I Was Banned from a Casino, Not Given Any Valid Reason Why

My question involves injury or loss that occurred in the state of: Pennsylvania

At about 3:00 PM on Wednesday November 30, 2011, I received a call from a local casino that I frequent. The caller identified himself as the Casino Security Manager for the. He informed me that the purpose of his call was to notify me that effective immediately, I was banned from ever entering the Casino property for life. He went on to say that he was calling me to "avoid my causing a scene when I came to the casino" when they notify me of this. I responded to the Security Manager that I have never "caused any scene" or acted disorderly at the casino at any of my visits and that I was offended that he would suggest that I would act in this sort of fashion when I have never done so. I went on to inquire as to why I was being banned, and he said that it was because I had requested too many "comps", and that I had e-mailed the owner of the casino - discussing my poor gaming experiences, and that because I had contacted the Gaming Control Board. He said that he would be mailing me a letter today with these reasons as to coming to their "property decision". When I asked him who made this decision, he said that it was his decision. I informed him that this call took me by complete surprise and that I had never heard of something like this happening to any patron. I told him that I might contact the owner again about this to inquire as to why they were doing this to me, and he threatened me if I were to do that. I advised the Security Manager that I would be seeking the advise of an attorney for recourse as I feel that I am being slandered, discriminated against, and being banned for simply asking questions, or raising concerns, which is well within my right to do so. I also said that I would contact the media about this as well. When I told him this, he immediately froze and said that because I threatened the casino with a lawsuit, he would not make any further comments and that our conversation would conclude.

Not only am I disabled, and has this impacted my disability, this has been extremely embarrassing and upsetting. I did nothing wrong to warrant the casino to do this to me. Any insights would be very much appreciated.

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I did nothing wrong to warrant the casino to do this to me.

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they don't need a reason to ban you. So now, unless you can prove they banned you due to some protected class, you have no claim against them.

This is a major part of my issue. My disability is panic and anxiety disorder, with agoraphobia. I have been under the care of a doctor, and the casino was one of the first public places that I began going to to "get back out into life". This ban will greatly affect my progress of recovering from my condition. I have become friends with the VIP hosts, and each of them know of my disability, and that being able to get back out has been a major part of my becoming more mobile.

And this casino happens to be a public place. By that token, even Pennsylvania State Lottery terminals are in several locations throughout the casino. I know of no other casinos that have state lottery tickets for sale on/in their properties. I've never heard of a person being banned for no apparent reason. I've been a good patron, and have spent a good deal of money. To be treated like this is absolutely unacceptable.

It would appear that they casino has given you a reason. You might not like the reason, but they did give you a reason. It's not an illegal reason, either.

You would have a very difficult time, in my opinion, proving that the ban was directly related to your disability.

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wrm1973;573405]This is a major part of my issue. My disability is panic and anxiety disorder, with agoraphobia. I have been under the care of a doctor, and the casino was one of the first public places that I began going to to "get back out into life". This ban will greatly affect my progress of recovering from my condition. I have become friends with the VIP hosts, and each of them know of my disability, and that being able to get back out has been a major part of my becoming more mobile.

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It's great that you are working through your problems but they are not required aid you in your recovery. They run a business and if they deem you to be unwelcome for some reason, or no reason, it is their property and can do so.

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And this casino happens to be a public place.

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No, it isn't a public place. It is a private place open to the public. There is a big difference.

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By that token, even Pennsylvania State Lottery terminals are in several locations throughout the casino. I know of no other casinos that have state lottery tickets for sale on/in their properties.

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Not sure what that has to do with anything.

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I've never heard of a person being banned for no apparent reason.

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as dogmatique said, they gave you a reason:

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and he said that it was because I had requested too many "comps", and that I had e-mailed the owner of the casino - discussing my poor gaming experiences, and that because I had contacted the Gaming Control Board

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I've been a good patron, and have spent a good deal of money.

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ok

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To be treated like this is absolutely unacceptable.

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well, there is one thing you can do about it. It is the same thing every patron of a business can do if they feel mistreated:

spend your money somewhere else.

It's very interesting to see your replies, and they are appreciated. One thing I can do is contact the media about this to raise awareness to other patrons. This casino has sent me promotional offers, letters that read "we just want you to know you are only 2,000 points away from our top tier player reward program", etc. The fact that the casino has done this is nothing short of discriminatory abuse. And while I am disabled, and the staff is well aware of this, we will see how this transpires. I feel completely violated, and have NEVER heard of something like this happening to a casino patron. Maybe a person who has been under the influence, causing trouble, etc. But not something like this.

