Christmas Visit With Long Distance Between Homes

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: tx
My decree was in Texas, and me and the child have lived in Louisiana for more than a year and a half. My ex husband has not seen my daughter in four years. He wants to come pick her up for his xmas visitation this year. He has standard possesion w/ parents who reside more than 100 miles apart. The order says for parents who reside more than 100 miles apart... then talks about weekends. then after weekends it says. "For Holidays unaffected by distance:" Christmas in odd numbered years I get to have her. He gets to pick her up at 12:00pm dec. 26. Then I have to pick her up at 6pm the day before school resumes. If I deny him visitation because he lives in a different state could he still file contempt charges on me? Since there is so much distance between us (800 miles round trip) then wouldnt every holiday be affected by distance thus he wouldnt have holiday visitations, untill this order is modified?

there are major concerns for the childs safety and well being and letting her go on this visit will put her in imeadiate physical and mental danger. There are two amicus attorneys asigned to the case and I met with them last week and they said they would get something in court to protect her for these visits before xmas. But that is less than a week away and Im getting worried. The amicus attorneys told me they cannot tell me to not follow the court orders but then also told me if I let her go and something happens to her I could be charged with endangerment to the child. They told me that I should do everything I can not to let him pick her up. They told me to get a civil assist when he comes to pick her up and get the cop to talk him out of taking her so it wouldnt be me denying the order. I dont know what to do. I love my little girl so much. On one hand Im being told to follow the court order on the other they are telling me not to and then also telling me that if she gets hurt then they will charge me with child endangerment. What am I to do?? I have a lawyer, and there are amicus attorneys assigned and everybody knows the danger my child faces in going with him, but yet there is all this legal bull crap that is involved.

I cant pick her up until 6pm which means I will not get her home until almost midnight on a school and work night. Wouldnt this be the "distance effect" on the holiday visit?

If you want to prevent your ex- from seeing his child, I suggest taking your order to a family lawyer, having it read in its entirety, and being advised based upon the full facts and content of the order. If you believe the order needs to be amended due to possible danger to your child, you can hire a lawyer to bring a motion seeking that amendment of the order and prove in court that it is necessary.

I do have a lawyer and the amendment is going to be made, but the judge didnt hear on the temp orders because he wanted the amicus attorney involved for that. thats what I meant by legal crap. Im doing everything I can legally. I have a lawyer and 2 amicus attorneys.

And Im sorry if Im taking you wrong but Im not trying to prevent my ex from seeing her. Im not one of those parents that lets my anger get in the way of what is best for my child. I know what kind of horrible things my ex has done and what kind of person he is, regardless he is still the father of my child, but just as my child has the right to know and have a relationship with him she also has the right to be safe and not abused... so I thought anyway.

If you're implying that there are circumstances that ALWAYS made the father a danger to the child, then those issues should have been brought up with the INITIAL order was issued. If the reason for your safety concern relates to things that have happened SINCE the order was issued, then the court is going to REALLY wonder why you never modified the order over the multiple years since dad saw the child, until NOW, when dad WANTS to see the child. What possible circumstances lead you, and more importantly would lead a judge, to think that the child will be " in imeadiate physical and mental danger"? Details matter and can greatly impact the potential for things to be done on an "emergency" basis.

Well for one the father HASNT been seeing the child for years. She is now six years old. He has showed no interest in having a relationship with her for four years. And yes your right I should of had it modified, but as im sure you have all heard before the issue of money. He has been hiding from me to aviod paying child support. Well they found him and now he not only wants to see her he wants full custody. He is claiming I have been denying him his visits, I've been to court on contempt for that and was found not guilty.

My concerns are:
The lack of a relationship with daughter.
He has long history of drug use.
Long history of violent crimes.
Manipulating daughters conversations with him into negitive things about me and the life I give her
Still doesnt exersize all his visits
He has run off with all of his kids

I have seen him do things to his current son he has custody of that is child abuse. ( I reported this to CPS) They said they couldnt get in touch with him. Picking him up by his throat yelling at him when he was 5.


Well regardless, my daughter doesnt know about the abuse I suffered either. Looks as though dad is going to be picking her up after xmas and all I can do is make her feel most comfortable about it and be there for her when she needs.

