How to Get a Guardian ad Litem Replaced

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Wisconsin.

I am sure the GAL in my case does not protect the best interest of the child to say the least. Mostly though he just recently lied in open court, is this enough reason to have him replaced? How about his entry into the case 9 months before jurisdiction was decided? Do you just file a request with the judge to have another one assigned?

You need a lawyer.

You are free to bring a motion and to try to prove that the GAL lied, that the lie was intentional and material, that the GAL is prejudiced, and thus that the GAL should be replaced. Knowing none of the facts, I don't care to speculate about your chances of winning such a motion.

This OP has been told time and time again to obtain a lawyer. Not just here, but elsewhere, and for at least the past year or so.

He has not done so.

I WILL speculate. This OP is, once again, spinning. He knows this, and he's simply wasting time here.

well I took my time and Filed it today.....The GAL responded with hand delivered letter to the judge a few hours later,

I believe I have done a good thing as THe GAL was backed into a corner so to speak and now has told a story in his letter to the judge that does not match up to what the transcript from the hearing in question says nor what previous emails from him say....

So we shall see. I do have an investigator with the office of lawyer regulation working on what the Gal said as well started by grievance several weeks ago when The GAL showed his true colors in court

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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You need a lawyer.

You are free to bring a motion and to try to prove that the GAL lied, that the lie was intentional and material, that the GAL is prejudiced, and thus that the GAL should be replaced. Knowing none of the facts, I don't care to speculate about your chances of winning such a motion.

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The GAL was appointed and speaking at hearings before Jurisdiction was even decided as well and also was communicating with me and the ex unsolicted before jurisdiction was decided. Thats another issue though for appeal.
I believe the county i am litigating in is truly hoping this will go away because they dropped the ball so bad from the get go... The GAL included as we all know everybody in courthouses scratch each others backs....
Can I get A GAL assigned from another county so as to not conflict with the courts interest?

Oh le sigh.

how much Can I expect to give a decent atty for representation at final trial? limited appearance I believe. What is my best option? otr should I even spend the money on one at this point?

when a person files an affidavit in support of a motion for child support and list their home address as their parents house, which is not their home address does it have any bearing on an eventual child support order?
I figure if the ex is still living at her parents without her new husband she does not pay rent electric heating or water cost and food cost as well as daycare and clothing and all is a shared expense! between three of the childs co habitators

Income is income. Where you live isn't income.

Go right ahead and hire that lawyer. Any time now.

do they usually put child support orders in previous to paternity being established genetically? I didnt think they did that. Or much less set a court date before DNA comes back.
I thought normally support was figured out towards the end/final trial?

What "usually" happens is irrelevent. Your case is WAY beyond usual, which is why you keep hearing the same answer that you're going to get to ANY question you pose: GET A LAWYER. No matter WHAT the question is, THAT it the answer.

I prolly wont ever get a lawyer. If it comes down to how I present the facts or evidence in that I have and will continue to fail miserably, the argument I will bring forth in suit is that in an emergency situation (like my situation was in the beginning) a lawyer should be appointed to the petitioner to protect Fathers rights, Like a public defender for limited basis of the emergency being worked out.

On another note the GAL and atty both say (in letters) I am being difficult and dont understand the law or how a gal differs from an atty, I would have more faith in their posisition if they didnt try to defend their choices and statements in letters to the judge. IE: If i am so stupid and non understanding dont respond period as a Judge will see how stupid i am and non understanding of the law. ;)

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Quoting passiondad

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I prolly wont ever get a lawyer. If it comes down to how I present the facts or evidence in that I have and will continue to fail miserably, the argument I will bring forth in suit is that in an emergency situation (like my situation was in the beginning) a lawyer should be appointed to the petitioner to protect Fathers rights, Like a public defender for limited basis of the emergency being worked out.

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That's something you need to take up with your congresspeople. Not family court. You had every right to hire an attorney at the time - you chose not to do so. Not their problem.

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On another note the GAL and atty both say (in letters) I am being difficult and dont understand the law or how a gal differs from an atty, I would have more faith in their posisition if they didnt try to defend their choices and statements in letters to the judge. IE: If i am so stupid and non understanding dont respond period as a Judge will see how stupid i am and non understanding of the law. ;)

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It's not the judge's problem. You choose to represent yourself? You're held to the same standards as an attorney.

