Questions on VC 22349(a) and Q Changing Venue for a Ticket
My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California
Hi, so I was driving back to my college campus last night from San Jose, driving on US 101 S/B. It was 1 AM when I saw the lights, got pulled right outside of Paso Robles. At that time, there were no cars on the road and conditions were clear (ie., no fog) so I lost track of my speed and was going 92 when the cop pulled me over. He ticketed me for VC 22349 (a), speeding over 65 on a highway. Now, I know it's very slim for me to escape from this ticket. Previously, I've gotten a talking on phone while driving violation 3 years back but it got removed immediately. What I have in mind was just going with a TBD but if it doesn't work out, then I'm going to have some trouble, just be polite to the judge and hope I get traffic school. Do I have any other options?
Also, I would like to know:
1) is it possible to change the mailing address of the ticket? I'm at school right now but I gave him my home address. Can I just call court and tell them to change it?
2) can I change the court at which the trial will take place AFTER the ticket is issued? I didn't know you could do that until I started reading.
Thanks!
Re: Questions on VC 22349(a) and Q Changing Venue for a Ticket
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kinkikowboi
1) is it possible to change the mailing address of the ticket? I'm at school right now but I gave him my home address. Can I just call court and tell them to change it?
Not a good idea -- they may not even have a record until the ticket is filed and processed. Won't your parents (or whoever lives at home) just forward it to you?
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kinkikowboi
2) can I change the court at which the trial will take place AFTER the ticket is issued? I didn't know you could do that until I started reading.
What court are you scheduled to appear at? If it's in SLO county, is your college or home closer to the city of SLO? If so: there are no guarantees after the ticket is written, but your best chance is to request a change of venue to the county seat (city of SLO) by appearing personally at arraignment.
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kinkikowboi
What I have in mind was just going with a TBD but if it doesn't work out, then I'm going to have some trouble, just be polite to the judge and hope I get traffic school. Do I have any other options?
Maybe. Assuming you are eligible for traffic school, the only way to find out if you will get it after losing a TBD/TDN is to sit through a session or two at your traffic court. Let's get the venue issue resolved first.
Re: Questions on VC 22349(a) and Q Changing Venue for a Ticket
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quirkyquark
Not a good idea -- they may not even have a record until the ticket is filed and processed. Won't your parents (or whoever lives at home) just forward it to you?
Yea, but it's just that I would rather have it in my own hands. I guess I'll just ask them to mail it to me. Then again, I read that I have 10 days to process my address change at the DMV and bring it to court as proof of change. Is this correct?
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quirkyquark
What court are you scheduled to appear at? If it's in SLO county, is your college or home closer to the city of SLO? If so: there are no guarantees after the ticket is written, but your best chance is to request a change of venue to the county seat (city of SLO) by appearing personally at arraignment.
I'm schedule to appear at Paso Robles Court which is almost an hour drive north of where I live in SLO. My college is smack-dab in the middle of SLO and the court is literally a 10 minute bike ride from my house. When you say arraignment, do you mean the first hearing? So do I have to wait until the first hearing to finish and then request it then?
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quirkyquark
Maybe. Assuming you are eligible for traffic school, the only way to find out if you will get it after losing a TBD/TDN is to sit through a session or two at your traffic court. Let's get the venue issue resolved first.
I don't think so, because I've read that if the violation is 25+ more than the max speed, then it's gone. Or is that just based on the court?
Re: Questions on VC 22349(a) and Q Changing Venue for a Ticket
One of my tickets was tried by Commissioner Sefton out of Paso Robles, and he did grant me traffic school after I lost trial de novo.
Re: Questions on VC 22349(a) and Q Changing Venue for a Ticket
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kinkikowboi
Then again, I read that I have 10 days to process my address change at the DMV and bring it to court as proof of change. Is this correct?
Huh? That is if you permanently moved, and somehow you were cited for violating that law VC 14600. It's not relevant here.
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kinkikowboi
I'm schedule to appear at Paso Robles Court which is almost an hour drive north of where I live in SLO. My college is smack-dab in the middle of SLO and the court is literally a 10 minute bike ride from my house. When you say arraignment, do you mean the first hearing? So do I have to wait until the first hearing to finish and then request it then?
