Excessive Bail Charged, in Violation of the 8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
My question involves police conduct in the State of: California
I was arrested and my bail was set at $50,000. I paid $5,000 to a bail bondsman to post my $50,000 bond and was released. I appeared for my arraignment and was given a letter by the District Attorney's office that they would not be filing charges.
Approximately three days later, the District Attorney's Office changed its mind and decided to go ahead and file charges. I was arrested again and my bail was set at $35,000. I paid $3,500 to a bail bondsman to post the $35,000 bond and I was released. The criminal case has since been settled for misdemeanor animal cruelty with a 3 year probation.
However, in the end, I ended up being forced to post a total of $85,000 in bonds for a case that only had a $35,000 bond requirement when it was filed by the DA. Even though I had already posted a $50,000 bond for my release when I was first arrested, I was arrested again for a second time and was required to post a $35,000 bond yet again for the same case. That amounts to a total of $85,000 in required bonds for a case with only a $35,000 bond requirement.
Since I had already posted a $50,000 bond from the first time I was arrested, there was no need for a second arrest and an additional bond requirement of $35,000. A $50,000 bond was already posted for my release. Therefore, a second arrest with an additional bond requirement of $35,000 was unnecessary.
I have been told that this is a violation of the 8th amendment to the US Constitution and would be a 1983 federal action for damages from the excessive bail that was required and from the extra day spent in jail from the unnecessary second arrest. Is this correct?
Re: Excessive Bail Charged, in Violation of the 8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitutio
First and foremost, nothing you have posted indicates that $50,000, $35,000 or $85,000 would be excessive.
Second, it sounds like the original case was dismissed, and odds are the bail from that original case was refunded to the bondsman.
Third, you were able to quickly post bail, undermining the argument that the amount was unreasonably high.
Fourth, despite having many opportunities to do so, the U.S. Supreme Court has never explicitly incorporated the Eighth Amendment's provision pertaining to bail to the states, with only dicta (statements not part of the court's holding, and thus not of precedential value) supporting that position, so your only recourse is through (a) state law, (b) the state constitution, or (c) battling the issue up to the U.S. Supreme Court and convincing them to revisit the issue and clarify their position.
The rest depends on the details, so if you're serious about pursuing this you'll need to discuss them with a civil rights lawyer.
Re: Excessive Bail Charged, in Violation of the 8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitutio
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Quoting
Mr. Knowitall
First and foremost, nothing you have posted indicates that $50,000, $35,000 or $85,000 would be excessive.
Second, it sounds like the original case was dismissed, and odds are the bail from that original case was refunded to the bondsman. It's unlikely that he sat around for three years without making any effort to get his money back.
Third, you were able to quickly post bail, undermining the argument that the amount was unreasonably high.
Fourth, despite having many opportunities to do so, the U.S. Supreme Court has never explicitly incorporated the Eighth Amendment's provision pertaining to bail to the states, with only dicta (statements not part of the court's holding, and thus not of precedential value) supporting that position, so your only recourse is through (a) state law, (b) the state constitution, or (c) battling the issue up to the U.S. Supreme Court and convincing them to revisit the issue and clarify their position.
The rest depends on the details, so if you're serious about pursuing this you'll need to discuss them with a civil rights lawyer.
The original $50,000 bond wasn't released until after my second arrest according to documentary evidence I have from the bond company. This means that the original $50,000 bond was still a good bond at the time of my second arrest, which means that I was arrested for a second time even though there was a good $50,000 bond that was already in place for my release. This means that there was no need for a second arrest with an additional $35,000 bond required, since there was already a good $50,000 bond in place for my release that satisfied the $35,000 bond requirement. This means that excessive bail was charged since I ended up posting a total of $85,000 in bonds (consisting of a $50,000 bond from the first arrest and a $35,000 bond from the second arrest) for a case where the bond requirement was only $35,000 when the DA filed its charges.
I never claimed the bail was unreasonably high. I have no idea where you got that impression. I am simply claiming that I was forced to post $85,000 in bonds for a case that only had a $35,000 bond requirement. That is a $50,000 unnecessary excess. I also stayed an extra day in jail for an unecessary second arrest.
The Supreme Court not clarifying its position I have no idea about.
You say I should dicsuss the matter with a civil rights lawyer. Are you not a civil rights lawyer? I thought this was the police misconduct category where civil rights/police misconduct attorneys are?
Re: Excessive Bail Charged, in Violation of the 8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitutio
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Quoting
KevinBadiei
The original $50,000 bond wasn't released until after my second arrest according to documentary evidence I have from the bond company. This means that the original $50,000 bond was still a good bond at the time of my second arrest, which means that I was arrested for a second time even though there was a good $50,000 bond that was already in place for my release.