You know this.

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I prolly wont ever get a lawyer.

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If you can't BE an attorney, you'll need to HIRE an attorney. See how we keep coming back to that point? Without one, you're going nowhere. The child will already be 18 and you'll STILL be messing around.

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the argument I will bring forth in suit is that in an emergency situation (like my situation was in the beginning) a lawyer should be appointed to the petitioner to protect Fathers rights, Like a public defender for limited basis of the emergency being worked out.

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Doesn't work that way. After these YEARS, there's no emergency. If you'd have properly dealt with the emergency way back then, you wouldn't be where you are now, which is nowhere. "Emergency" isn't any part of the current case.

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a Judge will see how stupid i am and non understanding of the law

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Probably not stupid. But absolutely unwilling to grasp or accept that the ONLY hope you've had for quite a while would have been with an attorney, and now that your stubbornness has caused you to piss away so much time, which only strengthens the case of the custodial parent, even the best attorney may be of little help to you now. But at this point the case rests in someone ELSE's hands - either the attorney you hire to fight the right issues in the right way, or the people who DO understand the system, are incredibly frustrated with you, and are going to advise the judge that it's time to bounce this case and send you home empty handed.

You're so right, Catherine.

And again, the really sad part here is that he was initially in the right. It's a tragic example of how NOT to represent yourself. I honestly understand the frustration felt by his ex's attorneys and the GAL - as well as the judge. The absolute worse thing this OP should be doing (aside from representing himself) is making frivolous complaints against these people.

I'm guessing (well...I know, actually) that he's on the hook for the court costs associated with Florida. The last thing he needs is to get stuck with all of Mom's costs in Wisconsin.

Because at this juncture, they're going to be running WAY high.

To answer his other more recent question, here's the deal. OP, you're the child's legal father. Child support can be ordered at any time based on that alone.

1. I am not on the hook for atty cost in florida. when asked her atty there said "Oh NO! not another hearing, we wont be requesting cost"
2.Do the courts tell you when you file something frivilous?
3.i did file a response to the child support motion citing wis law that a husband of a mother who gives birth is the assumed father. Really i am legally not dad right now. we will see how the judge rules and see if he sets the date.....
i continue to write the atty and telling her im willing to settle for a graduated supervison schedule in home town turning into weekends after a 3 month period with a good reccomendation from the visitation center....

can I use one last name for a marriage certificate and another for court proceedings?
Can i tell a cop i live at this residence in this city and then file a motion/sworn affidavit 5 days later stating i live at a different residence in a different city when i never moved?
jus curious.
The reason i am upset with the gal is because he has admitted the child is confused and has allowed the mother to alienate the child by use of another male. He said specifically, "well she can live with whoever she wants thats her choice and it doesnt bother me" Well when ive alleged alienation taking place over the last year I think it totally matters......
NEWHOO im gonna contact the new husband and tell him the truth because if i know the ex, she is telling him "oh yeah the childs dad wants nothing to do with her and he is a bum in florida" he doesnt even know there is a full blown case going on, and wants to adopt in less than a year........SMH SMH I think any man with reason would take a step back and say "well ill let this play out first"

i know my ex well and I can say she will foul it up and continue to get caught in her lies and make new ones......its who she is! I just need to be cool and not screw myself .....
Then again we might all be surprised when paternity comes back

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Quoting aardvarc

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If you can't BE an attorney, you'll need to HIRE an attorney. See how we keep coming back to that point? Without one, you're going nowhere. The child will already be 18 and you'll STILL be messing around.

if I know MOM which I DO, she will always be a headache in this......She is like that, and I suppose thats my fate.......her posisition is to remove me as father, thats always gonna be tough when she has to bring kiddo for vists



Doesn't work that way. After these YEARS, there's no emergency. If you'd have properly dealt with the emergency way back then, you wouldn't be where you are now, which is nowhere. "Emergency" isn't any part of the current case.



