Can an Identity Theft Victim Keep Items Purchased By the Offender

My question involves a consumer law issue in the State of: New York

I have a pre-paid debit card. The card was sent to my old address before i could change it (by 1 day) I moved. The people at my old address opened my mail, and took my card and used it to make online purchases, with my name and card number. They had these items shipped to my old address. I caught the items before they could be shipped and I thought i had canceled the orders. The company still shipped the items 12 days later. I got a refund of my money, (after getting it back once and having them RE-Charge it to my card), The item in question was on a payment plan, and there is still 260.00+ dollars left to pay on it. The police obtained the item from my previous address that where shipped to and gave them to me. They where shipped VIA FedEx. The police are involved and are handling the charges involved. (fraud, identify theft etc.)

Now do i have to send it back or Can i keep it? Do i run the risk of the company coming after me if i keep it? Even if i had called to cancel the order?


I"m sorry if this is in the wrong section.

Either pay for the items or send them back. You KNOW what the right answer is.

They want me to pay to have it shipped back, they wont send me a label, it also says so in the packing instructions about returning the items (if you don't want them), that to send them back you have to pay for the shipping. I know what right and wrong, I want to know what is LEGAL.

did you tell the seller they were illegally purchased using your card? I don't know how you can explain you have the items in your possession since they were purchased by some other party fraudulently using your card. Having the police report on hand might help. Sending them a copy of the report might help as well.

The huge problem is: the police would not have given you the items unless you told them you were going to keep them and even then they should not have given them to you. They were not your property. In fact, they were proof of a crime (you know, evidence). I can see no legitimate reason the cops would have given them to you. I suspect the seller is thinking the same.

Dang, why would you even open the packages since they were not yours?

I did inform the seller they where illegally ordered with my card, they refunded my money to the card, they told me their fraud department would contact me (they never did, but i got my money back), Then after i had canceled the cards, they charged it to me again (via transaction codes). They shipped the order 12 days after it was placed the first time, I had told them it was fraud one day after the charges came up the first time. I also got my money back the second time,
The police picked up the items from the driveway of the person who used my card (who is a convicted felon). I think so he wouldn't get a receiving stolen property charge. (not 100% sure).
The police called me and told me to come and pick up the items, in question. The package which had been sitting out in bad weather for several days was destroyed by rain and snow. It wasn't really opening them, but more of the fact that the box wouldn't support the weight of the items (everything inside was packaged in plastic)

I don't know why the police gave them to me, the detective in question just told me to come and get them, which i did. He was not actually there when i picked up the items, but they where given to me, with nothing more than a "have a nice day" no signatures, no records, nothing. I did give records of my pre-paid debit card to the officer, with the attempted transactions and the one that actually went through. (since it's a pre-paid the charges bounced until i actually put money on the card)

Should I go back to him and ask?

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The police picked up the items from the driveway of the person who used my card (who is a convicted felon). I think so he wouldn't get a receiving stolen property charge. (not 100% sure).

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so the cops completely ignored the fact the convicted felon was in the process of committing another felony and actually acted to protect him from prosecution in some way?

the more you post, the more it appears there was no crime at all.

so, have you gotten a copy of the report where you reported the fraudulent use of your card?

what you need to do is call the police and tell them the property is not yours and you have no idea why they would give it to you. They need to do something with it. Them hanging onto it as evidence of the prosecution of the criminal seems like a good idea but for some reason I suspect that just isn't going to happen (the prosecution that is).

The people who took the cards also attempted to use them at a local grocery chain here in ny, (TOPS) Which is how we got them on camera trying to use the card, but since it's a pre-paid they didn't actually go through. The charges for the online items only went through 2 weeks after the first attempted use because I had loaded money onto the card. The officer is also handling the mail fraud charges because we don't a investigator at our local post office. There where two cards in the mail one for me and one for my bf, we share the same account for our cards, but they each have our own names on our own cards. They attempted to order the items online 3 times before they actually went through. Again pre-paid so i didn't know they where even trying it until my card got debited.

I'm sorry if it's a bit confusing, there is more to the story, it's my father's house etc, he sold it to them, no written agreements, them not paying, blah blah blah, Mostly, i leave that WHOLE huge problem to my dad.

I know they are prosecuting him, and he was arrested for it. The officer told me so, and that he had talked to the DA about the case. I have gotten the report number for the fradulent use of my card, and submitted to the pre-paid debit card issuer, They in turn canceled the cards with the report. They wouldn't cancel them otherwise. (another edit- when i said cancel i meant the transactions not the actual cards)

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Quoting ravemidnight

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, They in turn canceled the cards with the report. They wouldn't cancel them otherwise.

