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Holding a Cell Phone While Driving

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  • 03-16-2012, 04:35 PM
    borntodeal
    Holding a Cell Phone While Driving
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    Does holding a cell phone to check the time constitute "use" in California?

    If no call is being made?

    Is there any law against holding/drinking a cup of coffee or food?
  • 03-17-2012, 11:21 AM
    lurkertom
    Re: Holding a Cell Phone While Driving
    Yes

    Yes

    No

    None of the above are a good idea.
  • 03-17-2012, 11:41 AM
    cdwjava
    Re: Holding a Cell Phone While Driving
    Quote:

    Quoting borntodeal
    View Post
    Does holding a cell phone to check the time constitute "use" in California?

    If no call is being made?

    It certainly gives the officer reasonable suspicion to detain (stop) you, and is likely sufficient to support his citation. Face it, holding your cell phone to check the time is not a common occurrence and it may well be difficult to convince a court that this was indeed the case ... if the officer thought about it, he'd have noted whether or not there was a clock in your dashboard or on the face of your radio like most cars.

    But, the officer will testify that he saw you talking on the phone, you will testify that you were looking at the time. The judge or commissioner will decide whether there is sufficient cause to find you guilty or not.

    Quote:

    Is there any law against holding/drinking a cup of coffee or food?
    Specifically? No.
  • 03-17-2012, 01:02 PM
    borntodeal
    Re: Holding a Cell Phone While Driving
    You said "Face it, holding your cell phone to check the time is not a common occurrence..." and I am wondering where you culled this fact since I only use my phone for the time and so does my roommate and numerous other people I know don't wear watches. Since I wasn't making a call, you also suggested the officer would perjury himself, is that also a common occurrence? I have a headset, even though I wasn't on a call, I had one, so is holding and using a headset also against the law?

    What about taking a picture of yourself in the car while driving, many of my friends and I do that too.
  • 03-17-2012, 02:24 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Holding a Cell Phone While Driving
    Quote:

    Quoting borntodeal
    View Post
    You said "Face it, holding your cell phone to check the time is not a common occurrence..." and I am wondering where you culled this fact since I only use my phone for the time and so does my roommate and numerous other people I know don't wear watches.

    Then you and your friends may well be in the minority.

    Do your vehicles also lack clocks in the dash or in the radio/CD/stereo system? Doubtful.

    For the most part, people do not regularly use their phone to check the time. Like I said, you can make that claim to the judge or commissioner and he/she can decide whether the officer's observations are sufficient to support a guilty verdict.

    Quote:

    What about taking a picture of yourself in the car while driving, many of my friends and I do that too.
    Stupid and unsafe even if not directly unlawful.
  • 03-17-2012, 02:33 PM
    borntodeal
    Re: Holding a Cell Phone While Driving
    I am surprised that you continue to make comments that are fully unsubstantiated. Where do you get these statistics? I, myself, would not make that comment without some actual data, surveys, stats. IMO any person who presumes to know something without data makes himself look like a foolish person. What is fascinating to me is the Captain of the traffic division here took a meeting with me about a community matter and admitted to permitting his own officers to use cell phones, without head sets, while driving. Do officers have some special skills that the rest of us don't have that makes them a safer cell-phone driver-user lol?

    PS: May I have your badge number? I'd like to make a request for your arrest records, I'm curious what they look like. The request is being made because you're speaking to me as an identified California Law Enforcement officer and this request is made under the Government Code §§ 6250-6276.48 California Public Records Act. Please comply. Thank you.
  • 03-17-2012, 02:39 PM
    lurkertom
    Re: Holding a Cell Phone While Driving
    Oh I see now...you came here to argue.

    Holding a cell phone while driving can be considered as "Using" by a LEO therefore a ticketable offense. Holding a headset or wearing a headset? If you were wearing a headset and looking at the phone while you were driving it would appear to whomever observed you that you were USING a cell phone.
  • 03-17-2012, 02:42 PM
    borntodeal
    Re: Holding a Cell Phone While Driving
    Oh I see now, you came here to be a jackass...lol

    If you have actual case law to support what you are saying, feel free to post it. Otherwise you look like a "guesser" that's someone who acts like he knows what he's talking about and doesn't really know anything. If you have some actual case law defining the term "using" in re the statute, then I'm interested. Otherwise, your blowing hot air.
  • 03-17-2012, 02:42 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Holding a Cell Phone While Driving
    Quote:

    Quoting borntodeal
    View Post
    I am surprised that you continue to make comments that are fully unsubstantiated. Where do you get these statistics?