Probably not stupid. But absolutely unwilling to grasp or accept that the ONLY hope you've had for quite a while would have been with an attorney, and now that your stubbornness has caused you to piss away so much time, which only strengthens the case of the custodial parent, even the best attorney may be of little help to you now. But at this point the case rests in someone ELSE's hands - either the attorney you hire to fight the right issues in the right way, or the people who DO understand the system, are incredibly frustrated with you, and are going to advise the judge that it's time to bounce this case and send you home empty handed.

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well her atty has said I am accusing the GAL of being a rubber stamp for her case......Well i agree when her atty is fighting for the GAL to stay on as well....lol comeone scratch each others backs some more

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Quoting passiondad

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1. I am not on the hook for atty cost in florida. when asked her atty there said "Oh NO! not another hearing, we wont be requesting cost"

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You didn't read what I actually wrote ;)

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2.Do the courts tell you when you file something frivilous?

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Not at the time of filing, no.

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3.i did file a response to the child support motion citing wis law that a husband of a mother who gives birth is the assumed father. Really i am legally not dad right now. we will see how the judge rules and see if he sets the date.....

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Yes, you're legally the father. Look at your own docket. Matter of BER, and all of that.

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i continue to write the atty and telling her im willing to settle for a graduated supervison schedule in home town turning into weekends after a 3 month period with a good reccomendation from the visitation center....

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Holy cow, you actually suggested something sensible! THIS is good!

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can I use one last name for a marriage certificate and another for court proceedings?

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You? What do you mean?

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Can i tell a cop i live at this residence in this city and then file a motion/sworn affidavit 5 days later stating i live at a different residence in a different city when i never moved?
jus curious.

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That's not related to family court. It just undermines your credibility (which, let's be honest, isn't too hot to begin with).

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The reason i am upset with the gal is because he has admitted the child is confused and has allowed the mother to alienate the child by use of another male. He said specifically, "well she can live with whoever she wants thats her choice and it doesnt bother me" Well when ive alleged alienation taking place over the last year I think it totally matters......

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It totally doesn't.

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NEWHOO im gonna contact the new husband and tell him the truth because if i know the ex, she is telling him "oh yeah the childs dad wants nothing to do with her and he is a bum in florida" he doesnt even know there is a full blown case going on, and wants to adopt in less than a year........SMH SMH I think any man with reason would take a step back and say "well ill let this play out first"

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Here's what's going to happen.

You contact the new husband. Your ex rolls her eyes, and uses this against you in family court (you're trying to undermine the family unit).

Can you see how this is going to play out? You don't think he's actually going to believe you, do you?

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i know my ex well and I can say she will foul it up and continue to get caught in her lies and make new ones......its who she is! I just need to be cool and not screw myself .....
Then again we might all be surprised when paternity comes back

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Too late for that, pumpkin.

And really - you need to make a decision here. If you want to be her father, ignore the paternity issue. If you don't? Walk away.

as a pro se litigant i am gonna suggest to myself get the paternity test done, jus to be absolutely sure cause the gut is squeaking.

Even Now I consider her "mine" but when being emotionally and financially and suppportively responsible for the next fourteen years, its worth knowing genectically with the history of mom.

woh. The gal is not dismissed. the trial is not adjourned. no answer on child sppt motion.

i understand the best I can hope for is a supervised visiting gradual schedule, which I hope takes place in cur4rent town of both father and daughter....

I will fight for graduation to 25% placement for muaw Dadddy within 1st year :)

I wont ever give up. Ill be sure to find a good woman myself from here on out! :) haha

You've changed your tune here, a little. Didn't you just claim that the court ORDERED a paternity test already?

Gotta keep your story straight, Johnny.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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You've changed your tune here, a little. Didn't you just claim that the court ORDERED a paternity test already?

Gotta keep your story straight, Johnny.

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Yeah they did, I phrased that wrong! my bad!


New question! How do i get out of going to trial? from what you know could mom have a chance of eliminating all of my rights
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This is what will happen if you don't want this to go to trial:

Mom will get EVERYTHING she has requested so far (excluding termination of parental rights which I don't think she's asked for anyway - right?). Including attorney fees.

Why you don't want to go to trial is beyond me, but heck, you've handled this entire case so...eccentrically...that I'm no longer surprised. :)

Finally...the questions are getting easier!

