ExpertLaw.com Forums

First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page
Page 1 of 2 1 2 Next LastLast
  • 01-28-2012, 06:04 PM
    notmybestweek
    First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    I received my first-ever speeding ticket yesterday from the Spokane County Sheriff's Office and have also never been ticketed for any other moving violations. I'm looking through all my options and was wondering if anyone has any advice on which route to take.

    BACKGROUND

    I was in a hurry to get to the office, so it's pretty likely I was speeding. I took the back route to the main Interstate through town, I-90, which involves driving through a neighborhood street (25 mph zone, even though it feels like a country road), making a sharp left turn, stopping at stop sign to cross southbound lane of the state highway (50 or 55mph zone) to merge onto the northbound lane, then taking the (40mph) off-ramp to I-90. I was pulled over on the off-ramp and never noticed the officer until he was right behind me with lights flashing.

    He told me he stopped me for speeding and not stopping at the stop sign and asked for my license. I didn't admit or deny speeding and just responded with "I didn't?" to the no stopping argument (I probably did one of those "California rolls"). Then I gave him my temporary license (explaining to him that my wallet, including my license had been stolen the day before - didn't get much sympathy there). He went back to his vehicle to do his thing and showed up a few minutes later with the ticket.

    The ($124) ticket was for driving 35 mph in a 25 zone. There as a note that said 38 mph (actual speed he said he measured) followed by "R72 S/B speed" - does anyone know what that last part means? He also noted on there "(Warning for stop sign)." When I first told me his laser caught me doing 38 mph I was a little incredulous because I had thought he stopped me for speeding on the state highway, but apparently it was on the neighborhood street before the turn. So either I passed him while he was parked somewhere out of sight, he was behind me and I didn't notice, or he was one of three or four cars I passed that were going the other direction, in which case he would have had to make a U-turn to follow and stop me.

    MY OPTIONS

    A/ Pay the ticket without mitigating/contesting.
    I chatted with my insurance agent, and he said he would take that option since my insurance company apparently doesn't normally do annual checks of driving records (too costly) and given my clean driving history they would have no reason to single me out. I believe him, as my husband got his first WA speeding ticket last year and it didn't do anything to our premium. Downside: it will be on my record and if I were to get in a fender bender in the next three years, that's when the insurance company would pull up my record and it would affect my premium for sure. Right now I'm eligible for "accident forgiveness" (no premium increases after accident if you have been accident-free for 5 years and no violations in past 3 years).
    B/ Mitigation hearing
    I'm not inclined to go this route because this would still end up on my record. Even if they reduced the fine by 50 percent it would still not be worth my time and the hassle to make a court appearance just for that.
    C/ Contested hearing
    If there's any chance I could get off on a technicality I might choose this option to keep my driving record clean. Based on the details above, does anyone see any loopholes? Or would I need to request the hearing and get the officer's full report before it's possible to see whether I might have a good defense for this? My thought is that my chances of this being dismissed are pretty slim, especially since I was already given a break on the speed fine and the no stopping warning. Also, if I lose would there be any chance I'd actually end up with a higher fine based on the actual speed measured?
    D/ Traffic education program
    I was given a flyer on a traffic education program I could attend to get my ticket and fine dismissed. Fee for the program is $115, though, and the program takes up a full day. I appear to have little influence on when it would be scheduled and rescheduling is not possible. Too much of a hassle. Plus, I'm not sure if I'd be eligible since it's only for people have only one violation. Would my stop sign warning counts as my second violation or not?
    E/ Deferral
    I would qualify for this, but Spokane County Web site says I'd pay a $150 admin fee for this, plus I may be required to also do traffic school at my expense (another $115). And if I were to receive another ticket within a year, I lose the fee, plus the potential traffic school expense and end up with two violations on my record anyway. Seems risky.

    Note that my insurance agent said he has talked to people who said they had paid to keep a violation off their driving record (option D or E, I guess), then when he pulled up their records it was still on there...