Yes, arraignment is the first hearing. Once it's your turn, you say "I have a motion, your honor", and request to change venue. The other thing you can try is: once you get the courtesy notice, request a 30-day extension via phone. Then, you can go to the Paso Robles court and submit a written motion for change of venue. If that isn't granted, you can still request it at arraignment.
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kinkikowboi
I don't think so, because I've read that if the violation is 25+ more than the max speed, then it's gone. Or is that just based on the court?
It's not "gone", it's just not automatic--i.e., you will have to request it from the judge. Does your ticket say 92 in approx speed?
Re: Questions on VC 22349(a) and Q Changing Venue for a Ticket
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quirkyquark
Huh? That is if you permanently moved, and somehow you were cited for violating that law
VC 14600. It's not relevant here.
Ahh ok then. If that's the case, then I'll just let my parents know whats up.
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quirkyquark
Yes, arraignment is the first hearing. Once it's your turn, you say "I have a motion, your honor", and request to change venue. The other thing you can try is: once you get the courtesy notice,
request a 30-day extension via phone. Then, you can go to the Paso Robles court and submit a written motion for change of venue. If that isn't granted, you can still request it at arraignment.
Do I need to wait until I get the courtesy notice or is it more advantageous for me to wait so I can extend the period longer? I'll try the written motion, but to minimize the amount of driving, do you think it's ok if I just mail it in or going in person would put a better impression on me? Is there like vocabulary or a sentence structure that I should be aware of when trying to tell them my motion?
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quirkyquark
It's not "gone", it's just not automatic--i.e., you will have to request it from the judge. Does your ticket say 92 in approx speed?
Yea, it does say 92 as approx speed. I asked if he could lower it to 89 but he said that anything over 90 is very serious in his book.
I also have another question. Some friends have told me that CHP are required to show up to court dates as of a new rule apparently, to minimize the amount of cases being dismissed for absent CHP. Have you heard of this?
Re: Questions on VC 22349(a) and Q Changing Venue for a Ticket
One more thing, I read from someone's blog that if I "request discovery" to the city attorney to find all the evidence they are going to use against me, then only this evidence can be used as legal evidence. If no evidence is given, then if the officer gives evidence in his TDB, then it would be considered irrelevant. Just read it here
6 comments down is where he says it.
Re: Questions on VC 22349(a) and Q Changing Venue for a Ticket
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kinkikowboi
Do I need to wait until I get the courtesy notice or is it more advantageous for me to wait so I can extend the period longer? I'll try the written motion, but to minimize the amount of driving, do you think it's ok if I just mail it in or going in person would put a better impression on me? Is there like vocabulary or a sentence structure that I should be aware of when trying to tell them my motion?
The extension was mainly because your motion must be filed in person and heard on a "motion calendar". You should call the traffic clerk (once you receive the notice) and ask what the procedure for submitting a motion to change venue is. Be polite but persistent -- you may have to talk to the criminal clerk for this information. Motions must follow a specific format...you can google, go to your local law library for help or post here once it's actually time to draft the motion.
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Yea, it does say 92 as approx speed. I asked if he could lower it to 89 but he said that anything over 90 is very serious in his book.
Once you know your court (depending on whether change of venue is successful or not), you can go and ask the clerk in a friendly way what the traffic judge's policy is traffic school for 25+ citations. If not allowed you have nothing to lose by going to trial.
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I also have another question. Some friends have told me that CHP are required to show up to court dates as of a new rule apparently, to minimize the amount of cases being dismissed for absent CHP. Have you heard of this?
As the LEOs on this forum will tell you, the officer is subpoenaed by the court and is theoretically required to appear. The actual appearance rate depends on the policies of the specific agency.... Typically, since CHP's primary duty is traffic enforcement, they are pretty diligent about showing unless there is a good reason.
Looking at the list of CHP offices for the Coastal District, your citing officer is probably stationed at Templeton. Besides being more convenient for you, one side effect of a change of venue to SLO is that it may be a little out of the way of the officer and consequently MAY SLIGHTLY increase the very-slim chance of a no-show at the eventual trial (if any).
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One more thing, I read from someone's blog that if I "request discovery" to the city attorney to find all the evidence they are going to use against me, then only this evidence can be used as legal evidence. If no evidence is given, then if the officer gives evidence in his TDB, then it would be considered irrelevant.