I guess most of all I was raped, sexually abuse, humilitated, beaten, and controled for years by this man. I am lucky I got away from that alive, and I just dont want my daughter to have to experience any of that side of her father. I am mostly scared of him getting full custody. I havnt done anything wrong and Im not a bad mother, dont do drugs, and I work to provide. But Im just afraid he will coach her into saying something bad about me on tape or something. He's done it before.

I have talked with daughter about the visit and she seems excited to go see his house. She hasnt spent time with him in four years but I have told her about him and showed her pictures so I hope it will help cause I dont have a legal leg to stand on at this point.

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Quoting worriedmommy

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Well for one the father HASNT been seeing the child for years. She is now six years old. He has showed no interest in having a relationship with her for four years. And yes your right I should of had it modified, but as im sure you have all heard before the issue of money. He has been hiding from me to aviod paying child support. Well they found him and now he not only wants to see her he wants full custody.

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That dynamic is as common as the sunrise; dads who haven't shown any interest in their children suddenly wanting a lot, including full custody, the minute they are found and they realize that they're going to be paying child support. Don't worry. Courts are VERY familiar with this dynamic. He's not getting full custody.

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He is claiming I have been denying him his visits,

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He can claim whatever he wants. The burden is on HIM to prove the the court that (a) he has been attempting to exercise his custody (ie actually showing up to pick up the child) and (b) that you have refused or interferred with that happening.

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I've been to court on contempt for that and was found not guilty.

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See? He couldn't prove it.

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My concerns are: The lack of a relationship with daughter.

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Unless he starts building one, the lack will remain. He WILL have the court's support on this UNLESS he's proven to be a danger.

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He has long history of drug use.

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How long a history? What drugs? Any drug convictions on his criminal history? If we're talking smoking pot here and there, not a big deal to the court. If he's making and selling meth out of his house, different story. Any DUI convictions?

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Long history of violent crimes.

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Arrests? Convictions? Did intervention by police and the courts result in things like anger management counseling, domestic violence counseling, drug or alcohol treatment? Hopefully you understand that any crimes that went unreported don't exist as far as the courts are concerned (which is why those of us in the domestic violence field jump up and down and scream until we're blue in the face that these crimes must be reported, AND followed through, by victims - otherwise they mean NOTHING in the future, in court, in child custody cases, etc.).

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Manipulating daughters conversations with him into negitive things about me and the life I give her

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Best you're going to do here is keep being the mom you've been - the child knows the life she leads.

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Still doesnt exersize all his visits

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Visitation is a right, not a requirement. Even if he hasn't visited for a long time, it's still his right to do so. I agree that it's confusing for and can be hard on the child, but as the father of this child, he's got rights and wide discretion in how and when to exercise them. Hopefully if he's showing an interest, even though only sparked by child support, he'll get to know his child and see what a great kid she is - then maybe he'll want to be involved because he actually loves her, and not for the alterior motive of messing with you because of the child support issue.

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He has run off with all of his kids

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Run off, meaning?

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I have seen him do things to his current son he has custody of that is child abuse. ( I reported this to CPS) They said they couldnt get in touch with him. Picking him up by his throat yelling at him when he was 5.

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After that report, did you seek to modify custody or request supervised visitation? (Which CAN be done without an attorney. Better to have one, but the family courts see more pro se litigants than any other area of law, and judges get it that many stuggling families can't afford attorney fees and tend to be receptive to such petitions. If dad retained an attorney in response, things could get sticky for you, but that's a bridge you'd have to cross once you got there.)

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Well regardless, my daughter doesnt know about the abuse I suffered either.

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She doesn't have the same relationship with her father that you did, and while it's normal to think that because he was violent with you that he'd be violent with her, his violence with you occurred for adult reasons and within the dynamics of your adult relationship. If the implication is that he's violent with EVERYONE, then there should be plenty of criminal history and arrest records to back up a request for supervised visitation.

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Looks as though dad is going to be picking her up after xmas and all I can do is make her feel most comfortable about it and be there for her when she needs.

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One of the most realistic and mature responses we've seen here. Keep being that positive influence, your child will benefit greatly.