    Anyway, any advice is appreciated!
  • 01-28-2012, 06:57 PM
    BrendanjKeegan
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    Quote:

    Quoting notmybestweek
    View Post
    C/ Contested hearing
    If there's any chance I could get off on a technicality I might choose this option to keep my driving record clean. Based on the details above, does anyone see any loopholes? Or would I need to request the hearing and get the officer's full report before it's possible to see whether I might have a good defense for this? My thought is that my chances of this being dismissed are pretty slim, especially since I was already given a break on the speed fine and the no stopping warning. Also, if I lose would there be any chance I'd actually end up with a higher fine based on the actual speed measured?

    The best thing to do is request discovery and see the case against you. Then you can decide what you want to do from there.

    Here's the best way of going about handling a ticket:
    -Request a Contested Hearing, as this is the only way of securing your rights.
    -Wait for the notice of hearing to come.
    -Request discovery on the 14th day before trial.
    -Once you get your discovery and post it up here, we can give you a percentage on the likelihood of prevailing in court. If you decide at that point that you don't want to go through with contesting, you can always go to court and "change your plea" during the contested hearing and explain mitigating circumstances. You can also just decide to pay it anytime before your hearing.

    As to the stop sign, it is what we call "no factor." You weren't charged with it, so it is irrelevant in any proceeding. Had you been charged with it or negligent driving, that would be a second story. But as for now, that isn't worth worrying about.
  • 01-28-2012, 10:51 PM
    davidmcbeth3
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    In the real world, it does not matter if you actually were speeding; they have to prove it. And also in the real world, few traffic defendants are prepared well enough to offer much of a defense strategy.

    I see that they tagged you using LIDAR (laser is a layman's term) ... you could request to see the range that they use to check their instrument to see if the distances are properly marked and are accurate.

    Read up on the WA court rules is your first step to understanding the processes involved.
  • 01-30-2012, 08:49 AM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    Thank you, Brendan. Let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly: if, based on discovery, my chances of successfully contesting this ticket don't look so good, I can pay the ticket before the hearing, in which case I won't have to show up in court? And what if I do end up going to court, is there any chance my fine could end up higher than the one the officer imposed (since he gave me a break)?
  • 01-30-2012, 02:17 PM
    BrendanjKeegan
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    Quote:

    Quoting notmybestweek
    View Post
    if, based on discovery, my chances of successfully contesting this ticket don't look so good, I can pay the ticket before the hearing, in which case I won't have to show up in court?

    Correct. You can pay the ticket at anytime before the hearing and not be required to attend court.

    Quote:

    Quoting notmybestweek
    View Post
    And what if I do end up going to court, is there any chance my fine could end up higher than the one the officer imposed (since he gave me a break)?

    Absolutely not. Your fine will (at the very worst) stay the same. But most judges are lenient and give you a break by 30-40$ if you show up in court and lose. The judge CANNOT raise the price of a ticket.
  • 01-30-2012, 02:21 PM
    davidmcbeth3
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    Quote:

    Quoting BrendanjKeegan
    View Post
    The judge CANNOT raise the price of a ticket.

    Sounds like you are paying for a show ... come-on judge EnterTAIN me!
  • 02-12-2012, 01:55 PM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    Thanks again, Brendan. I went ahead and sent in my request for a hearing and am waiting for the notice of hearing to come back. Is there a specific reason why I should not request discovery until after I receive the notice of hearing?
  • 02-12-2012, 03:47 PM
    Speedy Gonzalez
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    Quote:

    Quoting BrendanjKeegan
    View Post
    But most judges are lenient and give you a break by 30-40$ if you show up in court and lose. The judge CANNOT raise the price of a ticket.

    They generally will not lower a contested loss, either. I've had them say outright, "Once you are sworn in and we begin your contested hearing, I cannot lower the fine." Not sure if that's a court-by-court basis or court rules in general, but I've heard this same thing out of the judges in KCDC Redmond, KCDC Issaquah, and Snohomish South.
  • 02-12-2012, 03:53 PM
    BrendanjKeegan
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    Well, in all reality, you can request it whenever you want. However, if you can learn to play the game of time against the prosecution there's a good chance they won't provide you with the discovery in time. The rule governing discovery says that the request must be made at least 14 days before trial. The prosecution then has 7 days to respond. There's a chance that the prosecution does not have the resoures to respond in that amount of time.