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Quoting wrm1973

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It's very interesting to see your replies, and they are appreciated. One thing I can do is contact the media about this to raise awareness to other patrons. This casino has sent me promotional offers, letters that read "we just want you to know you are only 2,000 points away from our top tier player reward program", etc. The fact that the casino has done this is nothing short of discriminatory abuse. And while I am disabled, and the staff is well aware of this, we will see how this transpires. I feel completely violated, and have NEVER heard of something like this happening to a casino patron. Maybe a person who has been under the influence, causing trouble, etc. But not something like this.

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I see your viewpoint but the other posters are correct in the advice given. Sorry.

You are aware that casinos send promos to anybody they get contact info from right?

Casino patrons are escorted out and told not to return all the time for various reasons.

There was no discrimination or abuse in your case, except abuse they perceive on your part. They see you as a troublemaker. You whined to the owner because you lost/otherwise didn't enjoy yourself (Did you speak to anyone before jumping up the ladder?). That was probably also the reason you contacted the Gaming Control Board. You begging for comps probably didn't help.

You are not being banned due to your disability so that is a non-starter.

Just about any company will stop talking to you once you say the word "lawyer" or "sue" and only allow their legal department to handle your contacts after that.

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Quoting free9man

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You are aware that casinos send promos to anybody they get contact info from right?

Casino patrons are escorted out and told not to return all the time for various reasons.

There was no discrimination or abuse in your case, except abuse they perceive on your part. They see you as a troublemaker. You whined to the owner because you lost/otherwise didn't enjoy yourself (Did you speak to anyone before jumping up the ladder?). That was probably also the reason you contacted the Gaming Control Board. You begging for comps probably didn't help.

You are not being banned due to your disability so that is a non-starter.

Just about any company will stop talking to you once you say the word "lawyer" or "sue" and only allow their legal department to handle your contacts after that.

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Agree completely with this.

(Fwiw, I live in a somewhat casino-heavy area of WA. They are INCREDIBLY well protected, legally speaking and many - if not most - casinos are under the jurisdiction of Tribal Law which only further complicates things!)

Again, we will see how this goes. I have several contacts with two large media outlets here, and I am going to be discussing this situation with them to raise awareness of what happened to me. To say that casinos can "do whatever they want" is what is completely false. As a patron, you are free to do as you wish if you are having a continued poor experience. The fact that I went to the owner was something that more people should do. Having industry experience, we NEVER refer to our clientele as "whiners". The problem in Pennsylvania is there is no competition. Casinos here seem to think they have a blank check, and can set their own rules. Sorry, it doesn't work that way - in any business. I will sue this casino, mark my words.

Okey dokey.

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Quoting wrm1973

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I will sue this casino, mark my words.

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And you will lose. Unless they give you a pittance to go away but I wouldn't count on that. You have not described anything in your posts that is legally actionable, much less winnable.

Since you have "industry experience," you are also aware that this kind of rabble rousing could get you blacklisted from more casinos right? If you had any kind of industry experience, you would be well aware that the casino has done nothing illegal.

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Quoting wrm1973

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Casinos here seem to think they have a blank check, and can set their own rules. Sorry, it doesn't work that way - in any business.

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That's exactly how it works as long as they are not violating the law, which you have given no evidence of. They may make any rules they wish so long as they obey applicable laws.

If you had been an employee, one might be able to make an argument that your banning was in retaliation for your complaint to the gaming commission. However, as a patron, you have no such special protection that I can find. They can ban you for any reason not prohibited by law.

Out of interest, ARE we talking about Tribal Law here?

@Free, I disagree with you, 100%. My industry experience is from California. The Native casinos rarely have any issues like this, as they know that the clientele is number one - period. As I've said, Pennsylvania is different - MUCH different than any other state in terms of practices. If I went on the 6 o'clock news with this story, can you imagine how other patrons would view this? Again, I've spent thousands, was a VIP player, and I was dumped for asking for some comps!? Do a random sample of 100 people and see what you come up with, and I'd be willing to bet (no pun intended) that 90 people would view the casino in a very negative way. You don't ban a person for asking for a couple of comps. You also don't ban a person for filing a complaint with the PGCB. You certainly don't ban a patron for raising concerns and complaints to management about poor gaming experiences. That would be sending other players a very negative message. Banning a patron for life??? They're acting like I committed some heinous crime, which is certainly not the case. Again, media coverage on this would certainly be a good place to start, and share my experience with others. It's not a free-for-all as you suggest. There are rules that ALL businesses must follow, that is, if they wish to stay in business. I did nothing wrong to warrant their treatment! I will absolutely sue this casino, and I will win.