    I never stated it was a statistic, merely an observation. And the judge is just as likely to find it odd that you might be looking at a cell phone to check the time when most people that he or she probably knows likely do not do that, either. And, since every car I know has a clock in it, that will further render the claim rather incredulous.

    The judge or commissioner will render a decision based upon testimony. If he or she believes that the officer did not make the case that you were using the phone for a call, then he or she will likely find you not guilty. It really is that simple.

    Quote:

    What is fascinating to me is the Captain of the traffic division here took a meeting with me about a community matter and admitted to permitting his own officers to use cell phones, without head sets, while driving. Do officers have some special skills that the rest of us don't have that makes them a safer cell-phone driver-user
    Fascinating or not, VC 23123 provides an exception for certain individuals and circumstances (see subsection (d)). If you don;t like that, talk to the state legislature.

    Quote:

    PS: May I have your badge number? I'd like to make a request for your arrest records, I'm curious what they look like.
    You can ask ... but I am not in the habit of providing may name, agency, or ID number to people on the internet.

    Oh, and even if you knew them, you wouldn't be able to find my my "arrest records" ... and none involve 23123 violations anyway (though those would be citations for infractions and not arrests, per se).

    Quote:

    The request is being made because you're speaking to me as an identified California Law Enforcement officer and this request is made under the Government Code §§ 6250-6276.48 California Public Records Act. Please comply. Thank you.
    First, I am acting in my private capacity. Second, the CPRA records you might seek apply to my agency, not me. Not sure what you think you'd find, but it would make rather a dull read as I am a supervisor and administrator these days and tend to make about a quarter of the arrests that my officers do.
  • 03-17-2012, 02:43 PM
    borntodeal
    Re: Holding a Cell Phone While Driving
    Would you like me to dig out case law about off-duty police conduct sergeant? Be cautious, I will keep going with this.
  • 03-17-2012, 02:50 PM
    lurkertom
    Re: Holding a Cell Phone While Driving
    E thuggin' on an advice forum = Awesome.

    Do your own homework...troll.

    Your questions have been answered.
  • 03-17-2012, 02:54 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Holding a Cell Phone While Driving
    Quote:

    Quoting borntodeal
    View Post
    Would you like me to dig out case law about off-duty police conduct sergeant? Be cautious, I will keep going with this.

    Oh, you don't want to go there, friend.

    I can go on and on about off duty conduct and what does and does not constitute a legal nexus that might subject me to discipline. But, nothing you can provide can legally compel me to provide you with information I do not choose to provide.

    Why don't you just take a chill pill, apply for a trial by written declaration, and if you lose request a trial de novo. You will have two shots to contest the citation.
  • 03-20-2012, 03:21 AM
    LBaker
    Re: Holding a Cell Phone While Driving
    Quote:

    Quoting borntodeal
    View Post
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    Does holding a cell phone to check the time constitute "use" in California?

    If no call is being made?

    It depends on where you are. Some jurisdictions will cite (and even convict) for holding phones, while some look for actual phone use (holding up to ear) to cite.

    For what it's worth, using the phone GPS and Contacts applications are not illegal, so touching phone itself is not illegal. You still can be cited, but it's up to you to defend yourself against the officer's claim in court. People have had their tickets dismissed based on GPS use arguments. However if you were actually talking on the phone and the officer can testify seeing you talking on the phone, you don't have much of a case.

    Don't argue with cdwjava. While many here offer advices based on personal feelings and assumptions, his advices are generally good and based on experience. You many not like the answer, but they are fair.
  • 03-21-2012, 10:53 AM
    sniper
    Re: Holding a Cell Phone While Driving
    Quote:

    Quoting LBaker
    View Post
    Don't argue with cdwjava. While many here offer advices based on personal feelings and assumptions, his advices are generally good and based on experience. You many not like the answer, but they are fair.

    People never like answers from law enforcement officers. The want to know "How do I get out of my ticket?" and then get a reply stating why it is illegal. Then they say, "This chump spewes out garbage saying what I did is illegal. He's stupid. I came here for advice and he wants to lecture me"
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