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what? You mean you could never cancel the cards unless there was a verifiable fraudulent use of them? Wow, do those guys have a racket going on or what?


the fact is: you have no right to whatever was in the packages. Don't forget your thread title:

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Can an Identity Theft Victim Keep Items Purchased By the Offender

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It doesn't appear you want to return the items but rather find a way to keep whatever. How do you even know what the items are? Do the items just happen to fit you or are something you want?

Call the police and ask them why they gave the items to you. It makes absolutely no sense they would give them to you without you telling them they were your property. That is evidence of the crime. Unless the guy actually had possession of the packages, convicting them of anything is extremely involving the mail situation (and since they were sent FedEx, it is not mail fraud and even if there was an investigator at your local post office, they would do nothing because it does not involve the USPS) unlikely. Since they were simply in the guys drive, there is no way to prove he ordered the stuff or even knew about it.

If you did tell the police they were your property, then pay for them. If not, return them to the police and tell the bank that if they want the property or the money, they need to contact the police. Of course having a contact number and name for them would be a good idea.

I'll try and explain it a little more, to the best of what the officer told me. That he ended up admitting that he attempted to use the cards at TOPS, after he lied and said it was not him. Video footage ended up showing it was him. This transaction did NOT go through. Then he attempted to make 3 more charges of the items in question, on three seperate occasions before the last 4th time it actually went through, because i loaded money onto the card. At That time it was thought that the items in question has not been shipped, because that is what the seller told me, and they had refunded my money. Then 12 days after the initial charge they shipped it and only 2 days after the initial refund, they charged it to me again. I called them back, and they fixed it AGAIN, and refunded my money AGAIN. But inbetween that time I had already filed a police report, and had the cards canceled. (they charged me using the transaction codes, instead of the card number, because they had shipped the product already, I have no idea why company would do that, and it confuses the heck out of me.) The police then in turn told him/his lawyer about getting the property into police possesion. He was already arrested and charged by the time the items in question arrived... He flat out refused to take the items into his home. The police picked them up and i got a phone call telling me to come get them.. and you know most of the rest of the story,,,

I just don't want to have to pay for shipping of an item i didn't order. Which i think is insane. Its you shipped them after i told you it was fraud, why should I have to pay to ship them back? In my case, it's something i don't need nor really want. So it's not that i don't want to return them, but more of the fact that i don't want to pay for it,

But he did have to open my mail to get my cards out of it,

Also that wasn't me who posted that title, someone changed it. :( i didn't know someone else could, my original title was "Do i have to send it back?"

EDIT
he used his phone number when ordering the items in question.

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Its you shipped them after i told you it was fraud, why should I have to pay to ship them back?

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it's not always that easy to stop an order already in progress.


I still do not see why the police turned over the items to you. You had no right to them and no duty to return them or accept them. By accepting them, you really kind of put yourself in the position you are in.

I think that may be why the seller is being so firm on their position. I suspect they cannot understand why you would have possession of the items since you reported them as being ordered fraudulently by another party living at a different address. Unless you can convince whomever wants the items back there is truth to the story, I suspect you are either stuck paying to send them back or simply paying for the merchandise.

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He was already arrested and charged by the time the items in question arrived..

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he couldn't have been charged for the fraudulent purchases that were shipped to him by then.

He was charged with mail fraud, because he had to open my mail to get my cards, Plus the use of the cards. He has other pending problems against him. That and the fact that the post office said more mail was sent to that address that i did not get. I am going to call the officer tomorrow and see whats going on. i just figured if he gave it to me it was mine, but i wanted to make sure.

side note : the seller wants me to ship it back and pay for it, but when i asked what would happen if i didn't they didn't know, the company is an "as seen on t.v. brand" and the company that handles the shipping and stuff is just a subcontracted company. The manufacturer isn't who i have been dealing with since they dont ship the items. I have been dealing with the subcontracted company that refunds my money everytime.

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ravemidnight;590107]He was charged with mail fraud, because he had to open my mail to get my cards,

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so they can prove he opened the mail? and it isn't mail fraud to open another's mail. It would have been fraud if he ordered the cards using your name and they were delivered to him but since they were delivered to the proper address, there was no crime in opening them.

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Plus the use of the cards.

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at the store? sure. for the purchase of the mail order items: not provable until he possessed the items. They would not have considered charging him until he accepted the items as that is the only proof he even knew about them.

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That and the fact that the post office said more mail was sent to that address that i did not get.

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so? That is not a legal problem. It is your responsibility to change your address. Once mail is delivered to the proper address, the USPS does not deal with what happens to it it after that.