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Quoting passiondad

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New question! How do i get out of going to trial?

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Stay home.

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from what you know could mom have a chance of eliminating all of my rights
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If you don't show, expect mom to get everything she asks for.

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Quoting aardvarc

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Finally...the questions are getting easier!



Stay home.



If you don't show, expect mom to get everything she asks for.

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It's a full moon this evening, isn't it? ;) :D

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Quoting aardvarc

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Finally...the questions are getting easier!



Stay home.



If you don't show, expect mom to get everything she asks for.

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I bet the next move is "Discovery". That has something to do with sharing the evidence with each other. Judge needs to order ""discovery"

Only if you request it....

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Quoting passiondad

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Judge needs to order ""discovery"

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Judges don't take actions like that in family law cases - judges decide matters of law and procedure - they serve the purpose of ensuring that the parties follow the rules and that requests from either party are proper and lawful, and if so, they issue a ruling on the request, petition, writ, etc. based on statutory and case law. In other words, the judge is NOT the driving party, they only respond to what the parties in the case do or request (via their filings). If you want something done, there is a procedure for that. You need to follow those procedures with the proper filings within the proper time frame and requesting things that are pertinent AND that court has the power to grant. Again.....you NEED an attorney. This is Basic Law 101 stuff. By the time you get up to speed, the child in question will be married with kids of her own.

Have you bothered to read any of the multitude of helpful resources out there, like
The Child Custody Book by Judge James Stewart?

or


James Gross's Father's Rights: The Best Interest of the Child Includes You


If you're going to have a prayer in hell, you need to get MUCH more proactive. Get your butt OFFLINE and either sit down with an attorney, or turn the computer off and read a generous selection of authoritative volumes like the ones mentioned above (and your local library, bookstore, or Amazon.com will have dozens of others) and get yourself educated about the basics of family law and court procedure. If you want someone to write you a "how to" book, there are many already in existence, so pay one of the many authors who have already gone to the trouble to make such resources available to you. But expecting to get that length and depth of education via an internet forum is simply rude and imposing. And/or, you could take the time to simply go sit in on a few family law cases in your local court to see how the game is played.

Either way, your answer is NOT online.

Well, he DID spend over a year over on that other forum. Spinning in circles, being told the exact same things. Over, and over, and over, and over.

Didn't seem to learn much.

Didn't bother to join the father's rights groups.

Didn't follow the advice offered.

This is why, after over a year, he's really no further than he was. And he was in the right. It's so head-bangingly frustrating it's not even cute, Catherine.

Le sigh.

Well, I've done all I can. Once you've led a horse to water...then filtered, clarified, sanitized, chilled, and served that water with a very nice mint and fresh berry garnish (and a couple of cute waitresses to boot), if the horse still refuses to drink, sometimes you just have to let it die. Viva la buzzards!

You had me at "mint".

:D

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Quoting aardvarc

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Judges don't take actions like that in family law cases - judges decide matters of law and procedure - they serve the purpose of ensuring that the parties follow the rules and that requests from either party are proper and lawful, and if so, they issue a ruling on the request, petition, writ, etc. based on statutory and case law. In other words, the judge is NOT the driving party, they only respond to what the parties in the case do or request (via their filings). If you want something done, there is a procedure for that. You need to follow those procedures with the proper filings within the proper time frame and requesting things that are pertinent AND that court has the power to grant. Again.....you NEED an attorney. This is Basic Law 101 stuff. By the time you get up to speed, the child in question will be married with kids of her own.

Have you bothered to read any of the multitude of helpful resources out there, like
The Child Custody Book by Judge James Stewart?

or


James Gross's Father's Rights: The Best Interest of the Child Includes You


If you're going to have a prayer in hell, you need to get MUCH more proactive. Get your butt OFFLINE and either sit down with an attorney, or turn the computer off and read a generous selection of authoritative volumes like the ones mentioned above (and your local library, bookstore, or Amazon.com will have dozens of others) and get yourself educated about the basics of family law and court procedure. If you want someone to write you a "how to" book, there are many already in existence, so pay one of the many authors who have already gone to the trouble to make such resources available to you. But expecting to get that length and depth of education via an internet forum is simply rude and imposing. And/or, you could take the time to simply go sit in on a few family law cases in your local court to see how the game is played.

