Re: Do I Have to Send It Back
He was charged with mail fraud, because he had to open my mail to get my cards, Plus the use of the cards. He has other pending problems against him. That and the fact that the post office said more mail was sent to that address that i did not get. I am going to call the officer tomorrow and see whats going on. i just figured if he gave it to me it was mine, but i wanted to make sure.
side note : the seller wants me to ship it back and pay for it, but when i asked what would happen if i didn't they didn't know, the company is an "as seen on t.v. brand" and the company that handles the shipping and stuff is just a subcontracted company. The manufacturer isn't who i have been dealing with since they dont ship the items. I have been dealing with the subcontracted company that refunds my money everytime.
Re: Do I Have to Send It Back
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ravemidnight;590107]He was charged with mail fraud, because he had to open my mail to get my cards,
so they can prove he opened the mail? and it isn't mail fraud to open another's mail. It would have been fraud if he ordered the cards using your name and they were delivered to him but since they were delivered to the proper address, there was no crime in opening them.
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Plus the use of the cards.
at the store? sure. for the purchase of the mail order items: not provable until he possessed the items. They would not have considered charging him until he accepted the items as that is the only proof he even knew about them.
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That and the fact that the post office said more mail was sent to that address that i did not get.
so? That is not a legal problem. It is your responsibility to change your address. Once mail is delivered to the proper address, the USPS does not deal with what happens to it it after that.
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I am going to call the officer tomorrow and see whats going on. i just figured if he gave it to me it was mine, but i wanted to make sure.
the police do not have the authority to give you the items. In fact, it would be a criminal act on their part to do so.
Re: Do I Have to Send It Back
COMPLICATED, sigh.
While he was moving his things IN, i was moving my things OUT, he took it while i was still residing at the residence. It was not my choice of they way to do it that way but my fathers. he took the mail while i "technically" living there. i had a new address, and i changed my address the day after they shipped the cards out, it was an automatic system due to the fact that our old cards where expiring, they sent them out 5 weeks in advance when they told me the never do it before 2 weeks before the expire, which if they had done what they had said, would have been shipped to my new address.
I HAD changed my address about a week before i moved out, by then it was too late. overnight mail, didn't help my situation.
When he ordered the items, he used his HOME PHONE number to place the order. The new number for my old house. The officer figured that part out, he also used his email address. he ordered over the internet. he has possesion of my cards.
he still doesn;t own the house or technically rent it, his gf does, and that a whole complicated matter in which my father "rent to own" them our house. They where storing their things in the house, I don't get mail all that often to be worried about something i didn't know was coming., They didn't live there until i moved out and gave them my keys, They did not get any mail there until after i moved out. The post office checked.
Re: Do I Have to Send It Back
so, not only was the mail delivered to the correct address, it was where the addressee was still technically a resident.
This has nothing to do with the USPS and mail fraud and since the delivery was via FedEx, this entire situation has nothing to do with the USPS or mail fraud.
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he also used his email address.
so? attempting to identify a person by his email address is undependable. I have at least 4 email addresses and access to hundreds of others email addresses which I could use to order merchandise.
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When he ordered the items, he used his HOME PHONE number to place the order. The new number for my old house. The officer figured that part out, he also used his email address. he ordered over the internet. he has possesion of my cards.
what do you mean he used his home phone number to place the order. You say immediately after that he ordered over the internet. Which is it?
and now you say he has possession of your cards? What happened to him being arrested?
and you changed your address a week prior to the time the cards were sent via overnight mail? What ever happened to the USPS forwarding the mail due to the change of address you filled out? Of course the mail would have been marked "do not forward" and for mail that cannot be forwarded, it is returned to sender. It is not delivered to the old address.
Re: Do I Have to Send It Back
What part of to get my cards he had to go to my mailbox, open it, open the mail, is unclear? The cards came shipped VIA the US Mail system. He ordered over the internet, and when typing in my credit card information he used his phone number, and his email address. So when he entered the information into the website, he put in his phone number and email address. he had to use my cards to order them, and since he was in possesion of my cards at tops, on video footage with the cards, at the store. He used again. he needed the security number on the back of the cards to do it. The credit card company automatically sent the cards out 5 weeks before they where set to expire, even though they said they never do it before two weeks, i was in transition of moving my things out of the house when he was moving his things into it, i had two addresses. if i had known the cards where being shipped out i would have changed the cards address before they shipped it, but i didnt. I changed it one day too late. As for the post office i changed my mail to my new address 1 week before i moved out of the old house into my new place.
He used the cards only AFTER I moved out. i did NOT KNOW that the cards had been sent out UNTIL AFTER THE FRAUD HAD OCCURED. it was purely by chance i changed my address the day after they sent the cards out. They said "we never send them out more than two weeks before the expiration dated on the card"
Re: Do I Have to Send It Back
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ravemidnight;590131]What part of to get my cards he had to go to my mailbox, open it, open the mail, is unclear?
nothing but what part of "that is not mail fraud" not clear to you?