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I am going to call the officer tomorrow and see whats going on. i just figured if he gave it to me it was mine, but i wanted to make sure.

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the police do not have the authority to give you the items. In fact, it would be a criminal act on their part to do so.

COMPLICATED, sigh.
While he was moving his things IN, i was moving my things OUT, he took it while i was still residing at the residence. It was not my choice of they way to do it that way but my fathers. he took the mail while i "technically" living there. i had a new address, and i changed my address the day after they shipped the cards out, it was an automatic system due to the fact that our old cards where expiring, they sent them out 5 weeks in advance when they told me the never do it before 2 weeks before the expire, which if they had done what they had said, would have been shipped to my new address.

I HAD changed my address about a week before i moved out, by then it was too late. overnight mail, didn't help my situation.

When he ordered the items, he used his HOME PHONE number to place the order. The new number for my old house. The officer figured that part out, he also used his email address. he ordered over the internet. he has possesion of my cards.

he still doesn;t own the house or technically rent it, his gf does, and that a whole complicated matter in which my father "rent to own" them our house. They where storing their things in the house, I don't get mail all that often to be worried about something i didn't know was coming., They didn't live there until i moved out and gave them my keys, They did not get any mail there until after i moved out. The post office checked.

so, not only was the mail delivered to the correct address, it was where the addressee was still technically a resident.

This has nothing to do with the USPS and mail fraud and since the delivery was via FedEx, this entire situation has nothing to do with the USPS or mail fraud.

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he also used his email address.

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so? attempting to identify a person by his email address is undependable. I have at least 4 email addresses and access to hundreds of others email addresses which I could use to order merchandise.

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When he ordered the items, he used his HOME PHONE number to place the order. The new number for my old house. The officer figured that part out, he also used his email address. he ordered over the internet. he has possesion of my cards.

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what do you mean he used his home phone number to place the order. You say immediately after that he ordered over the internet. Which is it?

and now you say he has possession of your cards? What happened to him being arrested?

and you changed your address a week prior to the time the cards were sent via overnight mail? What ever happened to the USPS forwarding the mail due to the change of address you filled out? Of course the mail would have been marked "do not forward" and for mail that cannot be forwarded, it is returned to sender. It is not delivered to the old address.

What part of to get my cards he had to go to my mailbox, open it, open the mail, is unclear? The cards came shipped VIA the US Mail system. He ordered over the internet, and when typing in my credit card information he used his phone number, and his email address. So when he entered the information into the website, he put in his phone number and email address. he had to use my cards to order them, and since he was in possesion of my cards at tops, on video footage with the cards, at the store. He used again. he needed the security number on the back of the cards to do it. The credit card company automatically sent the cards out 5 weeks before they where set to expire, even though they said they never do it before two weeks, i was in transition of moving my things out of the house when he was moving his things into it, i had two addresses. if i had known the cards where being shipped out i would have changed the cards address before they shipped it, but i didnt. I changed it one day too late. As for the post office i changed my mail to my new address 1 week before i moved out of the old house into my new place.


He used the cards only AFTER I moved out. i did NOT KNOW that the cards had been sent out UNTIL AFTER THE FRAUD HAD OCCURED. it was purely by chance i changed my address the day after they sent the cards out. They said "we never send them out more than two weeks before the expiration dated on the card"

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ravemidnight;590131]What part of to get my cards he had to go to my mailbox, open it, open the mail, is unclear?

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nothing but what part of "that is not mail fraud" not clear to you?

In addition, the mail was delivered to the correct address. The guy you are claiming is the criminal has the legal right to remove all the mail from his post box. Once the mail is removed from the post box, the USPS no longer governs the delivery of that mail.

and to support that, read this:

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As noted by appellant, there is a split among the federal circuits as to how this statute should be interpreted. Several courts have interpreted the legislation as drawing a distinction between "misaddressed" and "misdelivered" mail, holding that where the sender places the name of a third person on the envelope but uses the defendant's address, the item ceases to be "mail matter" once it has been delivered to the place listed on the envelope, even if the addressee is not at that address. See, e.g., United States v. Lavin, 567 F.2d 579, 581 n.6 (3d Cir. 1977); United States v. Anton, 547 F.2d 493, 495 (9th Cir. 1976); and United States v. Davis, 461 F.2d 83, 88-89 (5th Cir.), cert. denied, 409 U.S. 921 (1972). Under that view, although it is permissible to prosecute a defendant for stealing from a letter addressed to another location that has been misdelivered to the defendant's address, a defendant cannot be prosecuted for stealing from an envelope that contains the defendant's address, even if a third party is the named addressee. Other circuits have taken the view that a person may be prosecuted for mail theft for stealing mail addressed to another person, regardless whether it is misdelivered or misaddressed. See, e.g., United States v. Palmer, 864 F.2d 524 (7th Cir. 1988), cert. denied, 490U.S. 1110 (1989); United States v. Douglas, 668 F.2d 459 (10th Cir.), cert. denied, 457 U.S. 1108 (1982).

