY BEATING THE CHILD. ISNT THIS EMOTIONAL ABUSE? WHAT CAN WE DO? A GREAT ATTORNEY COST SO MUCH

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If you have spoken to "attorneys, paralegal, [and] CPS" and the police are "tired of dealing" with you, then there is not much more to be done. Clearly, there is insufficient PROOF that something unlawful is happening to the child or that mom is acting in such an egregious manner that the authorities feel compelled to act.

Dad might have to consider bring up his "proof" to the court. However, if his proof can have alternative explanations, or can be pointed back at you and dad, then it may be dead in the water there, too.

Ultimately, dad's remedy is with the court and the custody and visitation order. He can either try and do it himself, or, he can hire an attorney to try and help him frame the issue in a proper fashion to the court.