In addition, the mail was delivered to the correct address. The guy you are claiming is the criminal has the legal right to remove all the mail from his post box. Once the mail is removed from the post box, the USPS no longer governs the delivery of that mail.
and to support that, read this:
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As noted by appellant, there is a split among the federal circuits as to how this statute should be interpreted. Several courts have interpreted the legislation as drawing a distinction between "misaddressed" and "misdelivered" mail, holding that where the sender places the name of a third person on the envelope but uses the defendant's address, the item ceases to be "mail matter" once it has been delivered to the place listed on the envelope, even if the addressee is not at that address. See, e.g., United States v. Lavin, 567 F.2d 579, 581 n.6 (3d Cir. 1977); United States v. Anton, 547 F.2d 493, 495 (9th Cir. 1976); and United States v. Davis, 461 F.2d 83, 88-89 (5th Cir.), cert. denied, 409 U.S. 921 (1972). Under that view, although it is permissible to prosecute a defendant for stealing from a letter addressed to another location that has been misdelivered to the defendant's address, a defendant cannot be prosecuted for stealing from an envelope that contains the defendant's address, even if a third party is the named addressee. Other circuits have taken the view that a person may be prosecuted for mail theft for stealing mail addressed to another person, regardless whether it is misdelivered or misaddressed. See, e.g., United States v. Palmer, 864 F.2d 524 (7th Cir. 1988), cert. denied, 490U.S. 1110 (1989); United States v. Douglas, 668 F.2d 459 (10th Cir.), cert. denied, 457 U.S. 1108 (1982).
regardless of all this irrelevant discussion, I suspect you are either going to have to either pay the delivery charges or pay for the merchandise. I agree it is not fair but there is not really much you can do about it since you did accept delivery of the items. Why I'll never understand but the fact remains that you did.
Re: Do I Have to Send It Back
He did NOT LIVE THERE at the time that he took my mail, He lives there now yes, but at the time, their things where only being STORED there and they lived at another address. He had no mail being sent to him, there was no reason for him to even be in my mailbox at all. He was not the one purchasing the "rent to own house" his girlfriend is. His name is on no paperwork, because there is no paperwork, right now since there is none its a verbal agreement between his gf and my dad. and even that is starting to look like he has to come back here for her not paying most of the money she owes him. but thats a whole complicated mess that i dont care about.
The "defendant" didn't live there until i moved out.
Re: Do I Have to Send It Back
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Quoting
ravemidnight
He did NOT LIVE THERE at the time that he took my mail, He lives there now yes, but at the time, their things where only being STORED there and they lived at another address.
by your own statement:
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While he was moving his things IN, i was moving my things OUT,
so, you want to argue he was moving his property into YOUR house? Not buying it. People move their property into their homes.
It doesn't matter if he lived there or not. What matters is if he had a lawful right to possess the home and apparently he did. As such, he had the right to receive the mail in the mailbox.
Re: Do I Have to Send It Back
The last day i moved out, was when he was moving in, his GF moved in some of her plants weeks before the cold hit so they would die in the cold, storing fertilizer and pots, My father agreed to take care of her plants, nothing else was in the house until the day i moved out. Its not theirs until they pay for it, or have some agreement,I was still living there until the day their stuff came into the house.
In what you saying if i moved some of my stuff into your house, i'd own it? not likely.He didn't have anything lawfully to own because he's not the one my father made an agreement with, his gf is. They aint married. and there is no common law marriage in NY
Oh, and there is still a mortgage on the house in my dads name. she is RENTING TO OWN, she never made the initial downpayment, and have only paid a 1/4 of the money she was supposed to have paid my father, so he can make the morage payments, she supposed to take over the loan in 5 years, but until that time, it isn't theirs.
Re: Do I Have to Send It Back
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Its not theirs until they pay for it, or have some agreement,I was still living there until the say their stuff came into the house.
make up your mind. Either you were moving out and they were moving in or they were putting some plants in a house only you had the authority to authorize and it appears you did not authorize the activity.
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In what you saying if i moved some of my stuff into your house, i'd own it?
I wouldn't allow you to move some of your stuff into my house so I wouldn't have to worry about it.
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not likely.He didn't have anything lawfully to own because he's not the one my father made an agreement with, his gf is.
yet you said this:
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it's my father's house etc, he sold it to them,
them, not her. Your words, not mine. Beyond that, even if the gf was the only one in the contract, since she has allowed him to reside there, he has the same authority as she in removing the mail from the box.
You can change anything you want to change. It doesn't change the fact that you had no business picking up the merchandise from the police station. Since you did, if the seller stands firm on not paying for the return shipping, you are either going to have to pay the shipping or pay for the merchandise.