How to Revoke Vouchering In Order to Increase My Public Assistance
My question involves civil rights in the State of: New York, Erie County.
Hello,
I need advice please. I applied for assistance from New York and as part of the routine paperwork which needs signature, the social worker with a bunch of other papers threw in a form stating that I am giving consent for recoupment and to voucher my payments.
I signed that paper along with the rest of the bundle.
Today I discovered that the form which I had signed was blank, which the social worker filled in my name and other information such as my case number, address and utility bill account numbers weeks later. This info was not available at the time I signed it.
Can I contest this , I had no intention of signing it and believe that I was tricked.
I was not given the opportunity to read this form and was mislead. I pretty much was at the mercy of the social worker and had no choice but to trust her. The New York register says that signing this form needs to be voluntary and the worker should explain to me that this is NOT a requirement to get assistance.
I was never informed of this plus this paper was presented to me in a way where I was lead to believe that it is a requirement. I was lead to believe I had no choice but to sign it to receive assistance.
After she got the signature, weeks later after information became available, she entered it in, without informing me or bringing this to my attention, I don't even remember seeing an area in the form where you need to put my name, address and utility bill account numbers.
I would like to apply for a Fair Hearing and Conference. I still have time to do so.
Can anybody please tell me if I have a valid argument and what the chances are of any action in my favor.
Thank You
Re: New York Social Services Tricked Me into Signing Blank Consent and Filled It Late
I'm sorry, what exactly is your argument here?
That your case worker saved time by obtaining your signature and then filling in the correct, relevant information necessary to process your application?
Please explain.
Re: New York Social Services Tricked Me into Signing Blank Consent and Filled It Late
My arguments are.
1) I was not given a chance to read the form, it was presented to me as part of the requirements.
2) The information filled in by her became available weeks later, why was I not shown that there actually is the part on the form which will be filled out by her later on, like weeks later and why was I not told that this part will be filled out without my knowledge.
Today when I went to the office to ask my utilities to be unrestricted, the person pretty much said I had signed a paper requesting restricted payments and gave me a copy of what I had signed.
At the time of signing, I did not have an address, an electric account number and a gas account number.
If she was saving time, she could of told showed me the areas which she will fill out later or put a note saying that she will fill out the form later and have me sign that as well.
I feel I was mislead and tricked into sighing a document which was not complete and would like to contest it because I don't want my utilities vouchered.
Re: New York Social Services Tricked Me into Signing Blank Consent and Filled It Late
So when you asked for time to read the document, what happened?
I'm sorry - I'm not wanting to be difficult, but the onus was on you to review what you were signing. If you felt uncomfortable, you had the option of either requesting that time or not signing at all.
Re: New York Social Services Tricked Me into Signing Blank Consent and Filled It Late
I understand that but as a homeless person with a disability and 2 kids when you are in that position, your vision and horizon is a little different.
Plus this is a government employee, so again it raises the trust level a little bit. I mean why use slimy ways to get a client to sign something rather then let the person read it. Plus it states in the register that the social worker should explain to me that signing this document is NOT required, this was never done.
I understand and accept that I signed it, but the document was practically FILLED OUT WEEKS LATER. Is that acceptable?
Re: New York Social Services Tricked Me into Signing Blank Consent and Filled It Late
anon, I've been there and done that. K? I do know what we're talking about here.
So, let's get back to it.
How are you going to prove that the social worker didn't explain everything?
(And yes, it's generally acceptable for the account details - your utility bill details for example - to be filled out later)
Re: New York Social Services Tricked Me into Signing Blank Consent and Filled It Late
Quote:
Quoting
Dogmatique
How are you going to prove that the social worker didn't explain everything?
(And yes, it's generally acceptable for the account details - your utility bill details for example - to be filled out later)
Really, there is still a space to put in the NYSEG account number which I dont yet have, so I guess then a few months down the line, she can fill that in as well.
