GPS Tracking Without a Search Warrant

Quote:

---

Quoting jk

---

exactly; so why is it illegal for a private citizen to use them if it is not required for the police to obtain a warrant. The laws are written to protect an individuals rights so that would mean the the state apparently believes it is a right of a citizen to be able to not be tracked constantly.

---

You will have to ask the United States Supreme Court.

But, as I said, states are free to restrict this as they see fit. While the USSC standard would appear to be that it is permissible, the state of CA has decided they do no want to permit it for ordinary citizens.

Law enforcement in my state can also often record conversations without the second party's consent - even over the phone even though a private person cannot generally do so.

State's can hold tighter standards if they wish.

Quote:

---

that means a vehicle co-owned by a couple is fair game for either party to install a tracking device. I would suspect the intent of the law is to protect a driver from a person who would be considering a violent action against them. Since a married couple getting a divorce so often falls under that situation, it seems to ignore the fact that many vehicles are co-owned by both partners in the marriage.

---

In which case the "victim" might be able to argue that it is stalking under the right fact set. Likewise, the "victim" can obtain a restraining order preventing the act, or, seek to re-register or title the vehicle in his or her name alone if they can.

WHY the states and the courts have permitted something is something you will have to ask the individual courts and legislatures.

Quote:

---

=cdwjava;497908]

Law enforcement in my state can also often record conversations without the second party's consent - even over the phone even though a private person cannot generally do so.

---

without a warrant?

Quote:

---

In which case the "victim" might be able to argue that it is stalking under the right fact set. Likewise, the "victim" can obtain a restraining order preventing the act, or, seek to re-register or title the vehicle in his or her name alone if they can.

---

if it meets the requirements of stalking. In itself, I believe it was a mistake in the writing of the law that allowed a loophole.
a

Quote:

---

Quoting jk

---

without a warrant?

---

Yep.

We're not talking about a wiretap, we're talking about a conversation with an officer, or, a pretext phone call with a victim, co-conspirator, etc. on our end and the suspect on the other - that sort of thing. John Q. Public cannot generally do that (though sometimes they can - there are legal exceptions) but we can. (more under PC 633)

Quote:

---

if it meets the requirements of stalking. In itself, I believe it was a mistake in the writing of the law that allowed a loophole.

---

By itself, no. But, in conjunction with other actions such as Tweets and texts to the "victim" informing her that he knows her every move it can be. We made just such a case last year ... guy was freaky scary.

Quote:

---

By itself, no. But, in conjunction with other actions such as Tweets and texts to the "victim" informing her that he knows her every move it can be. We made just such a case last year ... guy was freaky scary

---

In such a case, yes, I can see it as stalking. The problem I would see is a person that is not stalking as such but simply obtaining information, unnoticed, and at some time comes after the watched party. I can imagine such confrontations rarely ending well. There is simply no warning of the impending confrontation to as to be able to prepare or avoid them.

sounds like they are using GPS to detect location, are they sending this information or logging it.

if it is a log I can see GPS information as being admissible, but if the GPS location is sent via Wireless (Cell or HAM or the like) it can be detected + jammed and manipulated.

I sometimes wonder if I still live in America.

Quote:

---

Quoting jk

---

In such a case, yes, I can see it as stalking. The problem I would see is a person that is not stalking as such but simply obtaining information, unnoticed, and at some time comes after the watched party. I can imagine such confrontations rarely ending well. There is simply no warning of the impending confrontation to as to be able to prepare or avoid them.

---

It would be nearly impossible to catch a suspect who was doing this unless they were Tweeting, texting, or showing their knowledge of the movements. Even then, it could be impossible to show just how they knew. In the case we worked last year, we swept the victim's car twice and found no devices emitting a signal. So, either the suspect used a very sophisticated device that was able to sleep or transmitted on a frequency we couldn't detect, or, he was using her cell phone GPS somehow. We could never show definitively HOW he was tracking her, but he clearly was given the messages he sent her.

Bottom line is that someone could probably get away with putting a tracker on someone else's vehicle. The only real limiting factor is power consumption (battery life).

Quote:

---

Quoting cdwjava

---

It would be nearly impossible to catch a suspect who was doing this unless they were Tweeting, texting, or showing their knowledge of the movements. Even then, it could be impossible to show just how they knew. In the case we worked last year, we swept the victim's car twice and found no devices emitting a signal. So, either the suspect used a very sophisticated device that was able to sleep or transmitted on a frequency we couldn't detect, or, he was using her cell phone GPS somehow. We could never show definitively HOW he was tracking her, but he clearly was given the messages he sent her.

Bottom line is that someone could probably get away with putting a tracker on someone else's vehicle. The only real limiting factor is power consumption (battery life).

---

There are dozens of apps for phones that allow a person to track a phone, like this one. I think Sprint still has their "Family finder" which allows the account holder to be able to track all of the phones on their contract.





as to GPS trackers; there are some that are motion activated so they will only transmit while the car is moving. They often have a timer that shuts them down after some predetermined time (30-120 seconds). That saves battery life as well. If a person it creative, they can tap into the vehicles power so it would essentially never run out of battery power. A little electronic wizardry will take care of any unmatched voltage situation.

