What Happens if You Refuse to Attend Substance Abuse Counseling
My question involves criminal law for the state of: Michigan
So in February of this year, I was busted for smoking weed and I was sentenced earlier this month. Anyway, I got the resulting "punishment": 12-months probation, 30 hours of community service and substance abuse counseling. The year of probation is no big deal as it was a rare occasion that I smoked marijuana, the only difference is that I pay an extra 50 dollars a month. Same goes for the 30 hours of community service, I'm just out of my first year of college so I was able to get those done in less than two weeks due to not being employed currently and looking for a job. However, this substance abuse counseling is beginning to be a problem.
I'm required to attend a substance abuse counseling program, when I was sentenced and filling paperwork, the clerk made it seem as though the courses that my university is going to make me take will be substantial. That's not the case. I went to one of the "counseling clinics" and was told the basic pricing of the program, which is as follows: $140 for the initial assessment (I paid for that just to get the prices and in their system...), $40 dollars for a group meeting, and $95 dollars for an individual session. The lady I spoke with at the clinic stated that I'm required by them to attend 8 group meetings and then weekly individual meetings afterward until my probation officer is "happy"... So I decided to email my probation officer, and she stated that I'm required to have the clinic send monthly reports to her in regard to my progress at the clinic. This is going to cost upwards of 3000 dollars, which makes me very, very discontent.
Honestly, I do not see the point in taking these courses, as I have only smoked marijuana three times in my life, I just happened to get caught. What exactly should I say to my probation officer in regard to these courses? I feel powerless as my officer seems blunt for lack of a better term.
In addition to the ridiculous fees and whatnot, I'm required to get "fingerprinted" at the university police department. However, I was never arrested as the letter for my fingerprinting stated. So, I decided to email my probation officer yet again, this time pertaining to fingerprinting. She said that it's required to receive 7411. I read through 7411, and I do not recall it ever saying anything about fingerprinting.
So, what exactly should I do when it comes to these courses and the fingerprinting? I'm a college student paying my way through school, I can't afford this and would like to get it out of the way.
Sorry for posting such a long topic post, I'm too much of a detail-oriented person, I guess....:wallbang:
Re: What Happens if You Refuse to Attend Substance Abuse Counseling
If you want to violate your probation and end up with a conviction, you're definitely on the right track.
You chose to commit a crime. You are getting a big break that you seem intent on blowing. Don't blow it.
Re: What Happens if You Refuse to Attend Substance Abuse Counseling
You seem to have some pretty incredible misconceptions. For starters, yes, you were arrested. If you hadn't been arrested, you would not have had to go to court. Continuing that thought, you were also convicted of a crime. If you hadn't been convicted, you wouldn't have been given a sentence and "punishment."...I really don't know why you put "punishment" in quotation marks as that is exactly what your sentence is! It is a penalty for having been convicted of committing a crime. Now, it sounds like you got a deferred prosecution. So, that conviction can go away...AFTER you successfully complete all the conditions of your probation. If you DON'T successfully complete ALL the conditions of your probation, not only does the conviction stand but you are also going to get slammed with the sentence you would have received without the deferred prosecution. Meaning that whatever portion of the conditions you have already completed (community service, part of your counseling, etc.) counts for nothing and you get sentenced with a hefty fine and/or jail.
Now, keeping in mind that your sentence is intended to be punishment, it is not supposed to be painless. Yes, it is going to cost you time...that part you feel you can take in stride. And, yes, it is going to cost you money. Your choice...pay for and attend counseling or pay fines and attend jail (and live with the conviction record never going away and being disclosed to every employer you ever want to get a job with).
As for the fingerprinting...are you still high? Getting fingerprinted costs you nothing (ok, maybe a small processing fee). The only reason you have for balking at doing it is because you are feeling you are being unjustly punished. Well, you're not. You chose to smoke weed, knowing it was illegal, and took your chances anyway. You knowingly and willingly took a gamble and lost. Suck it up.
As a final little note, I somehow suspect that you're probation has a few more little conditions than just "don't get high for a year." There is probably some fine print in there about ANY unlawful behavior, maybe something about alcohol consumption, etc. If you screw up on day 364 of your 1 year probation...well, you get the idea.
Re: What Happens if You Refuse to Attend Substance Abuse Counseling
The reference to "7411" is to deferred sentencing under MCL 333.7411. To qualify an individual is found guilty, but no judgment of guilt is entered if the person successfully completes probation. Discharge and dismissal upon successful completion of the deferral is, for most purposes, not a conviction.