    Speedy: I have yet to hear that in KCDC and SnoCo South. This must be relatively new.
  • 02-12-2012, 04:12 PM
    Speedy Gonzalez
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    Quote:

    Quoting notmybestweek
    View Post
    Is there a specific reason why I should not request discovery until after I receive the notice of hearing?

    I see it this way: Your case will not exist in the court's system until the infraction is filed with the court. Requesting discovery too soon and filing a copy with the court could cause issues since the court has no record of the case (yet).
  • 02-28-2012, 09:21 PM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    Finally got the hearing notice (dated Feb. 24) today. I have to appear on Mar. 21. I guess that means I should file for discovery by on or before next Wednesday, March 7. How do I do this? Is there a form I fill out? Do I have to do this in person at the Spokane County District Court office? Also, how much time should I reserve on my calendar for the hearing?
  • 02-28-2012, 09:35 PM
    Speedy Gonzalez
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    Read this thread. By far, IMO, the best method is to hand-deliver the discovery request to the prosecutor's office, have them stamp all three copes, leave one for them as their official service, hand deliver the other two to the court, have them stamp both, leaving one for them to file, then keep the last as your proof.

    You are correct on your dates. Get it in their hands and filed with the court on or before the 7th of March. You should leave at least 3-4 hours after your scheduled time. You never know what will happen. I've sat around for 3 hours, and I've been the first called. You just never know.

    Oh, and if you get a response, scan/photo and post it all here after you redact your personal info.
  • 02-28-2012, 09:57 PM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    Got it, thanks! The form seems easy enough to use, for the most part. I'm guessing in the plaintiff box, I don't use the "City of ____" part since this is going to county court, not municipal court - is that correct? The instructions say to "use title on your notice." Not sure which notice this refers to. The hearing notice just says Spokane County District Court. Infraction notice has boxes checked for State Washington, County of Spokane, and City of Spokane.
  • 03-05-2012, 08:24 AM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    Speedy: To deliver the discovery request to the prosecutor's office, do I need the name of a specific prosecutor assigned to my case or can I deliver it to the Spokane County Prosecuting Attorney's Office in general? Tried calling the court clerk last week to get the address and was put through to the automated response system for the prosecutor's office, which didn't have any traffic-related options. I guess I can try calling again, but if the Spokane County Prosecuting Attorney's Office in general is good enough, I might just deliver it there on Wednesday. Their address is clearly listed on their Web site.
  • 03-05-2012, 06:00 PM
    Speedy Gonzalez
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    Handing it to any clerk at their office to file it is sufficient service. Just make sure they stamp all three copies of your request with their "received on (date)" stamp.
  • 03-05-2012, 09:55 PM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    Will do - thanks, Speedy! I will post the actual discovery as soon as I get it.
  • 03-07-2012, 10:26 AM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    Speedy: sorry to be so needy, but I have another question. I filed the discovery request today. Everything went like a breeze, since both prosecutor's office and county court clerk were in the same location. Then after I filed my copy with the county court clerk, who asked me for the original copy, it dawned on me that I forgot to sign the discovery request. Hitting myself in the head right now... I plan to go back and refile the SIGNED discovery request this afternoon. Does that sound like a good idea, or is it better to have one unsigned request filed than to duplicate a request I already submitted? I don't want to ruin my chances of filing for dismissal if they don't send me the discovery within the 7-day period. Thanks!
  • 03-07-2012, 12:59 PM
    Speedy Gonzalez
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    Hmmm not sure about that one. I don't know if a signature is required or not. Barry could probably answer that.
  • 03-07-2012, 01:34 PM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    @blewis: If you're online, could I have your thoughts on this? Is it a problem that the the discovery request I filed does not contain a signature? If it is, then I'll go refile this afternoon before 4:00 p.m. (last day I can do it) - even though that means I'm filing a duplicate request. If you think it isn't, I'll let it go.
  • 03-07-2012, 08:58 PM
    blewis
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    I don't really know. If I were to guess, I'd say "no". It's not a "sworn" document or anything of the sort -- just a request. I've seen people turn in a hand written piece of paper that just says "I'm requesting discovery" -- but I don't remember if they were signed. You could call the Clerk and get their opinion.