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I guess most of all I was raped, sexually abuse, humilitated, beaten, and controled for years by this man.

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Police reports? Convictions? Were these things brought up when visitation was initially sought? I understand that these things were horrible for you, and you've every reason under the sun (and probably a few under the moon) to have fear and reservations about him....however, with that said, his relationship with his child is on a completely different level, and what the court would look for are things that would make him a danger to a child - such as the CPS report you mentioned above. The problem is that anyone can accuse anyone else of anything. Without there having been multiple reports, some substantiated issue, a criminal charge (or even better a conviction) or something other than an accusation, the court really has little to nothing to act upon that reaches the level of interfering with his constitional rights regarding parenting of his child. If you want to do your daughter the greatest service that you can, then teach her about healthy relationships, so that she doesn't grow up to spend years of her own life being abused in a similar fashion. Make absolutely certain that by the time she's old enough to have children of her own, that she understands that once she gets pregnant, she's likely to be bound to that person for 18 years, so the choices of who she sleeps with and whose children she bears are among the most important decisions she'll ever make in life. You can't go back in time and alter those things for her, but as her mom you have great influence in the standards she sets and the treatment that she will tolerate from others. You stayed in an abusive relationship for years. You know what it looks like. Teach your daughter how to recognize and avoid such relationships, and how to get out of them QUICKLY should she ever find herself in one.

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I am lucky I got away from that alive, and I just dont want my daughter to have to experience any of that side of her father.

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She's stuck with the father that was chosen. He'll be allowed to be father until and unless the court has reason to interfere with his rights. Be watchful. Not intrusive. Not manipulative. But watchful. Document any problems or issues. If any level of abuse rears its head, it needs to be reported immediately. Start by reporting to police, and let THEM bring in CPS if necessary (police reports are easy to get, CPS documentation isn't, so start with police if intervention is needed). If you need to go back to court, do so, whether you have to max out your credit cards, beg, borrow, pawn stuff, or even represent yourself. Documenting and bringing issues before the court is the way to get things changed and to access protective measures, such as asking the court to make visitation supervised.

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I am mostly scared of him getting full custody.

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Not gonna happen. You've been the child's primary caretaker. That has more weight than any other factor that a court considers in custody issues. Unless a court finds you legally unfit (which is a HUGE hurdle), or unless you agree to it, the court isn't going to give a largely absent parent primary custody.

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I havnt done anything wrong and Im not a bad mother, dont do drugs, and I work to provide. But Im just afraid he will coach her into saying something bad about me on tape or something. He's done it before.

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Again, statements are only a small portion of the issue. You saw how successful his statements about contempt over visitation worked out for him, right? Why? Because he couldn't prove his statements. There's nothing the child could say that is going to alter custody and cause a court to hand the child over to dad. The types of things that WOULD cause such a move by the court are things that would entail a LOT of documentation (ie the child is living knee-deep in cat crap, hasn't eaten in 3 days, has been beaten, was found left alone at home playing with a handgun or trying to stick forks into electrical sockets, got a STD because she was being forces to work as a prostitute, etc.).

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I have talked with daughter about the visit and she seems excited to go see his house. She hasnt spent time with him in four years but I have told her about him and showed her pictures so I hope it will help cause I dont have a legal leg to stand on at this point.

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Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. You already know that dad knows how to play the "hey judge, she's interfering with my visitation" card. Don't give him any ammo to try to play that card again (honestly, you don't need the stress), instead, concentrate equally on working to support the father/daughter relationship, and keeping an eye on anything amiss. Dad hasn't spent a lot of time with his child, and hasn't, at least recently, gotten to see how magical ones kids can be. See how things go with a few visits.

Yes he has convictions, marajuana and illegal possesion of weapon. He spent 8 years in prison, for aggravated burglery. Also there are documents CPS has of sexual abuse with his first daughter. But all this was before our decree in 07. I got misrepresented with my divorce... I had no idea what I was agreeing to and I cant believe the courts went along with it. Found out today that the judge confirmed his visitation schedule wich is every other weeknd so now by court order I have to drive 800+ miles every other weeknd. My lawyer says to do what the amicus attorney said wich was do everything I could to not let him visit, they even told me to lie so he couldnt visit her. They told me if something happens then I could be charged with endangerment to child. But then they also said they would file something to protect her, but also found out today they went to court last week and wasnt able to change anything in the order. I feel like I am loosing in court, I dont understand why the court would put such a burden on me and my child. Then on top of it all he still isnt paying child support, but the court dont seem to care about that. Im scared to do what the amicus attorney said because what if I do and then I get in trouble for contempt of court??? I dont want to loose my baby!!