Well, Sarit's experience is just one data point -- his TBD may well have been dismissed because the officer didn't submit his side. Discovery will be useful at the trial, but from my experience and others on this forum has virtually zero effect on the TBD. The reason is that trying to exclude evidence, etc. all requires more motions, hearings, etc. and the TBD process isn't designed to accommodate all that.
FYI, the SLO County DA handles all prosecutions for traffic infractions.. I'd recommend you get the venue issue settled before you send a discovery request.
All that said, a 22349(a) is one of the hardest VC speeding charges to legitimately defend (the Sarit blog post is about a 22350 which is MUCH easier). Your best bet is for a procedural error. Also take a look at this site to get an overall idea of the process, but remember that it's actually very difficult to get a dismissal based on failure to provide (or incomplete) discovery.
Re: Questions on VC 22349(a) and Q Changing Venue for a Ticket
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quirkyquark
The extension was mainly because your motion must be filed in person and heard on a "motion calendar". You should call the traffic clerk (once you receive the notice) and ask what the procedure for submitting a motion to change venue is. Be polite but persistent -- you may have to talk to the criminal clerk for this information. Motions must follow a specific format...you can google, go to your
local law library for help or post here once it's actually time to draft the motion.
Alright, I'll see if I can do it myself first and if I can't, I'll refer back here. I think that I will try and extend the period first for an additional 30 days and then try and get a new venue from there. If they deny me, would it be acceptable for me to call back and try to talk to another clerk? Saying that I am a student should give me some weight in me argument, yes?
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quirkyquark
Once you know your court (depending on whether change of venue is successful or not), you can go and ask the clerk in a friendly way what the traffic judge's policy is traffic school for 25+ citations. If not allowed you have nothing to lose by going to trial.
Ughh, I really need this traffic school if worse comes to worse. I'll see what I can do about this situation if it arises.
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quirkyquark
As the LEOs on this forum will tell you, the officer is subpoenaed by the court and is theoretically required to appear. The actual appearance rate depends on the policies of the specific agency.... Typically, since CHP's primary duty is traffic enforcement, they are pretty diligent about showing unless there is a good reason.
Looking at the list of CHP offices for the
Coastal District, your citing officer is probably stationed at Templeton. Besides being more convenient for you, one side effect of a change of venue to SLO is that it may be a little out of the way of the officer and consequently MAY SLIGHTLY increase the very-slim chance of a no-show at the eventual trial (if any).
I just checked your link and you are right. Apparently, the "Area" box that is inscribed in my citation is the area or facility he works at. The Templeton facility is area "740", both on the website and on this piece of paper haha. One mystery down. Now to find out what Beat means. I'm most likely trying to get a court time that is early in the morning or when US 101 S/B is really crowded due to students either driving home or to school. Since he caught me at 1 AM, I'm assuming he works the night shift so it would make sense to get a morning time. And the drive would also be very untempting for him.
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quirkyquark
Well, Sarit's experience is just one data point -- his TBD may well have been dismissed because the officer didn't submit his side. Discovery will be useful at the trial, but from my experience and others on this forum has virtually zero effect on the TBD. The reason is that trying to exclude evidence, etc. all requires more motions, hearings, etc. and the TBD process isn't designed to accommodate all that.
FYI, the
SLO County DA handles all prosecutions for traffic infractions.. I'd recommend you get the venue issue settled before you send a discovery request.
All that said, a 22349(a) is one of the hardest VC speeding charges to legitimately defend (the Sarit blog post is about a 22350 which is MUCH easier). Your best bet is for a procedural error. Also take a look at
this site to get an overall idea of the process, but remember that it's actually very difficult to get a dismissal based on failure to provide (or incomplete) discovery.
That makes some sense. And yea, thats true but he was actually cited for 22349 (a) also. He just makes a reference to 22350 as being easy to escape from. From my understanding also, I think that I have to hope for an error on his part to win my case. Definitely going to get my venue settled before I do anything else. Very good idea. I'll make a couple calls tomorrow during my break tomorrow to see if I can pull a few strings. I actually read the "helpigotaticket" site before finding this site and I bookmarked it.
Re: Questions on VC 22349(a) and Q Changing Venue for a Ticket
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HonkingAntelope
One of my tickets was tried by Commissioner Sefton out of Paso Robles, and he did grant me traffic school after I lost trial de novo.
Ahh, didn't see your reply until now HA. What violation was your ticket? Same as mine?