Either way, your answer is NOT online.

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"thanks to you and daomatique"

I got 6 weeks.....lol to get into the best possible supervision gradual schedule.

I just bought: 'The Child Custody Book: How to Protect Your C...
www.amazon.com

Yeah I just bought the first book.....

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Well, he DID spend over a year over on that other forum. Spinning in circles, being told the exact same things. Over, and over, and over, and over.

Didn't seem to learn much.

Didn't bother to join the father's rights groups.

Didn't follow the advice offered.

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Amen, that is as true a statement as has ever been made.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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And he was in the right.

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Mother did remove child from the state of Florida, and Dad could probably have successfully ordered the return of the child with an attorney, so in that respect I concur.

I suspect however, that mom used every good instinct of self preservation that she had and acted in the child’s best interest when she fled the state. We have only heard what Dad tells us Mom says, but what she says he’s done isn’t pretty and that is the version he is willing to tell us.

OP has some mental health issues that spill over into public forums (not so much this one as the other) in a way that concerns me for mom and child’s safety.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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It's so head-bangingly frustrating it's not even cute,
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Touché

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Quoting drthyrd

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Amen, that is as true a statement as has ever been made.



Mother did remove child from the state of Florida, and Dad could probably have successfully ordered the return of the child with an attorney, so in that respect I concur.

I suspect however, that mom used every good instinct of self preservation that she had and acted in the child’s best interest when she fled the state. every instinctual yearning for money more kids and a guy who would marry her.... yeah she fled a relationship that was going no where and OP told her it was going no where.She left with a heart break

OP has some mental health issues that spill over into public forums (not so much this one as the other) in a way that concerns me for mom and child’s safety.



Touché

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You my friend are a licensed pshychologist? Have you sat down with me for 3 hours and talked? have you seen the Mppi report from the test? NO! so can it. Im sick of the damn internet rumors, obviouslly they are half way aroun=d the world before the truth puts its boots on.....

Ive been patient, and civil in court and out, trying to do this the way of the law........cant wait to see these internet post that were altered like yours above.

The only person who had the ability to do that was the actual administrator of the site. And she only, from what I can tell, removed language and inanity.

The meat of your posts were never touched, my friend.

Don't start on that one.

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Quoting passiondad

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You my friend are a licensed pshychologist? Have you sat down with me for 3 hours and talked? have you seen the Mppi report from the test? NO!

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I cannot diagnose your specific mental illness, but I can identify that you have one. Just as I am not an ornithologist, but I can still identify a duck.

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Quoting passiondad

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Im sick of the damn internet rumors, obviouslly they are half way aroun=d the world before the truth puts its boots on.....
Ive been patient, and civil in court and out, trying to do this the way of the law.

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Yet, you have refused to get an attorney and have spun everyone’s wheels due to your willful ignorance and refusal to use a professional.

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Quoting passiondad

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cant wait to see these internet post that were altered like yours above.

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Your edit to my post is noted. I have tried to help you, on the other board, and came to the unfortunate conclusion that this was not about your child. Catherine is a great source for book recommendations and I am sure her selections could help many fathers and will give you added knowledge. What you do with the knowledge you gain however, that is another story altogether. It won’t be pretty but I am sure you will provide us all the details.

I truly hope that your situation is resolved in a manner that creates the best and safest possible outcome for you, your ex, and your child, whatever that outcome may be.

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Quoting drthyrd

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I cannot diagnose your specific mental illness, but I can identify that you have one. Just as I am not an ornithologist, but I can still identify a duck.



Yet, you have refused to get an attorney and have spun everyone’s wheels due to your willful ignorance and refusal to use a professional.



Your edit to my post is noted. I have tried to help you, on the other board, and came to the unfortunate conclusion that this was not about your child. Catherine is a great source for book recommendations and I am sure her selections could help many fathers and will give you added knowledge. What you do with the knowledge you gain however, that is another story altogether. It won’t be pretty but I am sure you will provide us all the details.

I truly hope that your situation is resolved in a manner that creates the best and safest possible outcome for you, your ex, and your child, whatever that outcome may be.