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regardless of all this irrelevant discussion, I suspect you are either going to have to either pay the delivery charges or pay for the merchandise. I agree it is not fair but there is not really much you can do about it since you did accept delivery of the items. Why I'll never understand but the fact remains that you did.

He did NOT LIVE THERE at the time that he took my mail, He lives there now yes, but at the time, their things where only being STORED there and they lived at another address. He had no mail being sent to him, there was no reason for him to even be in my mailbox at all. He was not the one purchasing the "rent to own house" his girlfriend is. His name is on no paperwork, because there is no paperwork, right now since there is none its a verbal agreement between his gf and my dad. and even that is starting to look like he has to come back here for her not paying most of the money she owes him. but thats a whole complicated mess that i dont care about.


The "defendant" didn't live there until i moved out.

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Quoting ravemidnight

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He did NOT LIVE THERE at the time that he took my mail, He lives there now yes, but at the time, their things where only being STORED there and they lived at another address.

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by your own statement:

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While he was moving his things IN, i was moving my things OUT,

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so, you want to argue he was moving his property into YOUR house? Not buying it. People move their property into their homes.

It doesn't matter if he lived there or not. What matters is if he had a lawful right to possess the home and apparently he did. As such, he had the right to receive the mail in the mailbox.

The last day i moved out, was when he was moving in, his GF moved in some of her plants weeks before the cold hit so they would die in the cold, storing fertilizer and pots, My father agreed to take care of her plants, nothing else was in the house until the day i moved out. Its not theirs until they pay for it, or have some agreement,I was still living there until the day their stuff came into the house.

In what you saying if i moved some of my stuff into your house, i'd own it? not likely.He didn't have anything lawfully to own because he's not the one my father made an agreement with, his gf is. They aint married. and there is no common law marriage in NY



Oh, and there is still a mortgage on the house in my dads name. she is RENTING TO OWN, she never made the initial downpayment, and have only paid a 1/4 of the money she was supposed to have paid my father, so he can make the morage payments, she supposed to take over the loan in 5 years, but until that time, it isn't theirs.

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Its not theirs until they pay for it, or have some agreement,I was still living there until the say their stuff came into the house.

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make up your mind. Either you were moving out and they were moving in or they were putting some plants in a house only you had the authority to authorize and it appears you did not authorize the activity.

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In what you saying if i moved some of my stuff into your house, i'd own it?

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I wouldn't allow you to move some of your stuff into my house so I wouldn't have to worry about it.

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not likely.He didn't have anything lawfully to own because he's not the one my father made an agreement with, his gf is.

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yet you said this:

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it's my father's house etc, he sold it to them,

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them, not her. Your words, not mine. Beyond that, even if the gf was the only one in the contract, since she has allowed him to reside there, he has the same authority as she in removing the mail from the box.

You can change anything you want to change. It doesn't change the fact that you had no business picking up the merchandise from the police station. Since you did, if the seller stands firm on not paying for the return shipping, you are either going to have to pay the shipping or pay for the merchandise.

there is still a mortgage on the house in my dads nameoh, so i mistyped, it happen sometimes, one word, not so big a deal. I only say them, because now the both live there. The verbal contract is between my father and the gf. Moving in the same day i moving out with two trucks is completely acceptable. i don't see how that could be so complicated. If i had no business doing it(picking up the items), why would the police call me and ask me to do so? That not on me it's on them. I'm gonna call tomorrow.



Wouldn't it be easier for the seller to call them and have The police send them the item? I do what nice policemen ask me to do. They knew the police had it. so i don't understand anymore than the rest of you. I just wanted to know if i ended up not wanting to pay for something i didn't buy, why should i have to pay to ship it back? Why not ask the police to pay to ship it back? If the company was so serious about getting their product back, they could send a stupid label, hell i'd even buy the damned box, it's their fault they shipped it after it was fraud, and they KNEW it was fraud. and they TOLD me they had canceled the order and it had not been shipped yet, so why ship it out 12 days later?

I not paying for anyone elses mistakes.

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Quoting ravemidnight

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I not paying for anyone elses mistakes.

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that is yet to be seen.