You will lose.

And end up paying their legal fees.

Be. Prepared.

My FAMILY live in the Pittsburgh 'burbs. And trust me, local media won't give a flying ferret fart. They just won't.

:)

@Dogmatique, No this is a casino in Pennsylvania, non-tribal. I used to work for a Native casino in San Diego... I know the rules & regs with the tribal casinos are very different than here in PA.

Uhhhh Yeahhh OK.

So, why don't you start by posting a link to the law that they violated?

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Quoting wrm1973

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@Dogmatique, No this is a casino in Pennsylvania, non-tribal. I used to work for a Native casino in San Diego... I know the rules & regs with the tribal casinos are very different than here in PA.

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You should answer cbg's question. ;)

@Dogmatique, Not true at all. I have a post on another forum, and a reporter from the Post Gazette responded with an interest to interview me about my experience.

@cbg, I will let you know tomorrow after I meet with my attorney. :)

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Quoting wrm1973

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It's not a free-for-all as you suggest. There are rules that ALL businesses must follow, that is, if they wish to stay in business.

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It is most assuredly a free-for-all unless they are in violation of the law. You have given ZERO evidence they have broken any law. Beyond that, they are free to have any rules they wish and ban anyone they wish so long as it is not in violation of a law. Those rules they must follow to stay in business are the laws/regulations they must follow and they have not broken any here. They banned you. Casinos are in the business of taking your money. They only stop taking someone's money when it is no longer a good business decision. There is obviously more to the story than you asking for comps, calling the GCB and going to the owner. You never answered my earlier question. Did you at least try and work it out at lower levels or did you just go over their heads? The house decided you were a bad bet and sent you packing. Move on.

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Quoting wrm1973

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I will absolutely sue this casino, and I will win.

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No, you will not.


Ahh...the customer is #1/always right argument. That is no longer a valid business maxim.

You may go on the news with this and they might display you in a positive light and the casino in a negative light. That will not necessarily get you back in. You should be concentrating on your recovery and seeking another venue to explore rather than fighting them for nothing.

You do that. ;)

@cbg (and maybe a couple of others): I predict...the OG Effect. :D :D

(And I'm not being mean here but...this is also the holiday season where they're trying to get rookie reporters out on the street getting experience. I'm just saying. )

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Quoting Dogmatique

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I predict...the OG Effect. :D :D

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Guess I'm still too new...what is the OG Effect?

@free; Again, will have to see what the attorney says tomorrow. Never say never. I just find it hard to believe that you folks can't see what they did as being such a sleazy move. I mean, really??

Do you think the casino would want this in the media, or in front of a jury? I'm thinking not. Casino patrons visit a casino for fun, a chance to win, etc. If they see a casino slighting a VIP PLAYER, can you imagine the image that's going to portray to other patrons? Come on now... from a patrons point of view, there is an ethical expectation that at least some part of the casino-patron relationship will be somewhat honest. What they did to me was anything but honest, insulting and I will do everything in my power to sue this casino.

@Dog, The Post Gazette doesn't hire rookies... it's one of the greatest news outlets in the country.

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Quoting wrm1973

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@free; Again, will have to see what the attorney says tomorrow. Never say never. I just find it hard to believe that you folks can't see what they did as being such a sleazy move. I mean, really??

Do you think the casino would want this in the media, or in front of a jury? I'm thinking not. Casino patrons visit a casino for fun, a chance to win, etc. If they see a casino slighting a VIP PLAYER, can you imagine the image that's going to portray to other patrons? Come on now... from a patrons point of view, there is an ethical expectation that at least some part of the casino-patron relationship will be somewhat honest. What they did to me was anything but honest, insulting and I will do everything in my power to sue this casino.

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Here's what you need to understand:

sleazy and unethical do NOT equate to "illegal".