Not in and of itself. You can ask your bondsman to explain his timing in seeking the return of your prior bond. You have not indicated here that the new arrest was on the old case, or any other relevant procedural details.
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Quoting KevinBadiei
I never claimed the bail was unreasonably high. I have no idea where you got that impression.
You are claiming an Eight Amendment violation. The Eight Amendment provides "Excessive bail shall not be required..." Do you understand the meaning of the word "excessive"?
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Quoting KevinBadiei
You say I should dicsuss the matter with a civil rights lawyer. Are you not a civil rights lawyer? I thought this was the police misconduct category where civil rights/police misconduct attorneys are?
When you post in a forum, the people who answer your questions (whatever they do in their day jobs) are simply people on a forum answering your questions. No lawyer with half a brain is going to form an attorney-client relationship, then attempt to analyze your case and advise you based upon some snippets of fact you post in a forum. If you want to consult a lawyer, go consult lawyer.
Re: Excessive Bail Charged, in Violation of the 8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitutio
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Quoting
Mr. Knowitall
You are claiming an Eight Amendment violation. The Eight Amendment provides "Excessive bail shall not be required..." Do you understand the meaning of the word "excessive"?
Excessive means "in excess." $85,000 in bonds exceeds a $35,000 bond requirement. If a bond requirement is $35,000, being required to post $85,000, as I was required to do, is excessive. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Quoting
Mr. Knowitall
Not in and of itself. You can ask your bondsman to explain his timing in seeking the return of your prior bond. You have not indicated here that the new arrest was on the old case, or any other relevant procedural details.
You mentioned in an earlier post that the bondsman would not wait 3 years. I never said it took 3 years for anything. My original post says "3 days", not 3 years.
I specifically stated that the second arrest occurred because the DA changed its mind and decided to go ahead and file charges on the same case. Now you are claiming that I "have not indicated here that the new arrest was on the old case" when I did indicate exactly that.
Re: Excessive Bail Charged, in Violation of the 8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitutio
Okay, you just want to argue.... Enjoy arguing with somebody else.
Re: Excessive Bail Charged, in Violation of the 8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitutio
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KevinBadiei;621147]I was under the impression that attorneys would be answering questions on this forum.
read the TOS
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There is another site called Lawguru.com where attorneys answer basic legal questions.
and you get some pretty generalized answers there. Even there the laywers are not going to establish a lawyer/client relationship.
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This site is called "Expertlaw forums" after all, and only has an entire forums with like 100 different categories of law where people can post questions under the area of law their question falls under. This gave me the impression that this site was similar to Lawguru.com, with attorneys posting replies to people's questions. However, now I am told that you are not an attorney, and that attorneys would not answer questions on these forums. Therefore, it appears that the "Expertlaw forums" does not have any experts in law that are answering any questions.
the forums are not the only resource available on this site.
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Mr. Knowitall appears to have misunderstood a large part of my question for some reason. Getting somewhat insulting replies such as "do you know what "excessive" means?" or "you just want to argue, go argue with someone else" is really unnecessary, and that's why I responded the way I did.
ok, let's play.
what is your basis for determining you had to pay an excessive amount of bail? regardless of whether the judge ordered $35 or $35k bail on the second arrest, that does not mean that $50k or $85k would be excessive. It just means that he felt $35k was adequate for the situation.
did the judge know there was already (or still) a $50k bond in place? If not and you failed to ask the court to continue that bond, there is nobody to blame but yourself. If I was standing in front of the judge and he said there is now a $35k bond required, I would have said, "WHAT? I already have a $50k bond in place for the first arrest concerning this issue. Since this is not a new crime, can that bond be continued to cover this bond requirement?" Did you ask the judge something similar?
Re: Excessive Bail Charged, in Violation of the 8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitutio
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Quoting
Mr. Knowitall
Second, it sounds like the original case was dismissed, and odds are the bail from that original case was refunded to the bondsman.
It still sounds like this is the case, but Kevin does not appear interested in helping us out by clarifying the facts.
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jk
did the judge know there was already (or still) a $50k bond in place? If not and you failed to ask the court to continue that bond, there is nobody to blame but yourself. If I was standing in front of the judge and he said there is now a $35k bond required, I would have said, "WHAT? I already have a $50k bond in place for the first arrest concerning this issue. Since this is not a new crime, can that bond be continued to cover this bond requirement?" Did you ask the judge something similar?
I'm in a heavy-handed mood at the moment. Kevin had his opportunity to clarify things and chose to behave badly, so he can go to one of the forums he believes to be better than this one and ask his questions there.