Driver Abstract Says Valid when It Should Not (Chemical Refusal)
My question involves a driver's license issued by the State of: New York
After a chemical test refusal last year my license was revoked for 1 year or until 21, whichever is longer.
My revocation is over in a couple months, but I have a driver abstract from May 2011 that says it has been VALID for the past few months. I also have a driver abstract from November of 2010 that says it was suspended.:confused:
I am not sure which is correct, but the most recent abstract definitely says my license is valid. :cool:
I have had previous suspensions, and each one listed on my abstract says the date of suspension and the date it was cleared. My most recent abstract lists those, as well as my Revocation, but only the date of my Revocation. There is no mention of it being cleared/settled.
Can anyone help me out?
Here is a link to what a New York Driver abstract looks like and a description of it http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/forms/ds2421.pdf
Thanks a lot, sorry for the long post
Any and all help is appreciated!
Re: Driver Abstract Says Valid when It Should Not (Chemical Refusal)
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mchipper12
Can anyone help me out?
Yes, the NY DMV should be able to clearly and definitively answer any of your questions.
Re: Driver Abstract Says Valid when It Should Not (Chemical Refusal)
This is my second incident over a few years where the DMV made an error that would benefit me. When I asked them about it the last time, the woman over the phone told me "Oh your right, your license should be suspended, let me take care of that for you now".
So I would like to avoid the obvious solution of asking the DMV. I basically want to know what would come up if a police officer pulled me over and ran my license. If it came up as valid on their end, I would not mind taking advantage of their mistake.
Any other suggestions?
Re: Driver Abstract Says Valid when It Should Not (Chemical Refusal)
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mchipper12
So I would like to avoid the obvious solution of asking the DMV. I basically want to know what would come up if a police officer pulled me over and ran my license. If it came up as valid on their end, I would not mind taking advantage of their mistake.
Any other suggestions?
The problem with your idea is this: You have an abstract that you say states you are valid. Someone here says, "Oh, you might be okay then." You start driving again. What you don't know is that the NY DMV finds and fixes their mistake on their own. You get pulled over and hauled off to jail for driving while suspended. Oops!
Stop drinking and driving/driving while stoned/whatever you're on that you refuse to be tested. You realize if you keep this up you are looking at a possible lifetime revocation right?
Re: Driver Abstract Says Valid when It Should Not (Chemical Refusal)
I see what your saying, but could I be held liable for that? I know ignorance of the law is no excuse, but I thought you must be notified of your license status if it is changed/suspended/revoked.
The driver abstract that I got a couple weeks ago is the most recent notification I have from them concerning my license, and it says it is valid. If you check out the link I posted in the original thread, it says the record summary line is what is used to determine the current status of driving privileges. So wouldn't I not be at fault for going by what the DMV tells me?
And thank you for your advice. My previous suspensions were for speeding and tickets, nothing alcohol related. And concerning this case, my dad was a cop for 22 years and always reminded me not to take a breathalyzer. He told me plenty of stories about cops arresting people for DWI who were not drunk or did not blow high enough, and then the cops would have someone else blow who was.
I wasn't drinking so I shouldn't have refused, but I felt the cop had no reason to even suspect I was drinking. I got in an accident and the guy fled the scene, but I was the one who ended up getting arrested. My DWI case was obviously dropped, but unfortunately a refusal carries a revocation regardless of conviction.
Another idea (I'm scheming lol)
My license (the one the abstract says is valid) is going to expire in July. What if I went in to the DMV to renew, or tell them I lost it. If they issued me a new one without catching the revocation (which I really don't know if it is cleared or not), do you think that would suffice or work?
Re: Driver Abstract Says Valid when It Should Not (Chemical Refusal)
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=mchipper12;523983]I see what your saying, but could I be held liable for that? I know ignorance of the law is no excuse, but I thought you must be notified of your license status if it is changed/suspended/revoked.
you were notified, remember?
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After a chemical test refusal last year my license was revoked for 1 year or until 21, whichever is longer.
You pulling your abstract is not the state notifying you. Additionally, since you clearly understand it well enough to realize the revocation has not been rescinded, nothing else matters. The revocation you were given notice of has not been altered either by notice or on your abstract.
You are trying to rely on an error and even said so since the last time this happened, once you brought it to the DMV attention, the error was noticed and rectified.
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The driver abstract that I got a couple weeks ago is the most recent notification I have from them concerning my license, and it says it is valid. If you check out the link I posted in the original thread, it says the record summary line is what is used to determine the current status of driving privileges. So wouldn't I not be at fault for going by what the DMV tells me?
yes, you would be at fault, You know there is an error and ignoring it doesn't make it a fact.
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My license (the one the abstract says is valid) is going to expire in July. What if I went in to the DMV to renew, or tell them I lost it. If they issued me a new one without catching the revocation (which I really don't know if it is cleared or not), do you think that would suffice or work?
you seem to be misunderstanding the issue. Your privileges were revoked. The physical license does not confer privileges. So, when you get caught, they will likely revoke it again for committing fraud to obtain a license.
Re: Driver Abstract Says Valid when It Should Not (Chemical Refusal)
I see your point. And forgive me if I sound like I am being stubborn or hard-headed, but as you might understand, I just really want to drive again lol.
But if I had not mentioned in the thread that I thought there was an error, then I could reasonably believe that the information on my driver abstract is correct, and that my revocation has been settled.
I understand that all of your advice is the soundest, and more than likely correct, but if I were to drive, and get pulled over for whatever reason and had to go to court for this, don't you think I would have a case?