But please let us know what the attorney says. And given that the attorney would likely not mind at all, please share the name of the attorney because I'm sure at least a couple of us wouldn't mind asking him/her questions of our own.

The OG effect occurs when, after being given an answer he does not like, a poster is suddenly somehow able to find an attorney who disagrees completely with the board, assures the poster that he has a winning case, and takes the case on contingency or even pro-bono. Often this attorney is reached after hours, on weekends, or even on holidays. (We had a three-fer this weekend on another board; it was after hours on Thanksgiving Saturday when this mythical attorney assured the poster of his winning case.) Amazingly enough, these easily accessible attorneys are able to overcome some of the other obstacles us lesser mortals face; one extreme example managed to win his case and gain a sizeable award for his client in less than six weeks without the statutorily required authorization from the regulatory agency that oversees the issue in question, despite the fact that all other such claims run between six months and two years to complete.

I agree that this poster is a prime candidate.

As I stated earlier, the only way you get a win on this is if they give you something to go away.

No one here has made any comment on the ethical/moral ramifications of what they did. We are only here to speak to the legality of it, which absent some evidence you have not shared, is 100% legal.

Sue away. You will lose.

I stand by my earlier comment that there is more to this story. A casino will not ban a source of income without a good reason. The comps probably are a small part of it. Bothering the owner, especially if you did not avail yourself of other remedies first (did you?), was another part of it. Calling the GCB was probably the final nail in the proverbial coffin.

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Quoting cbg

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The OG effect occurs when, after being given an answer he does not like, a poster is suddenly somehow able to find an attorney who disagrees completely with the board, assures the poster that he has a winning case, and takes the case on contingency or even pro-bono. Often this attorney is reached after hours, on weekends, or even on holidays. (We had a three-fer this weekend on another board; it was after hours on Thanksgiving Saturday when this mythical attorney assured the poster of his winning case.) Amazingly enough, these easily accessible attorneys are able to overcome some of the other obstacles us lesser mortals face; one extreme example managed to win his case and gain a sizeable award for his client in less than six weeks without the statutorily required authorization from the regulatory agency that oversees the issue in question, despite the fact that all other such claims run between six months and two years to complete.

I agree that this poster is a prime candidate.

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AND...

So many court hearings seem to take place during these holiday weekends!

Amazing, truly!

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Quoting cbg

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The OG effect occurs when, after being given an answer he does not like, a poster is suddenly somehow able to find an attorney who disagrees completely with the board, assures the poster that he has a winning case, and takes the case on contingency or even pro-bono. Often this attorney is reached after hours, on weekends, or even on holidays. (We had a three-fer this weekend on another board; it was after hours on Thanksgiving Saturday when this mythical attorney assured the poster of his winning case.) Amazingly enough, these easily accessible attorneys are able to overcome some of the other obstacles us lesser mortals face; one extreme example managed to win his case and gain a sizeable award for his client in less than six weeks without the statutorily required authorization from the regulatory agency that oversees the issue in question, despite the fact that all other such claims run between six months and two years to complete.

I agree that this poster is a prime candidate.

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Thanks! I've seen that here a few times but wasn't aware that it had its own name.

@cbg, No, my attorney and I have known one another for years. This has nothing to do with not liking your responses. I respect your points of view completely, although I disagree.

@free, I followed the regular chain of command. And I think this is where some of our differences might be clouded. From a gamblers point of view, if they did nothing wrong, and then to be banned from a casino that they have spent a fortune, that sets a stage for insult, and discrimination. I know nothing about the laws in PA, which is why I am meeting with my attorney tomorrow. I posted here to see what others thought, and unfortunately you all seem to think there was nothing illegal that transpired. I disagree. I will certainly post what I find out tomorrow. I do sincerely appreciate your guys input, even if we disagree.

Yeah, it may be insulting and insulting isn't actionable. It is NOT discriminatory or illegal. I hope you aren't paying much for that attorney cause it's money down the drain. The only lawyer who might take this, on your dime of course, is some shyster who will try to play your disability which had nothing to do with the ban.

Remember that if this goes to court or court of public opinion(media), the casino is likely to take the gloves off and start swinging. That means telling their side of the story, which may not be as flattering of you as you might hope.