I do know he physically abused both of his other kids. CPS reports in both cases. Sexually abused his first daughter. He is one of those men that think women are suposed to be mens slaves and if not they should be beaten. But then again it was all before our decree. My lawyer adviced me to make this agreement with him... that was some very very bad advice!! It never went to trial before if it would have we wouldnt be doing this court thing right now.

thank you for your help... seriously just to have somebody talk to me about this helps... and I dont mind being told if Im doing something wrong either. I just want whats best for my daughter and easiest on all partys and not just one. He has the money to take that trip every other weekend but not to pay child support.

Sigh - I think you were initially given horrific advice in your divorce, and I don't like that you're now being told to lie to Dad in order to actively thwart his attempts at being a parent.

Everything that happened prior to the divorce is now, honestly, irrelevant. Those admittedly worrying facts should have been dealt with at that time; I do not believe they can be raised at this point.

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Quoting worriedmommy

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Yes he has convictions, marajuana and illegal possesion of weapon. He spent 8 years in prison, for aggravated burglery.

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Not good things, but these typically won't impact visitation.

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Also there are documents CPS has of sexual abuse with his first daughter.

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THAT is different! THAT has direct implications for the child's safety. The important part is whether or not there was a conviction.

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But all this was before our decree in 07. I got misrepresented with my divorce... I had no idea what I was agreeing to and I cant believe the courts went along with it.

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Despite many who complain that the government is overly involved in our lives, the American court system really does take a hands off approach - the courts assume that people are competent to make their own decisions, that people are prepared to face the consequences of their decisions, and that people have the freedom to determine for themselves and their children what is best, so long as those decisions don't impede someone else's rights. The courts aren't there to force what is best or right on people (boy, wouldn't THAT be nice!) but rather to ensure that both sides have equal access to the processes involved and the ability to exercise their rights. That's why even when a room full of experts tell a judge that over the long term, their professional opinion is that being around dad would have negative impact on a child, that parent's rights outweigh "negative impact". It really takes outrageous, direct, and proven action against the child before those parental rights get impeeded. In other words, the court assumes that if something needed to be fought against in a custody case, that one side would fight for it, or, that an outside entitiy such as child services would do so. When there is agreement on both sides, and no intervention from outside, the court is typically willing to bless whatever that agreement amounts to.

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Found out today that the judge confirmed his visitation schedule wich is every other weeknd so now by court order I have to drive 800+ miles every other weeknd.

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Yeah, that's got to stop. Generally, whichever party created the distance is the party that the court will order to pick up the tab and be responsible for transportation. Getting this part hammered out should be (relatively) easy once the matter gets addressed in front of the judge.

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My lawyer says to do what the amicus attorney said wich was do everything I could to not let him visit, they even told me to lie so he couldnt visit her. They told me if something happens then I could be charged with endangerment to child.

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Could? Probably. Chances that a prosecutor that would make that charge, when there's a valid court order for visitation in place? About nil.

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But then they also said they would file something to protect her, but also found out today they went to court last week and wasnt able to change anything in the order.

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Without hearing what BOTH sides said to the court, hard to tell WHY nothing was changed or suggest a new or different strategy.

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I feel like I am loosing in court, I dont understand why the court would put such a burden on me and my child. Then on top of it all he still isnt paying child support, but the court dont seem to care about that.

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And the court won't care about that. Not until a motion for contempt is brought. Visitation and child support are two completely separate legal problems. The courts are not PROactive - they don't look for problems to address or address them just because they are aware of them. Rather, they are REactive, responding to issues that are specifically brought to the court by a petitioner - who lays out what the problem is, and then says "here's what I'm asking the court to do about it". The court then orders or denys the request. The way to deal with a parent who doesn't pay child support is to bring a motion before the court that has jurisdiction and ask the court to have the non-paying parent found in contempt. It sounds however that now that child support enforcement has found him, that they've started collecting support, is that correct?

