Town Wrongfully Issuing Speeding Citations

My question involves police conduct in the State of: Montana

I was issued a speeding ticket 37 mph in 25 mph zone. I had not noticed the speed change. When I went back to find the 25 mph speed sign, I noticed that there on the same pole was a bright yellow banner advertising the city.

After researching this issue, it is against the MUTCD to post any advertising on a traffic control sign. Can any one help me write the disclosure and discovery forms.

does MUCTD say the presence of advertising causes the actual sign to invalid?

what section of the MUTCD?

"Welcome to Montana City" is not advertising. "Verizion plans starting @ $49/month" is advertising.

JK

Section 1A.01(03)
Traffic Control devices or their supports shall not bear any advertising message or any other message that is not related to traffic control.

The banner is bright yellow and it say "Welcome to ------- City"

to FullAuto

It MUTCD also states that it is undesirable to overload road users with too much info.

You should keep in mind that under certain circumstances, and either by ordinance or state law, the 25mph speed limit maybe statutory (examples: in residential zones, school zones or business districts) and as such, a speed limit sign may not be required.

At any rate, Montana has not adopted the MUTCD as its standard so arguing that the MUTCD recommends or advises against a certain provision is not likely to make this an invalid citation.

That Guy,

According to Montana Code Annotated 2011

Section 61-8-202 Department of transportation to adopt manual.
"The manual adopted by the department of transportation must correlate with and so far as possible conform to the Manual on Uniform Traffic COntrol Devices, as amended, published by the United States federal highway administration".

I will need to look into the Montana codes for 25 mph. I know they must conduct an engineering study to be able to reduce it to 25. I have pictures, that the talked about sign was moved within the past few years and was moved less than 20 yards from its own post to the current location which is located on a light pole with the a town banner flying above it.

Ok, even if the MUCTD has been adopted, did the statement present as a recommendation or requirement? If only a recommendation then the dual use is not a problem. If a requirement, then it gives you ammunition.

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Quoting Wyo-Gal

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That Guy,

According to Montana Code Annotated 2011

Section 61-8-202 Department of transportation to adopt manual.
"The manual adopted by the department of transportation must correlate with and so far as possible conform to the Manual on Uniform Traffic COntrol Devices, as amended, published by the United States federal highway administration".

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Wyo-Gal,

I did not make that up. If you clicked on the link I provided, you'll see where I came up with that info.... The FHWA website. Either way, I can only assume that the Montana D. O. T. website will have some more information it that state's version.

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Quoting Wyo-Gal

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I will need to look into the Montana codes for 25 mph.

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OK, the following is what I was referring to in my last post:

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Quoting MCA Section 61-8-303. Speed restrictions.

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61-8-303. Speed restrictions. (1) Except as provided in 61-8-309, 61-8-310, and 61-8-312, the speed limit for vehicles traveling:
......
......****
*(c) in an urban district is 25 miles an hour.
.

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And Montana defines an "Urban District" as follows:

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Quoting MCA Section 61-8-102. (Temporary) Uniformity of interpretation --

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definitions.
(1) Interpretation of this chapter in this state must be as consistent as possible with the interpretation of similar laws in other states.
*****(2) As used in this chapter, unless the context requires otherwise, the following definitions apply:
.....
......
(u) "Urban district" means the territory contiguous to and including any street that is built up with structures devoted to business, industry, or dwelling houses situated at intervals of less than 100 feet for a distance of one-fourth mile or more.

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Assuming the roadway where you were cited fits the criteria described under the definition of "Urban District" then there is good reason to believe that the 25mph speed limit is in accordance with the statute.

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Quoting Wyo-Gal

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I know they must conduct an engineering study to be able to reduce it to 25.

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Actually, they don't have to... They may have to under certain conditions but not always...

1) Assuming it was higher than 25, then yes, they can conduct a Traffic & Engineering survey and, whether by ordinance they can reduce it.

2) However, if the roadway fits the description of "Urban District" then the statutory maximum speed limit for that segment of road IS 25mph regardless of what any survey says. While it can be reduced further (hypothetically), it cannot exceed the state mandated maximum for an Urban District!

3) It is also possible that the segment of roadway, and through development, happened to recently meet the criteria described under the definition of Urban District; the regulating authority can, by ordinance or by resolution reduce the speed limit to 25mph and in compliance with State law. The only report required here would simply be to establish that it qualifies as an Urban District but there is no need to conduct speed mesasurments or establish prevailing speeds.

4) The forth possibility is that this segment of roadway does not meet the criteria specified under the definition of Urban District, that the speed limit was indeed higher that 25 and that they reduced it by way of conducting a Traffic & Engineering survey after which it can be reduced accordingly.

If any of the above scenarios occured then the 25mph speed limit is valid.

Otherwise, you can arm yourself with
A copy of the T&E Survey (which you can obtain from the DOT -or if not them, then they can direct you to the entity that can provide it-), go to court and argue that the speed limit is invalid and hope for a dismissal.

You will find the code section related to: 61-8-309. Establishment of special speed zones. HERE: http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca/61/8/61-8-309.htm

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Quoting Wyo-Gal

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I have pictures, that the talked about sign was moved within the past few years and was moved less than 20 yards from its own post

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I'm not sure how moving a speed limit sign is any indication of it validity or lackthereof. As I stated above (see scenario # 3 above) it is possible that the area grew and was developed, which made it for the description of Urban District, the sign was moved farther back to indicate the beginning of the 25 mph zone. But all of this is as good a guess as yours. So contact the D.O.T., request a copy of the survey if one exists, and see what you have.

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Quoting Wyo-Gal

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to the current location which is located on a light pole with the a town banner flying above it.

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See, this entire time, I was picturing a 7ft tall sign post with a speed limit sign, and they somehow managed to hang -what would be a low flying-banner. Now you say the sign is on a "light pole" -How high is this light pole and the "banner is hanging above it" and how high above the speed limit sign is this banned hanging? .

This is quite different that your original suggestion that "the advertising" was "ON the sign":

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Quoting Wyo-Gal

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After researching this issue, it is against the MUTCD to post any advertising on a traffic control sign.

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That really changes rthings quite a bit!

Anyway, good luck!