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At trial the evidence will show, the child was never in danger, mom willfully put the families housing at risk and finacially created a hardship to support her action. (IE the planning of leaving the father emotionally and financially in hardship)

Mom has hurt me beyond imagination by her action.

I will say this, after trial its going to appeal.......

Interesting thing happened the other day....

I filed for adjourment of the trial in january citing court around the same date in another county. You know what they did, the court? Yes indeed they called that other court and asked the dates, and it did not conflict, so in letter from judge he makes note of this contact and does not adjourn trial.

October 13th 2010, I state in open court "your honor I like to dismiss this action because another court in florida is hearing it" they dismiss. Never made a phone call to florida, Im still floored that they just rode on with the proceedings, yet when i ask for adjourment, they "look into it" That lack of action by wis court undoubtedly was a severe error that has cost me the father.

when a lawyer or pro se ask a judge to dismiss because the same issues are being heard in another state, the courts need to stay proceedings and not hold "venue" hearings without other state and make orders......
THAT IS THE LAW.

A judicial conference is just that, a conference of judges, not a time for moms and lawyers to make allegations of abuse, bring up criminal records ect...

I could go on and on about the GALS invovlvement before jurisdiction was decided. About numerous request for full evidentiary hearing, due process violations, court clerks changing court dates not how the law allows them to.

Ill keep focused though about parenting at trial, besides the errors i have to bring up, so the appeal reflects that I have been making these arguments thruout.

What pray are you trying to appeal? The jurisdictional decision? Or whether or not the trial leaves you with X amount of visitation versus Y?

Believe it or not folks, there's a reason I'm asking. ;)

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Quoting Dogmatique

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What pray are you trying to appeal? The jurisdictional decision? Or whether or not the trial leaves you with X amount of visitation versus Y?

Believe it or not folks, there's a reason I'm asking. ;)

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I will of course appeal the jurisdictional issues as I still believe the court errored, Allthough i did not utter the words, letters "UCCJEA" I notified in open court by stating, "another court is hearing the same matters" and because uccjea was filed at that point the only measure by law allowed was to "stay proceedings" and communicate with other court. which wis court did not do. They made 4 different orders upon being notified and held hearing without FL court present or communication prior to.

Guess what! The Gal asked for a continuance on monday....LOL the same thing i asked for the week before and was denied.

NOTE:; The GALS request have not been turned down yet. I prayed early monday morning for something to go my way! No answer as of yet!

Note as well: When it comes down to it, I will comply with the courts for however many years to be a substanial part of my childs life.

PS hoping my book comes today! :)

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Quoting passiondad

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I will of course appeal the jurisdictional issues as I still believe the court errored, Allthough i did not utter the words, letters "UCCJEA" I notified in open court by stating, "another court is hearing the same matters" and because uccjea was filed at that point the only measure by law allowed was to "stay proceedings" and communicate with other court. which wis court did not do. They made 4 different orders upon being notified and held hearing without FL court present or communication prior to.

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Ah. So you didn't actually properly object. That's the problem right there. And that issue is not appealable.

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Guess what! The Gal asked for a continuance on monday....LOL the same thing i asked for the week before and was denied.

NOTE:; The GALS request have not been turned down yet. I prayed early monday morning for something to go my way! No answer as of yet!

Note as well: When it comes down to it, I will comply with the courts for however many years to be a substanial part of my childs life.

PS hoping my book comes today! :)

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Even if you could appeal the jurisdictional issue, what do you hope to gain? It won't be tossed back to Florida, since neither of you live there. And even if you move back (yes, I can see you doing that), you're going to shoot yourself in the foot - kiddo isn't going to be returned to Florida after this length of time, and you'll be looking at a long-distance parenting plan, spending even less time with her.

How does that help?

Okay, I've slogged through this mess and ya'll have gotten my curiosity up. Can someone PM me a link to the thread on the other board?

But I do agree with everyone else OP, you need an attorney.

Yeap - give me a few mins :)

That took longer than expected - nobody told me my box was full lol

Had to go cleaning ;)

Oh holy night....why does no one ever TELL me they're gonna be cleaning? I'd have snuck in the cat litter that needs to go out!