    Barry
  • 03-07-2012, 10:43 PM
    Speedy Gonzalez
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    That's kind of where I was leaning with it, but I wasn't certain. That's why I deferred to you. :)
  • 03-07-2012, 11:56 PM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    Thank you both! I had to make a decision before the offices closed by 4 p.m. so I ended up filing it again, with signature this time. Only took me about 20 minutes and I figured it probably wouldn't hurt to have filed the same request twice. So now begins the wait for the discovery to turn up...or not.
  • 03-14-2012, 10:51 PM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    Received the discovery from the prosecutor today, Mar. 14, exactly within 7 days. There's a note that states the state does not intend to call any witnesses, a copy of the notice of infraction (which I posted here), and a copy of the officer's sworn statement (posted here). The notice of infraction was filed with the court on Jan. 31, four days after the violation date.

    @Speedy Gonzalez, @Blewis, @BrendanjKeegan, do you see anything I could use as a defense? What would you say my chances for dismissal are? It looks to me like there's not a whole lot to go on, but I'm not an expert of course.

    One thing I did notice is that the copy of the notice of infraction the prosecutor's office sent me has a note on the side that is not on my own copy and that I can't read since it got cut off by the copier. Probably not interesting, but I thought I'd mention in case I could use that somehow.

    Another observation: the sworn statement says the radar was used in moving mode. I never saw the officer until he appeared in my rear view mirror, two left turns and several hundred yards away from the location identified in the notice of infraction. So I don't know for sure whether he was stationary when he spotted me or whether he was driving, and it does not say on the statement either. Is the fact that he didn't include this something I could use to argue that the SMD may not have been used in the right mode?
  • 03-14-2012, 11:32 PM
    davidmcbeth3
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    I'm not great on RADAR nuances (although an expert on the theory) but the cop never says he measured you...he just says his display read 38 MPH, its not really "tied" to your vehicle's speed. Maybe it was the last reading, who knows.
  • 03-15-2012, 08:34 AM
    Speedy Gonzalez
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    The officer does not state the patrol vehicle's direction of travel or speed. Nor does he state WHICH antenna was in use, nor does he state whether the speedo and display for patrol speed were consistent. Without this information it is impossible to determine if the unit being placed in MOVING mode was appropriate because the patrol vehicle could have been stationary at the time the measurement was obtained. Nor is it possible to determine if the officer was even in a location where he could obtain a proper speed reading. For all we know he could have been travelling perpendicular to your direction of travel or had the wrong antenna in use and measured a different vehicle's speed.
  • 03-15-2012, 03:56 PM
    davidmcbeth3
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket - Washington State (Spokane County)
    From your first post:

    .........When I first told me his laser caught me doing 38 mph..........

    Now i see RADAR....just something curious.

    Asking to see the LIDAR range would be be applicable if RADAR was used (RADAR does not use a range).
  • 03-16-2012, 09:08 AM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    Thanks @Speedy! What do you think my chances for dismissal are with this argument and how exactly should I phrase it to the judge?
  • 03-19-2012, 09:34 PM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    I'm going to court Wednesday morning and was just drafting my motion to dismiss. Any feedback on this? I was planning to open with this so I can hopefully/maybe keep open the option to mitigate the ticket or defer:

    "Your honor, I would like to determine if I can make a motion before we begin my contested hearing and keep the options to mitigate or defer on the table." (Found this in another thread, with thanks to @Speedy)

    Even if the judge says I cannot make this motion before the hearing starts, I will probably still choose to contest. Here's what I plan to say:

    "Your honor, I move to dismiss for lack of evidence. The officer does not state the patrol vehicle's direction of travel or speed. Nor does he state WHICH antenna was in use, or whether the speedometer and display for patrol speed were consistent. Without this information it is impossible to determine if the unit being placed in MOVING mode was appropriate because the patrol vehicle could have been stationary at the time the measurement was obtained. It is also not possible to determine if the officer was in a location where he could obtain a proper speed reading and whether he used the correct antenna."

    Does that sound like a sound argument?

    If this fails, and I still have a chance to mitigate or defer, what can I say to the judge that will help me, other than that this is a first-time offense for me?
  • 03-19-2012, 10:06 PM
    BrendanjKeegan
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    I think your motion is great. You should receive a dismissal.
  • 03-19-2012, 10:51 PM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    Thanks, Brendan. I sure hope this works! I will let you know the results on Wednesday.
  • 03-19-2012, 11:30 PM
    Speedy Gonzalez
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    Quote:

    Quoting notmybestweek
    View Post
    If this fails, and I still have a chance to mitigate or defer, what can I say to the judge that will help me, other than that this is a first-time offense for me?

