Presidential Dollars Not Accepted at Post Office

My question involves a consumer law issue in the State of: California

The U.S. Post office will not accept Presidential dollars as payment for a U.S. money order. According to their website http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/503.htm#1150680

14.2.3 Purchase Method
Money orders must be paid for in one of these ways:

a. In U.S. currency and coins (in any amount).
b. With established traveler’s checks payable in U.S. dollars if the purchase is for at least 50% of the value of the traveler’s checks.
c. With ATM/debit cards at locations approved by USPS Corporate Treasury where the customer’s personal identification number must be entered on a keypad connected to a credit/debit terminal.

What should I do? How can I force them to accept Presidential dollars for a money order?

Payment, as with any mercantile establishment, is thier business decision. Although currency/coins are acceptable, they can pick and choose.

I have looked this up before for other research and, at least in terms of a business, store, etc., they are not required to accept cash as a method of payment, that is straight form the U.S. Treasury's web page.

Yes, you would think the govt. would be different, but seems not?

To answer the Q of how to make them accept them, either file a direct complaint with that office or head man in DC. Filing suit to attempt to have an Order issued to make them comply is, although a legal possibility, it is basically over the top.

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Quoting BOR

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Payment, as with any mercantile establishment, is thier business decision. Although currency/coins are acceptable, they can pick and choose.

I have looked this up before for other research and, at least in terms of a business, store, etc., they are not required to accept cash as a method of payment, that is straight form the U.S. Treasury's web page.

Yes, you would think the govt. would be different, but seems not?

To answer the Q of how to make them accept them, either file a direct complaint with that office or head man in DC. Filing suit to attempt to have an Order issued to make them comply is, although a legal possibility, it is basically over the top.

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Everything I have read requires the US government to accept all "legal tender" and cannot limit the denominations. . Additionally, from the USPS' own website, they accept:

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14.2.3 Purchase Method
Money orders must be paid for in one of these ways:

a. In U.S. currency and coins (in any amount).
b. With established traveler’s checks payable in U.S. dollars if the purchase is for at least 50% of the value of the traveler’s checks.
c. With ATM/debit cards at locations approved by USPS Corporate Treasury where the customer’s personal identification number must be entered on a keypad connected to a credit/debit terminal.

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so between they being a federal agency and within their own rules, I see no right to refuse to accept dollar coins as payment.

I would either contact the postmaster at the office involved and if that doesn't give the results sought, contact the postmaster generals office.

They also do not have to accept $900.00 dollars in loose penies, or even rolled for that matter, for a Money Order, so while cash/coins is a method of payment, they can choose which method. Now the Preseidential dollars not being accepted I guess depends on the money order amount unless they have been specifically told not to accept them?

Again, 900 PD's is a tad overboard, as a comparative example.

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Quoting BOR

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They also do not have to accept $900.00 dollars in loose penies, or even rolled for that matter, for a Money Order, so while cash/coins is a method of payment, they can choose which method. Now the Preseidential dollars not being accepted I guess depends on the money order amount unless they have been specifically told not to accept them?

Again, 900 PD's is a tad overboard, as a comparative example.

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I would disagree with them being able to refuse the pennies. Since the Coinage Act 1965, there is no right for a fed agency to restrict payment to any specific amount of coins. They are all considered "legal tender" and as such, valid for all federal debts. I tried to find validation for such a claim before and cannot find one.

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Quoting jk

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I would disagree with them being able to refuse the pennies. Since the Coinage Act 1965, there is no right for a fed agency to restrict payment to any specific amount of coins. They are all considered "legal tender" and as such, valid for all federal debts. I tried to find validation for such a claim before and cannot find one.

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Can you cite "specifically" within that act, and or case law, that MANDATES a federal agency must accept the pennies or Susan B's or Presidential dollars or Ikes. If not specific in nature, citing that it is legal tender is not a mandate for acceptance.

