Criminal Charges for Overdraft

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Quoting jk

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It doesn't really matter if he has OD protection or not unless he has some very unique version of OD protection. The only thing that would save his butt here is if he had OP protection that automatically caused the OD to become a loan. Possible but unusual. It is the OP's failure in not knowing his situation, not mine.

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I would argue that it matters a great deal whether he has OD protection or not...

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most times banks do not rush down to the police and seek charges. They attempt to allow the customer to prove their intent and correct the situation. Maybe he hasn't heard anything because the DA is working on getting an arrest warrant.:eek:

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Holy smoke Batman!

Well, the first two sentences sound like something I would say.
But my third sentence would be - what's with this bank which appears to have failures in communication? Why have they not said anything throughout this month? babagoneh's first post was on the 26th October, so if you think about it, a month's worth of banking procedures have essentially been completed throughout the time that the accounts have been in the negative - I'm struck by the silence...which makes me wonder. Man, I might even try to find out what awesome bank this is and sign up!
(I realize that sounds like I didn't read your third sentence - really, you really think they ran to the DA and they're sorting out an arrest warrant over $2000 when the bank has not said a word to the client?)

babagoneh...you wouldn't happen to have moved have you? (that would be the simplest answer actually...)

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and has refused to cure the deficit.

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Oh. That's strange. I must have missed the part where he 'refused'.

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Quoting aest

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Oh. That's strange. I must have missed the part where he 'refused'.

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OP is aware of the deficit. OP has not remedied the problem ergo OP has refused to fix the problem.

One doesn't have to say "no" in order to refuse something. Failing to fix something when aware of the problem is also a refusal although tacit.

and do you really believe the OP that he has had NO communication with the bank? How do you think he is aware of the problem?

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I would argue that it matters a great deal whether he has OD protection or not...

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sure it would, if it was of a type that would allow the person to never pay for the overdraft, which is the position the OP is in. When you find a bank that does that for its customers, let me know. I want to open an account at that bank. It will be like the joke where the guy asks the Genie for the money for any purchase he makes to magically be in his pocket when he reaches into his pocket. Magic money overdraft protection. I love it.

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Quoting jk

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OP is aware of the deficit. OP has not remedied the problem ergo OP has refused to fix the problem.

One doesn't have to say "no" in order to refuse something. Failing to fix something when aware of the problem is also a refusal although tacit.

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I think you would struggle with your definition of 'refuse' in a court of law.

I'm pretty sure refusing would sound more like this:

Bank: I say I say good Sir, couldn't help but notice you've used a bit more money than you actually had. You wouldn't mind handing that back would you? Jolly good.
Babagondeh: No. You can't have it. It's my money.
Bank: Come now good Sir. Give us our money back or we'll give you what for!
Babagondeh: No! You're not having my money. You give me what for!
Bank: That's it! We're going straight to the feds. Straight to the feds! We'll let you know what they said after they stop laughing. Columbian drug cartel wire fraud - huh! What a waste of time. What the feds really need is a $2000 Amazon case!
Babagondeh: Fed schmed. I don't care. You're still not getting my money.

Later in the Feds office:
Detective Clouseau: AMAZON! I knew the Brazilians were involved!

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How do you think he is aware of the problem?

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I have this wild idea that he might use internet banking...

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It will be like the joke where the guy asks the Genie for the money for any purchase he makes to magically be in his pocket when he reaches into his pocket. Magic money overdraft protection. I love it.

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Wow. You're not very good at telling jokes...

Ok so a few days ago I got a few letters from the bank about the overdrafts. For the $300 overdraft theyre still charging me $35 for every day that it is outstanding. For the $1700 they have not even charged me with a single overdraft fee. They just said that the amount is delinquent andthey would like to "keep my business" "so please pay us back" or else they might have to report me to Chex Systems and I wont be able to open a bank account for the next 7 years. So I called them and told them I would like to pay for the $300 balance not including the overdrafts. They said no I have to pay for overdrafts I was like I cant afford it right now blah blah blah... and they were like we can take out one or two but it was still like $100 in overdraft charges which is essentially food out of my mouth. So I told them I'd call back with a decision. But I dont think I'll be able to do it right now. They can press civil charges and garnish my wages when I eventually have wages but right now I need the money.

I dunno if you can say I was trying to defraud the bank. I knew I had bought something but it is also the bank/merchants responsibility to charge me or place hold on the amount of what I buy in a reasonable time. I believe it was a little less than a week before the charges were applied. On an online transaction that is unheard of. Its usually instant. So I dunno. Will I go to jail for this?

I dont have access to a contract. If you must know it was a BofA account. One student and the $1700 one was a reg checking.

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Quoting babagondeh

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I knew I had bought something but it is also the bank/merchants responsibility to charge me or place hold on the amount of what I buy in a reasonable time. I believe it was a little less than a week before the charges were applied. On an online transaction that is unheard of. Its usually instant.

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Absolutely, positively, 100% wrong. They can charge you a month after the transaction if they want to although I doubt any would as it would screw up their books. It is your responsibility to ensure the funds are available. If the merchant does not charge you, you should a. contact them to see what is going on and b. leave the money in there for far more than a week. Sounds like you thought you got a freebie by mistake and yanked the funds in case they caught it. You gambled and lost, not it's time to pay the house.