I think by using that tactic she used itself shows the intention that she pretty much wanted to get this done in a hurry.
Let me type the exact form
Start of form
CLIENT CONSENT FOR PAYMENT, RECOUPMENT AND UTILITY VOUCHER
Case Nme: Unfilled, filled out later by social worker Case # NOT AVAILABLE, AT THE TIME, FILLED OUT WEEKS LATER
Address: Not available, filled out weeks later
NFG National Grid NYSEG
Filled out weeks later Filled out weeks later Still unfilled, I guess she can do this as well 2 month later
================================================== ================================================== ==========
I request that my fuel allowance and/or domestic allowance to be removed from my Public Assistance grant. I understand that the Erie County Department of Social Services will pay my fuel bills directly to my Utility/ Fuel Vendor. I understand that my signature authorizes the Erie County Department of Social Services to make these payments on my behalf directly to my Utility/ Fuel Vendor. I also understand that my allowance(s) will be removed through my current certification period (the same period for which direct payment is authorized). I understand that at amy point after twelve consecutive months of vouchering, I can request in writing that vouchering cease. I understand taht you will make a yearly comparison between the amounts paid and the amounts witheld. If payments exceed withholdings, I agree to have the excess amounts withheld from my grant. If withholdings exceed payments, I understand that any excess funds will first be used to reduce/eliminate any existing recoupments, with any remaining balance to be returned to me. I understand that vouchering of my heating account does not effect my eligibility to receive HEAP benefits. I request that I continue to receive any benefits for which I may be eligible. I understand my reqponsibility to notify the Erie County Department of Social Services of any changes that may effect my Utility/Fuel account.
I agree to have any Agency payment, made as a requld of a determination of mismanagement, not greater then the total of my last four bills, recovereed from my future grants of assistance at a rate not to exceed 15% of my basic needs.
I understand that any amounts currently owed to the Utility company, which the Erie County Department of Social Services is unable to pay, will be suspended from my account and not be subject to colection activity for as long as I mreain in receipt of Public Assistance. I understand that when I am no longer in receipt of Assistance I will be responsible for paying that amount.
Client Signature Date Worker Signature Date
----------------------- ------------ ------------------- -----------
================================================== ================================================== ============
End of form
Re: New York Social Services Tricked Me into Signing Blank Consent and Filled It Late
The problem here is what? That your bills are being paid directly, rather than your being given cash to pay them yourself? If you intend to pay your bills, what difference does that make?
You are, of course, free to object to the social worker's supervisor that you feel she mislead you, acted inappropriately, etc. - have you done so, and if so to what effect?
Re: New York Social Services Tricked Me into Signing Blank Consent and Filled It Late
The problem is that they are withholding much more then what the bills are.
Plus the extra money that they have withheld will have a recoupment, neighborhood legal said it would be a 10% recoupment, so they will lessen my assistance by 10% at the end of the year.
After the end of the year and after they take out the recoupment, they will give me what is left.
All of these fine details are not on that form.
I never consented to all of this, heck the form doesn't even give the amounts which they will deduct, they are not the actual amounts paid on the utility bill.
Furthermore to avoid recoupment, this encourages clients to basically OVERUSE and waste electricity, gas and fuel just so to raise up the actual bill amount to what they are withholding. It's either that or conserve your utilities and have a 10% recoupment at the end of the year.
so the form may be saying that the bills will be paid and they will, but the actual amount they are witholding is much more then the actual bills.
This is money which we could use, furthermore we could conserve energy even more knowing the money saved will be ours immediately.
Re: New York Social Services Tricked Me into Signing Blank Consent and Filled It Late
So you get a credit for utilities, they're paying them directly, and you're upset that you're not getting a windfall at the expense of the taxpayer? I doubt that there's a dry eye in the house.
Again, you can object to the social worker's supervisor that you feel she misled you, acted inappropriately, etc. - have you done so, and if so to what effect?