If a person doesn't want to do active tracking, they can get a GPS recorder that simply records their location. The person would have to retrieve the unit and download the data to a computer.

plus there is good old fashion simply following a vehicle. If a person employs the assistance of others, you can follow a person quite closely without them ever realizing it.

Quote:

---

Quoting jk

---

There are dozens of apps for phones that allow a person to track a phone, like this one. I think Sprint still has their "Family finder" which allows the account holder to be able to track all of the phones on their contract.

---

Yes. I know that. There were ways, we just could no show WHICH way - especially since she changed phones twice (he bought the first phone for her, so that was a no brainer), and he allegedly never had those new numbers. But, they had enough mutual friends that it was likely he obtained it anyway and then finagled a way to track it.

Quote:

---

as to GPS trackers; there are some that are motion activated so they will only transmit while the car is moving. They often have a timer that shuts them down after some predetermined time (30-120 seconds). That saves battery life as well. If a person it creative, they can tap into the vehicles power so it would essentially never run out of battery power. A little electronic wizardry will take care of any unmatched voltage situation.

---

We knew that as well and checked both for power drains and any devices attached all over it ... we weren't new to this sort of thing.

Quote:

---

If a person doesn't want to do active tracking, they can get a GPS recorder that simply records their location. The person would have to retrieve the unit and download the data to a computer.

---

This was active. She was getting pretty much live updates on her journeys in some instances. The car seemed to have been the common denominator and the suspect was wealthy and a techno geek, so he could pretty much do whatever we hypothesized ... which made it that much harder.

Quote:

---

plus there is good old fashion simply following a vehicle. If a person employs the assistance of others, you can follow a person quite closely without them ever realizing it.

---

We ruled that out for a number of reasons.

Ultimately we had what appeared to be a solid stalking case .. but, she clammed up and went back to him ... sugar daddy and all. I suspect she and he came to some sort of arrangement. Kind of a pisser to have invested some time into this and then let it drop.

Quote:

---

cdwjava;497969]Yes. I know that. There were ways, we just could no show WHICH way - especially since she changed phones twice (he bought the first phone for her, so that was a no brainer), and he allegedly never had those new numbers. But, they had enough mutual friends that it was likely he obtained it anyway and then finagled a way to track it.


We knew that as well and checked both for power drains and any devices attached all over it ... we weren't new to this sort of thing.


This was active. She was getting pretty much live updates on her journeys in some instances. The car seemed to have been the common denominator and the suspect was wealthy and a techno geek, so he could pretty much do whatever we hypothesized ... which made it that much harder.
.

---

Now you have me intrigued. I would love to know what got passed all the investigations.

I would have enjoyed trying to frustrate his surveillance efforts. For just about any form of surveillance, there are means to block them or at least make their tracking worthless. Obviously as a police force, you have a lot of limitations in time and money and "games" you can play so it is harder for you, especially since your intent is to catch the criminal rather than simply toying with them.

Quote:

---

Ultimately we had what appeared to be a solid stalking case .. but, she clammed up and went back to him ... sugar daddy and all. I suspect she and he came to some sort of arrangement. Kind of a pisser to have invested some time into this and then let it drop.

---

:eek: I surely hope she doesn't need help in the future. I am sure you would not intentionally, or even with any passive disregard, ignore a call for help but actions like hers surely have to put an investigator in a different mindset. Her crying about the wolf stalking her and then moving into the wolf's den isn't going to make everybody all excited about helping the next time she thinks he is going to devour her. I can only imagine the frustration you guys deal with when things like this happen. I suspect it is similar with domestic violence cases in general when you see an abused spouse return home with "but s/he loves me. Things will be better...this time"

Quote:

---

Quoting jk

---

Now you have me intrigued. I would love to know what got passed all the investigations.

---

We suspect he had removed any devices and ceased openly tracking her about the time she contacted us. She reported no more contacts with him like she had received only a day or two earlier. He may have seen where she went and then stopped, but that would have been tough since she and I met first away from the office, and then she had a friend bring her to my office without her cell phone or car.

Quote:

---

I would have enjoyed trying to frustrate his surveillance efforts. For just about any form of surveillance, there are means to block them or at least make their tracking worthless. Obviously as a police force, you have a lot of limitations in time and money and "games" you can play so it is harder for you, especially since your intent is to catch the criminal rather than simply toying with them.

---

We barely have time to follow up on cases, much less waste time on something that requires a great deal of time and effort to even make a weak case.

Quote:

---

:eek: I surely hope she doesn't need help in the future. I am sure you would not intentionally, or even with any passive disregard, ignore a call for help but actions like hers surely have to put an investigator in a different mindset. Her crying about the wolf stalking her and then moving into the wolf's den isn't going to make everybody all excited about helping the next time she thinks he is going to devour her. I can only imagine the frustration you guys deal with when things like this happen. I suspect it is similar with domestic violence cases in general when you see an abused spouse return home with "but s/he loves me. Things will be better...this time"

---

Domestic situations are the worst, and they are why so many officers don't get excited about them. The victim recanting or changing their story is about as likely as the sun rising. It can be quite frustrating.