    Some make you explain yourself, some don't. I wouldn't sweat it too much. Something like, "I made a judgment error on what my actual speed was. This is my first ticket ever" should be sufficient.
  • 03-20-2012, 09:50 PM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    One last question: I was just reading the back of my hearing notice and it looks like if the judge doesn't dismiss the case, I may have to pay court fees in addition to the original fine. Do they normally impose court fees in traffic cases?
  • 03-20-2012, 10:34 PM
    Speedy Gonzalez
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    Yup. But, it's all included in the fine that you have to pay. If you look up the "actual" penalty you are in for a surprise. Court cost usually doubles or triples the price of the penalty.
  • 03-20-2012, 10:44 PM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    So you're paying court fees even if you don't fight the ticket but just go ahead and pay the fine? Good to know...
  • 03-20-2012, 10:50 PM
    Speedy Gonzalez
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    That would be correct.
  • 03-21-2012, 10:47 AM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    I'm sorry to report that contesting my ticket turned out to be a waste of time. The judge was not receptive to me making a motion prior to making a decision whether to contest or mitigate. So I chose to contest and presented my motion to dismiss. He basically said that he could not make any judgments on whether or not the equipment was being operated under the right conditions. From what he told me, it sounds like if I had been able to quote from the equipment user manual or if there had been a radar technician there who could have testified that the lack of information provided by the officer could have made a difference in terms of whether the speed reading was accurate or not, he might have dismissed, but in this case he didn't. So I'm going to have to pay the ticket... Thank you to everyone who weighed in and tried to help.
  • 03-21-2012, 10:57 AM
    davidmcbeth3
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    Quote:

    Quoting notmybestweek
    View Post
    I'm sorry to report that contesting my ticket turned out to be a waste of time. The judge was not receptive to me making a motion prior to making a decision whether to contest or mitigate. So I chose to contest and presented my motion to dismiss. He basically said that he could not make any judgments on whether or not the equipment was being operated under the right conditions. From what he told me, it sounds like if I had been able to quote from the equipment user manual or if there had been a radar technician there who could have testified that the lack of information provided by the officer could have made a difference in terms of whether the speed reading was accurate or not, he might have dismissed, but in this case he didn't. So I'm going to have to pay the ticket... Thank you to everyone who weighed in and tried to help.

    You are not an expert .. so I can see the judge's viewpoint (it was the correct ruling) if you are arguing that the measurement was not taken correctly (and I have posted this aspect 100x on this forum). However, if the cop did not say he used manufacturer's recommended methods during his measurement process then this, I see as an issue, as the state carries the burden of showing that it was done properly.

    It appears as if you did your best with what you had .... so that's a victory in itself.
  • 03-21-2012, 05:33 PM
    Speedy Gonzalez
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    That judge committed a travesty of justice.
  • 03-21-2012, 06:40 PM
    notmybestweek
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    I was one of the last ones there, and the only non-lawyer to present a motion. Honestly, from the way he responded I think it put him off (He probably thought something like, "There you have it: another one of those snotty brats trying to weasel themselves out of a ticket with help from the world wide web"). In the hour and a half that I sat there, I only saw one case dismissed: a parking ticket received by someone who had photos that showed the lack of no parking sign. Even the few people who were represented by a lawyer ended up mitigating or deferring rather than contesting. One of the lawyers moved to dismiss because there was no prosecutor present, which didn't fly. A few people asked the judge about changing from a moving to a nonmoving violation, which he said he didn't have the authority to do. Everyone else just took the standard 20% reduction of their fine or tried unsuccessfully to contest their ticket.
  • 03-21-2012, 08:06 PM
    Speedy Gonzalez
    Re: First-Time Speeding Ticket in Washington State
    What court was this, so I can avoid it like the plague?
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page
Page 1 of 2 1 2 Next LastLast
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:35 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.4
Copyright © 2023 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2004 - 2018 ExpertLaw.com, All Rights Reserved