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Ticket Without Traffic Stop

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  • 02-08-2012, 11:14 AM
    EdbPhila
    Ticket Without Traffic Stop
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: PA, (Phila.)
    Recieved a copy of a traffic citation today from 1/27/12 for failing to signal change of lane. I was never pulled over for this and unaware a cop had written a ticket. Cop must have written down plate number, then filled in the VIN number after looking it up. The "iD Source" box checked is "BMV". Vehicle description Honda S/W, Plack, is wrong. I drive a Honda Pilot SUV, Blue. Box on ticket that says : Defendants signature, acknowledges reciept of ticket: is blank, no signature. Weather condition is listed as Rain. Can the police write tickets without pulling you over, based on a plate number that they read, in the rain at 55mph?
  • 02-08-2012, 12:34 PM
    Security Consultant
    Re: Ticket Without Traffic Stop
    Can the police write tickets without pulling you over, based on a plate number that they read, in the rain at 55mph? - Yes, I've done that. For speed in excess of 100 MPH. The guy not-plead and had a trial. Result - 3 year suspension of his driving privileges and a $500 fine. His contention was I couldn't charge him because I never stopped him. He lived out of my jurisdiction. I went to the court and obtained a warrant for his arrest.

    Good luck.
  • 02-08-2012, 01:40 PM
    EdbPhila
    Re: Ticket Without Traffic Stop
    Thanks for the post but what does that have to do with my situation? Don't you think a cop can make a 1 digit mistake writing down a plate number while driving at 55mph in the rain. Thats all it takes to get a ticket sent to the wrong person. Why not just hit the red lights and siren and pull the car over. Going after a car at 100mph is not something that any cop should do, I agree with that. Thanks again.
  • 02-08-2012, 01:54 PM
    Security Consultant
    Re: Ticket Without Traffic Stop
    You asked, Can the police write tickets without pulling you over, based on a plate number that they read, in the rain at 55mph? I answered - yes they can and gave you an example. Have a nice day.
  • 02-08-2012, 04:40 PM
    davidmcbeth3
    Re: Ticket Without Traffic Stop
    http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/trinst.pdf

    and

    http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/title_4.pdf


    W/O seeing the ticket, I would guess that the notice to appear is not valid .... see the first link to see the time requirements for filing a motion to dismiss for lack of personal jurisdiction & failure to comply with court rules.

    Its not right to get a ticket like this --- several weeks later. Bad police work.
  • 02-08-2012, 06:24 PM
    Speedy Gonzalez
    Re: Ticket Without Traffic Stop
    Hmm... Wrong vehicle identification... No proper identification of the driver... No signature from the driver... no stop initiated. This will be extremely tough to prosecute.

    Is there more than one person listed on the registration?

    What is written in for name and description of you? Any of it wrong?
  • 02-08-2012, 06:35 PM
    jk
    Re: Ticket Without Traffic Stop
    Quote:

    Speedy Gonzalez;592777]Hmm... Wrong vehicle identification...
    How so? Pilot can be considered a station wagon. Blue can be mistaken for black if dark enough blue and limited lighting. Of course that gives some reasonable shot at challenge but he did have a plate number, the car is a honda, OP was in the area; I don't think it is impossible to overcome.

    The biggest issue is: who was driving. Depending on what the cop might testify to, that could be the way out.
  • 02-08-2012, 08:11 PM
    EdbPhila
    Re: Ticket Without Traffic Stop
    OK, the ticket is written in my name, which is the same as the registration on my vehicle. Thats simple, the cop jotted down a plate number, and a quick description of the vehicle, went to his computer, called it up on DMV, and filled in the rest of the ticket, including a VIN number! The only description of the driver listed on the ticket is a box that says M or F, M is checked. However there is that other box on the ticket that reads: "Identification Source", there are 5 choices there: "Drivers License", "Defendant", "Non Drivers License", "BMV", or "Other". The box checked is "BMV".
    Does anyone know what that is? Is it "by motor vehicle" ???? If it is, is that a valid way of identifiying someone?
    Jk: what do you mean by "OP was in the area"?
    You are right, blue can be mistaken for black in limited lighting, but the ticket was written at 7:30 am enough daylight to see the color.
    And I am still stuck on the whole issue of a cop writing a ticket for a minor violation w/o making a stop! I don't know if this is my ticket or not As I said to a previous poster maybe the cop (while driving 55 mph, in the rain) wrote down a tag number (that might have one number/letter wrong, easy to make a mistake) and quick description of a vehicle, noted that it was a male driver then stopped somewhere later and completed the ticket, turned it in at the end of his shift, and I get this in the mail. That one digit error gets the ticket sent to me, and the person it was meant for is out there and will never realize that any of this ever happened!
    Maybe the cop didn't feel like making a traffic stop in the rain, or maybe he was on his way to an appointment or on his coffee break! ( no pun intended... well maybe a little one!) Whatever the case, either make the stop or let it go till the next time! I mean if I WAS pulled over (and that hasn't happened in quite a number of years, 55 y/o with good driving record) and if I DID the violation, whatever the violation is, give me a ticket and if I knew I was guilty of what I was stopped for......simple shut my mouth and write the check, and move on. Thats the way is and thats NOT the way this is! And I'm not saying that I've NEVER changed lanes w/o signaling, don't get me wrong. Anyway..... Thank you all for posting , it is appreciated!
  • 02-08-2012, 08:38 PM
    davidmcbeth3
    Re: Ticket Without Traffic Stop
    Quote:

    Quoting davidmcbeth3
    View Post
    http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/trinst.pdf

    and

    http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/title_4.pdf




    W/O seeing the ticket, I would guess that the notice to appear is not valid .... see the first link to see the time requirements for filing a motion to dismiss for lack of personal jurisdiction & failure to comply with court rules.

    Its not right to get a ticket like this --- several weeks later. Bad police work.

    DUH, this is PA ...


    http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/23.../chap4toc.html

    and

    http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/23.../chap1toc.html


    Same idea though ..... it is highly prejudicial to your defense...
  • 02-09-2012, 06:01 AM
    jk
    Re: Ticket Without Traffic Stop
    Quote:

    As I said to a previous poster maybe the cop (while driving 55 mph, in the rain) wrote down a tag number (that might have one number/letter wrong,
    I understand your concern but realistically, what are the chances that your license is identical except for one digit to another blue or black car of your model and year? I know it's possible but very unlikely.

    my comment of "op was in the area"

    well, if you were not in the area, then obviously the cop was mistaken. Since you were in the area and the cop saw a car that was extremely similar to yours with a plate that was extremely close to yours, I suspect it was you. Of course you can argue the cop was mistaken. That is what the courts are for.
  • 02-09-2012, 07:43 AM
    davidmcbeth3
    Re: Ticket Without Traffic Stop
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    I understand your concern but realistically, what are the chances that your license is identical except for one digit to another blue or black car of your model and year? I know it's possible but very unlikely.
    .

    I don't know what the odds are but it may be a 50/50 chance ... the OP should NOT ask the officer is he is 100% sure of the plate # though ('cause he'll answer yes & then the OP is doomed). OP should ask about where the officer was in relation to the car; if the car was moving; etc .. to get facts on the record that could lead to the conclusion that the officer may have mistaken the plate # (how many blue cars are on the road; how many black cars). The fact that the ticket says station wagon would hurt the state's case...ask what SW stands for if he does not state it. Do not ask if your car is a station wagon, cause he'll say yes (wrong or right -- its a judgment call--leaving it open allows for the argument that he got the wrong tag #).

    And the OP should NOT take the stand -- the OP cannot testify that the officer made a mistake (that's just argument) -- unless the OP can testify that the OP was not in the area (which the OP has not said).

    Remember, the cars on the road include multiple year cars (I doubt the cop could make out the year of the model) .... so there are probably thousands of vehicles that meet the description of a black s/w looking like vehicle in the OP's area.

    One could bring printouts of a plate in various % reductions and ask the officer to read one taped to the back of the courtroom -- if he said he was 50' away and the courtroom is 25' long then put up a 1/2 size plate ... (this is risky as if he gets them right it shows he could have read your plate OK but if he gets it wrong then its a victory for sure). You will need testimony that will put his plate # testimony in question. So if you are going to do this get the officer to say as far away as possible. If he says 50', ask if he measured it..then ask could it have been 100' ft? Then whamo! eye test
  • 02-09-2012, 12:00 PM
    antrc170
    Re: Ticket Without Traffic Stop
    In most states police can issue a traffic summons or get an arrest warrant even if they don't pull you over. However, it will be difficult to prosecute. I suggest going to court and pleading "not guilty". The officer will testify as to what happened and how he ended up issuing the citation. You'll have a turn to question the officer.
    How did you identify the driver of the vehicle?
    Did you attempt to stop the vehicle for this violation?

    Point out the errors to the court and motion the court to dismiss the charge on the grounds that the officer did not present any evidence that you were the one driving the vehicle at the time of the infraction.
  • 02-09-2012, 12:55 PM
    davidmcbeth3
    Re: Ticket Without Traffic Stop
    Quote:

    Quoting antrc170
    View Post
    How did you identify the driver of the vehicle?

    \

    Cops answer will be: I recognize her, she's right there (and point to the defendant)....bad question to ask
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