Re: What Happens if You Refuse to Attend Substance Abuse Counseling
Which makes it imperative that the defendant complete his probation and ALL conditions ordered with it. Failure to comply results in a violation. At that time, probation can be revoked. If your county has the resources, there may be a substance abuse program within the county jail. I have seen plenty of offenders resetenced to 180 days in the jail's substance abuse program because they refused to comply with the court order.
So...you might want to rethink your position. Once your probation is revoked, your deferred sentence become a coviction.
Re: What Happens if You Refuse to Attend Substance Abuse Counseling
So far, I've done everything they've asked me to do. I'm just kind of pissed off because of all the fees that this is entailing, especially when my school is already taking care of drug classes that I'm sure will teach me the same thing. It seems to me that the courts don't have the intent of helping stupid teenagers, but instead breaking their banks so that they have to take student loans and be in debt to the feds... Thank god I'm on a scholarship for the most part and don't have to take any bullshit loans. I'm not saying that I'm not going to resist this so-called treatment, I just feel that I have better things to spend my money on such as a car so I can get to school next year and further my education.
Also, may I ask why this plant is illegal?
Re: What Happens if You Refuse to Attend Substance Abuse Counseling
Here we go... You can't be the victim if you knowingly and willingly engage in an illegal act. The court orders a substance abuse program for treatment of an issue that you brought to the table. The state has guidelines as to who facilitates such a program. What class is the school taking care of? Who referred you to the program? Why did they refer you? Who facilitates the program? What curriculum does it use?
Lastly, quit commenting on how the court seems intent on breaking college students banks. There is no correlation between the court ordering you for treatment of an issue that you presented and student loans. BTW, marijuana use and a convition for it, could affect you scholarship couldn't it?
Re: What Happens if You Refuse to Attend Substance Abuse Counseling
Quote:
Quoting
greenghoul
Also, may I ask why this plant is illegal?
From a legal standpoint? Because that's what the law says.
For a philosophical perspective, other forums (debate the issues here, or a NORML-type group elsewhere) are more suitable for the discussion.
Re: What Happens if You Refuse to Attend Substance Abuse Counseling
Quote:
Quoting
viol8te
Here we go... You can't be the victim if you knowingly and willingly engage in an illegal act. The court orders a substance abuse program for treatment of an issue that you brought to the table. The state has guidelines as to who facilitates such a program. What class is the school taking care of? Who referred you to the program? Why did they refer you? Who facilitates the program? What curriculum does it use?
Lastly, quit commenting on how the court seems intent on breaking college students banks. There is no correlation between the court ordering you for treatment of an issue that you presented and student loans. BTW, marijuana use and a convition for it, could affect you scholarship couldn't it?
The school is taking care of two classes, one being a civilities class the other being a drug/alcohol class. The former being a class that is about how our actions as an individual affect others. The latter being a class that teaches the negative effects of drug and alcohol use, and how to avoid becoming attached or ever using in the first place. The Dean of Students referred me to the programs because this is the normal action that the school takes for such cases. When I went to the civilities class, there were two teachers and the dean overseeing it. One was had a masters in sociology, the other had a masters but I can't think of their field.
You're wrong on the correlation. If a student has money saved for college, but they have to pay an arm and a leg for something the court ordered them to do, the likeliness of them having to take loans for college increases as they have less money to spend on said enrollment in college.
I spoke with the Dean about my scholarships, she said that something "as insignificant as getting busted for smoking won't alter my scholarship status", so I'm all set in that manner.
Also, I would like to add that the topic title was changed. I never had the intention to "refuse to attend counseling", it's more of "I truly do not see the point, what should I discuss with my probation officer in regard to this counseling". Whoever changed the title should learn how to read through my first post correctly.
Re: What Happens if You Refuse to Attend Substance Abuse Counseling
I's not a school matter with regard to the criminal aspect of you getting caght with the substance. The main reason that the probation officer won't/can't accept the school's programs. 1. That's not what the court ordered. 2. The reason that the court sends you to outside agencies for the treatment is because they have to taught by someone with that particilar background. One would need to be a CADC in order to provide state certified services. Any treatment from someone without it is deemed insufficient.
The correlation is still flawed. Your sentence is one that any individual, student or not, would have received as a result of a finding of guilt for this. The state did not bend you over, you did. Now you pay the price that anyone with this sentence would have to pay.
I agree with you Dean as well. However, a permanent conviction for failure to comply, coupled with the jail time might.
BTW, I didn't comment on the header to your thread because I know that it sometimes can get altered. But, your attitude shows that it's not far from the truth. You need to suck it up and do the court ordered programs. That would really be in your best interest.