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Im scared to do what the amicus attorney said because what if I do and then I get in trouble for contempt of court???

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Generally speaking, court orders are to be obeyed at all costs. However, within the law, nothing applies 100% of the time. Yes, failure to allow visitation COULD result in you being found in contempt. But the reality is that most contempt cases are dealt with by the judge sayin "don't do that again". On the second or third time, the judge will shake a finger harshly and say "don't do it again". The 5th and 6th time, the judge will shake that finger and bellow "and I MEAN it". Long story short...contempt of court is bad. It's something that one should try to avoid. Forest Gump might say that judges are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get. But MOST aren't going to do more than raise an eyebrow and say "cool it" for a first contempt charge. And, as in all things, an attorney who is knowledgeable about ALL the aspects of your case, and who practices every within the specific court system that will hear your case, is in the best position to offer the best overall advice for your particular situation. Given the nature of the types of cases and issues that the amicus attorneys help with, it's entirely possible that they know that the court or judge in question it likely to not sqwak about a first time contempt covering 800 miles to a father who hasn't seen the child in 4 years. We volunteers here would be remiss to tell you that it's ok to disreagard a court's order, even with very good reason, but we cannot debate that getting that advice from attorneys familiar with your case and the courts in question may be very sound advice for your particular circumstances.

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I dont want to loose my baby!!

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That's nowhere near happening. Even with a half a dozen or so flagrant contempts, the court isn't going to rip the child away from the only parent they've really known and turn her over to a relative stranger. Just as the courts don't cut dad off from visitation even if he's in contempt by not paying child support. If it develops into a pattern of behavior, AND dad works hard over a period of time and there are multiple violations without extenuating circumstances (which you've got by the busload), then a court might start to consider a change. But at this point, unless you get hit by a bus, the child isn't going anywhere.

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I do know he physically abused both of his other kids. CPS reports in both cases. Sexually abused his first daughter. He is one of those men that think women are suposed to be mens slaves and if not they should be beaten. But then again it was all before our decree. My lawyer adviced me to make this agreement with him... that was some very very bad advice!! It never went to trial before if it would have we wouldnt be doing this court thing right now.

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Yep. That's why reporting and documenting abuse issues, for both adults AND children is SO very important. Would be interesting to know why it never went to trial. Had a prosecutor found enough probable cause to bring the case to court, even if there wasn't a conviction, it would have lent a BIG support for your concerns about the child's safety. On the plus side, the amicus attorney appears to be well aware of the situation and seems to share your concerns - so let them keep fighting the fight. It's never over quickly, and custody/visitation issues are like slowly bleeding under your fingernails, but stick with it.

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thank you for your help... seriously just to have somebody talk to me about this helps...

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Yep. Being able to bounce ideas off of total strangers has it's plus side =)

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and I dont mind being told if Im doing something wrong either. I just want whats best for my daughter and easiest on all partys

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That's where things get hinkey. Best and easiest are often very FAR apart - and there are competing interests. What is easier for WHO? What is best for WHO? Sometimes best for the child is harder on both sides. Sometimes best for one's self is harder on the child. It's a delicate balancing act, made harder by the fact that adjustments (aka modifications) to court orders don't happen as fast as the real world changes. If given a choice, I'm usually of the mind that easier on the child is better ... she'll have enough challenges growing up. But neither can you throw yourself down as a martyr - your child needs you to be strong - and that means taking good care of yourself too. Keep working to find balance.

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He has the money to take that trip every other weekend but not to pay child support.

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Yep, gotta follow up on that support. What the current status?

The sexual abuse allegation (was there a conviction?) may not be an issue at all, in all honesty. Dad was awarded visitation AFTER this occurred. If it was a concern at the time, it should have been raised.

(I'm sorry - I'd be terrifically concerned, too, but I'm just not convinced the court will consider it a huge issue as of this moment in time since it was never raised. I'm also not convinced that the amicus attorney is guiding the OP in the right direction by scaring her into thinking that if she sends the child and something did happen, that she will be charged with child endangerment).