Although I quoted a merchant is not required to accept cash/coins, per the Treasury web site, the law I read is the same for the govt?

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Quoting jk

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I would disagree with them being able to refuse the pennies. Since the Coinage Act 1965, there is no right for a fed agency to restrict payment to any specific amount of coins. They are all considered "legal tender" and as such, valid for all federal debts. I tried to find validation for such a claim before and cannot find one.

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Actually several courts have ruled that the government does not have to accept payments via coinage that would be extreme or cause disruption to the services of the office. State v. Carroll, 1997 WL 118064 (Ohio App. 4 Dist) for example the courts held that the court clerk did have to accept pennies as payment of a $128 bill. The court reasoned "It defies logic and common sense that this Congress intended such a wooden and broad application of the statute beyond the control of the payee regardless of the circumstances." The Court clerk only had to accept such payments as to meet the legal requirement to do so and "provide a reasonable procedure for the place, time and manner of accepting fines consistent with the efficient operation of the clerk's office."

I'm sure there are other court cases to support the argument that the Postal service does not have to accept the dollar coins if the payment amount would encumber the office workers to undue hardship in processing the payment. If they are refusing to accept the coin for a postage stamp, that is a seperate manner.

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Quoting antrc170

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Actually several courts have ruled that the government does not have to accept payments via coinage that would be extreme or cause disruption to the services of the office. State v. Carroll, 1997 WL 118064 (Ohio App. 4 Dist) for example the courts held that the court clerk did have to accept pennies as payment of a $128 bill. The court reasoned "It defies logic and common sense that this Congress intended such a wooden and broad application of the statute beyond the control of the payee regardless of the circumstances." The Court clerk only had to accept such payments as to meet the legal requirement to do so and "provide a reasonable procedure for the place, time and manner of accepting fines consistent with the efficient operation of the clerk's office."

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Such would fall under what is known as the Absurdity doctrine in law, the common sense they mentioned. In the back of mind also I remember a case about accepting a huge amount of loose change proposed for payment, but this was to the IRS, not the PO.

As far as accepting a dollar coin for a stamp, it does seem they have to, but legally??

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Quoting BOR

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Can you cite "specifically" within that act, and or case law, that MANDATES a federal agency must accept the pennies or Susan B's or Presidential dollars or Ikes. If not specific in nature, citing that it is legal tender is not a mandate for acceptance.

Although I quoted a merchant is not required to accept cash/coins, per the Treasury web site, the law I read is the same for the govt?

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§ 5103. Legal tender

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.

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That obviously stands for what it is.

Then, barring a right given the government to control the specific coins, either in value or quantity, would allow an agent of the government to refuse any attempt at payment if they deemed it not an appropriate and acceptable quantity of items tendered. This would allow capricious and arbitrary decisions to cause payment to be refused. While antrc's case argues the silliness that the government would have intended the allowance of a payment of a debt in pennies, I argue that the founders would have believed that allowing some government agent to make such capricious and arbitrary decisions is more offensive than any act one may create by paying a large debt in small coins.

Then, additionally, we have to argue that when one refuses to accept payment of a debt (and reminding that the fed gov is mandated to accept coins and paper issued by the government as legal tender for all debts), that the refusal without statutory support would in fact cause the debt to be rendered null and void.

and antrc's citation bases their decision on common sense. Now, realistically, when has the government ever allowed common sense to be an acceptable defense? The government itself is the greatest abuser of any right to claim a defense of common sense.

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§ 5103. Legal tender

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.

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I know about the "legal tender" issue, but my Q was:

.....Can you cite "specifically" within that act, and or case law, that MANDATES a federal agency must accept the pennies or Susan B's or Presidential dollars or Ikes. If not specific in nature, citing that it is legal tender is not a mandate for acceptance.....

NOW, I am in concurrence that the Act certainly resounds of a mandate, except by case law as mentioned, but, in order to FORCE the PO to accept them, if administrative measures do not work, is a lawsuit.