If I had never mentioned that I noticed an error, and if I never mentioned confusion on whether or not my revocation was cleared, it would then come down to relying on an official document from the DMV that states my driving privileges and license are valid.
I know this is a long-stretch, and I know I may sound like I do not want to listen to advice, but I just want to get as much clarity on as many scenarios as possible.
I am going to have a police officer run my license as he would during a normal stop and see what comes up. I will keep you guys posted, but I would really appreciate some more info/advice/opinion on this topic until then, as it might take a while.
Thanks a lot everyone, and again, I apologize if I seem like I am ignoring or do not want to here your advice.
Re: Driver Abstract Says Valid when It Should Not (Chemical Refusal)
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mchipper12
I see what your saying, but could I be held liable for that? I know ignorance of the law is no excuse, but I thought you must be notified of your license status if it is changed/suspended/revoked.
The driver abstract that I got a couple weeks ago is the most recent notification I have from them concerning my license, and it says it is valid. If you check out the link I posted in the original thread, it says the record summary line is what is used to determine the current status of driving privileges. So wouldn't I not be at fault for going by what the DMV tells me?
And thank you for your advice. My previous suspensions were for speeding and tickets, nothing alcohol related. And concerning this case, my dad was a cop for 22 years and always reminded me not to take a breathalyzer. He told me plenty of stories about cops arresting people for DWI who were not drunk or did not blow high enough, and then the cops would have someone else blow who was.
I wasn't drinking so I shouldn't have refused, but I felt the cop had no reason to even suspect I was drinking. I got in an accident and the guy fled the scene, but I was the one who ended up getting arrested. My DWI case was obviously dropped, but unfortunately a refusal carries a revocation regardless of conviction.
Another idea (I'm scheming lol)
My license (the one the abstract says is valid) is going to expire in July. What if I went in to the DMV to renew, or tell them I lost it. If they issued me a new one without catching the revocation (which I really don't know if it is cleared or not), do you think that would suffice or work?
I'm quoting this separately for effect:
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mchipper12
... my dad was a cop for 22 years and always reminded me not to take a breathalyzer...
Nice!!! This is instead of reminding you not to drink and drive... Yeah, I did read the part that you were not drinking! :rolleyes:
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mchipper12
... and then the cops would have someone else blow who was...
Right, because cops always have drunk people waiting on the ready just to blow... Why would a cop risk his career by involving a third (drunk) person in his fraud when he can simply falsify the record? (not something that ANY cop I know would do).
You're obviousl looking for someone to tell you how to beat the system; how to drive, when in reality, you know you shouldn't be. That is not going to happen here and even if it were, ultimately, YOU are responsible and will be held accountable for your own actions.
And by the way, you WERE notified of your suspension; first line from your first post: "After a chemical test refusal last year my license was revoked for 1 year or until 21, whichever is longer".
So unless you're going to check your abstract every time you start the ignition, there is no guarantee that the system is not going to get updated when you least expected.
Re: Driver Abstract Says Valid when It Should Not (Chemical Refusal)
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That Guy
I'm quoting this separately for effect:
Nice!!! This is instead of reminding you not to drink and drive... Yeah, I did read the part that you were not drinking! :rolleyes:
My sister died in a car accident with a drunk driver in 98', so my dad didn't have to do to much preaching about the dangers of drinking and driving. But that is besides the point, just like your original statement was. But I thought I'd include it anyway for effect...:)
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Right, because cops always have drunk people waiting on the ready just to blow...
How long were you a cop? If you were never or are not a cop, how do you know what they do and do not do? Some cops takes bribes, shake down people, gamble on the job, falsify records, and some cops DRINK ON THE JOB.
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Why would a cop risk his career by involving a third (drunk) person in his fraud when he can simply falsify the record?
"Simply falsify the record". What are you talking about? How do you falsify a breathalyzer? Oh wait, I know, get someone else to blow? And how can you grant a cop leeway in falsifying records in comparison to having someone else take a breathalyzer? Either way, it is FRAUD and, and both are a serious risk to a cops career:confused:. Many of the stories my father told me concerned the arresting officer being under the influence and taking the breathalyzer himself.
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(not something that ANY cop I know would do)
Please see response to second quote.
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You're obviousl looking for someone to tell you how to beat the system; how to drive, when in reality, you know you shouldn't be. That is not going to happen here and even if it were, ultimately, YOU are responsible and will be held accountable for your own actions.
And by the way, you WERE notified of your suspension; first line from your first post: "After a chemical test refusal last year my license was revoked for 1 year or until 21, whichever is longer".
So unless you're going to check your abstract every time you start the ignition, there is no guarantee that the system is not going to get updated when you least expected.
Now this is sound advice. Everything else, completely useless and unnecessary.
I'm just curious how often the DMV updates their records though. The only reason I asked for the second abstract was because I got a notice from the DMV saying I failed to pay a fee. After I paid the fee, I requested the abstract, and my status was changed from suspended to valid.
Not saying you aren't right though, it would definitely be at my own risk, and it is a serious risk that I do not know if I am going to take or not.
Thanks, any other opinions?
Re: Driver Abstract Says Valid when It Should Not (Chemical Refusal)
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I'm just curious how often the DMV updates their records though. The only reason I asked for the second abstract was because I got a notice from the DMV saying I failed to pay a fee. After I paid the fee, I requested the abstract, and my status was changed from suspended to valid.
on the record summary line which is immediately above the section titled "Activity", there are three entries.
1. License class:
2. status
3. expiration
what word follows; status