@free, It will go to court and the court of public opinion. And if the casino takes its "gloves off", what can they say other than I requested comps when I had a lousy night, contacted the PGCB or casino management to voice my concerns? I've never drank at the casino, I dress well, I'm respectful and am well mannered. With respect to the casino taking off their gloves - "that's all folks". Me on the other hand, how will other patrons feel. The casino is well aware of the fact that this could open a pandoras box for others who feel the same way, which based on the ratings found online, there are MANY patrons who feel this way. That's like blackmail - "if you complain or ask for too many comps, or go to the PGCB, we'll ban you for life"... Patrons have the LEGAL right (without being persecuted or banned from the casino) to do exactly the same things I did.

I'm a casino patron from time to time. And trust me - you're actually making the casino's case for them, based upon what you're posting here tonight.

The casino is, very simply, going to say something along the lines of...

"We reserve the right to revoke privileges at any time".

Patrons don't have ANY inherent rights to remain in the casino.

I'm now getting the feeling that you're bored on a weekday night and this is either a homework question, or a trollfest.

One other thing. For every 10 disgruntled patrons? There are another 30 lining up to take your place.

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wrm1973;573495]@free, It will go to court

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I am not a gambling man. I am also willing to bet you that if you actually ever file suit, it will be dismissed at preliminary hearings. The reason I am willing to bet and I am not a gambler is because I know that is the furthest it will get. ergo; I am not gambling. It really is a sure thing.

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and the court of public opinion.

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I don't know why you think you have some special connection but the public isn't going to care. Those that don't like the casinos will continue to not like them and those that give their money to the casinos will keep on giving it.

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The casino is well aware of the fact that this could open a pandoras box for others who feel the same way, which based on the ratings found online, there are MANY patrons who feel this way.

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do you see them being financially harmed by those that feel that way? I don't.

That's like blackmail - "if you complain or ask for too many comps, or go to the PGCB, we'll ban you for life"...

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Patrons have the LEGAL right (without being persecuted or banned from the casino) to do exactly the same things I did.

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no, you don't.

You just don't get it. You are simply a little pimple on the ass of society. Not a threat but still a little pain in the ass. A little scrubbing and rubbing and you are gone.

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Quoting wrm1973

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Patrons have the LEGAL right (without being persecuted or banned from the casino) to do exactly the same things I did.

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Sure they do. And no one prevented you from doing what you did. But, I know of no law that protects you from the consequences of your otherwise lawful actions.

A store owner can ban a person from the store for reading the newspapers and not buying them ... for being suspected of shoplifting ... for having accompanied a shoplifter ... for dancing in the aisles ... for any of a host of reasons that did not involve criminal activity or even overtly disruptive behavior. The casino can likely do the same.

Assuming your attorney MIGHT be able to craft some sort of "Hail Mary" claim for damages against the casino, how much are you going to seek? Based on what damages? How much are you willing to spend on a roll of the dice? Have you availed yourself of any appeals process? Have you attempted to speak to the manager or someone else in authority at the casino? One cannot usually go straight to court without seeking to resolve the matter through due process first.

@jk, I really don't appreciate your last comment. Without people like me, casinos wouldn't exist - simple as that. Honestly, what a completely disrespectful and tasteless comment.

@cdw, Will see tomorrow what my attorney says. As I said, every time I have visited the casino, I was courteous, nicely dressed and well mannered. I've never caused the casino any trouble whatsoever. I simply requested to be comped when I had a bad gaming experience, voiced my concerns to management, etc.

@Dog, This is one of the worst economies since the great depression. I guarantee you when I go to the casino, I spend what amounts to 50 of their "average" players. Patrons like myself are not easily replaceable. Patrons do indeed have rights - I need to have them explained to me tomorrow with my attorney.

Oh yes you're replaceable.

And patrons do not have any inherent rights. PERIOD.

But please, do come back and tell us what happens. Please remember to ask your attorney which laws the casino has broken. Specifically. And again (partly because I have family local to my beloved Steelers' stomping ground), I'm sure the attorney won't mind if you share his/her name with us.

PM is fine if you don't feel comfortable posting it publicly. Mine are switched on and my in-box is not full.

@Dog; Every consumer has rights. I will let you know what he says tomorrow afternoon.

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Quoting wrm1973

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@Dog; Every consumer has rights. I will let you know what he says tomorrow afternoon.

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Please do.

And you're absolutely wrong. NO consumer - anywhere - has INHERENT rights. You need to perhaps Google those terms to understand what you're being told.