It sounds like the bank is still trying to be civil about this. I recommend you work with them. Try offering the $300 now and payments on the OD fee balance.

The question is will the sheriff come knocking on the door for this. Please base your answers on actual criminal law or previous cases not just opinion. thank you.

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Quoting free9man

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It sounds like the bank is still trying to be civil about this. I recommend you work with them. Try offering the $300 now and payments on the OD fee balance.

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I did that already but I can't afford all the extra charges. I can only afford the principle amount. And thats what i told them.

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Quoting babagondeh

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The question is will the sheriff come knocking on the door for this. Please base your answers on actual criminal law or previous cases not just opinion. thank you.

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That was answered a long time ago.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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You chose to take the money out of an account such that the overdraft would occur, then you chose to spend the money rather than covering the overdraft. Bad choices we can't fix for you. Can we rule out that you won't be charged with a crime? Nope, we don't have a crystal ball here - the future is uncertain.

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You are now saying that the bank has offered some form of civil approach, where you pay back the money you took. If you do that - pay back the money you took in a manner satisfactory to the bank - I would expect that to be the end of the matter. If you choose not to do so, you may face additional consequences due to your choices.

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Quoting aest

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I would argue that it matters a great deal whether he has OD protection or not...

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You do understand, do you not that, despite some similarities, overdraft protection is not intended to be used as a line of credit? (Even if we assume that there was overdraft protection on the account, or that it is sufficient to cover the amounts at issue.)

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Quoting aest

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(I realize that sounds like I didn't read your third sentence - really, you really think they ran to the DA and they're sorting out an arrest warrant over $2000 when the bank has not said a word to the client?)

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It's important to note two things:

First, babagoneh has chosen to withhold a lot of information from us. Given that you specifically suggest that the bank did not communicate on the issue, as it turns out, there was clear communication from the bank on the $300 overdraft and a very polite request that babagoneh repay the $1,700. He is here not because the bank doesn't want the money back, but because he doesn't want to pay overdraft fees and wants somebody to reassure him that he won't be arrested if the bank doesn't see him as cooperating in the return of its money.

Also, if you believe the bank has some sort of duty to approach the customer and discuss anything before reporting an incident such as this to the police, you are wrong. There is no such obligation. Here, contrary to your assumption, the bank did approach babagoneh but there's no reason they could not have looked at the transactions (transactions babagoneh has chosen not to explain to us, despite repeated requests that he do so), determine that they likely involved criminal intent and go straight to the police.

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Quoting aest

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Oh. That's strange. I must have missed the part where he 'refused'.

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Are you clear on things now? The bank has expressly asked for its money back, babagondeh has not returned it. I'm not sure that there's much of a point to semantic games over whether babagondeh's failure to return the money is a refusal to return it or if it should be regarded as something other than a refusal because he spent the bank's money on other things and no longer has the money to return.

First, there is the obligatory this is a public forum. You do not get to dictate who responds to you or how.

Next, you were asserting that an on-line merchant should bill you immediately and that failure to do so means they won't. That implies you believe a reasonable person, if not billed immediately, would think it's alright to yank the money out. I was simply rebutting that because it is wrong. If a merchant hasn't billed you in a month, you should leave the money available and contact them about it. If they ignore you, you can move the money if you want but should be prepared to have to pay the bill when presented. At the end, you stated it was "a little less than a week before the charges were applied" which means you yanked the funds before a week had even passed. That is just moronic on a scale unimaginable to not even give them a week. It is not unreasonable for a merchant to batch process charges on a weekly basis, many do. That means you were trying to get over. If you made your purchase on a weekend, it may not have shown for several days thus being a little less than a week before the charges were applied. I have purchased from Amazon on the weekend and had it not post until Tues or Weds.

Will the sheriff come a'knockin? To arrest you? Probably not. The merchant was made whole and the bank can seek civil remedies against you. If the bank gets frustrated, can find the right charge and a willing prosecutor...it might happen. They will almost certainly come a'knockin' to serve you for the lawsuit.

If you can't afford it, pay them what you can. At that point they will likely report you to CHEX and either sue you or turn you over to a CA. That may take a while cause they'll let the OD fees keep piling up so the suit is worth it.

Ok I guess it is best is I gy to set up a payment plan. Has . Thanks everyone. Has anyone been in a similar situation? If so I would like to hear how it played out

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Ok so a few days ago I got a few letters from the bank about the overdrafts

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.wow, look at that aest. I guess I must be psychic.

As you can also see, he has refused to pay the debt to date.

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I was like I cant afford it right now blah blah blah

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I dunno if you can say I was trying to defraud the bank. I knew I had bought something but it is also the bank/merchants responsibility to charge me or place hold on the amount of what I buy in a reasonable time.

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No, it isn't the banks responsibility to put a hold on anything. It is your responsibility to keep track of how much money you have in the bank and not spend more than that.

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I believe it was a little less than a week before the charges were applied. On an online transaction that is unheard of. Its usually instant. So I dunno. Will I go to jail for this?

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Yes, in today's world banking is almost instantaneous but that does not have anything to do with you spending money you know you didn't have.

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I dont have access to a contract.

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You have a computer and internet access. They may have it online.