School Violating Free Speech Rights and Sending Out Defamatory Letters

My question involves education law in the State of: California

I posted here a while back, but the thread is gone, and the situation has escalated.

I filed a grievance against my English teacher. She violated rules which demand that students be issued a syllabus with all expected assignments and their due dates. The rules also demand that changes to the syllabus be clearly communicated to students.

First off, assignments were only given general due dates, i.e. week one, week two, etc. Secondly, she was absent four times during the semester, and assignments began to get randomized, and the new due dates were NOT communicated to students.

I ended up being absent myself on a day when the teacher decided to administer a 100 point in-class essay that was due, according to the syllabus, almost two months earlier. In order to get an A in the class, I would have only needed 35 points of those 100. Because I was absent, I received a zero and got a B.

My grievance alleged all of the aforementioned, and more with specific regard to the teacher's coherence. I genuinely believe this aging teacher to be having cognitive problems due to her age.

This is where the situation escalated. Violating school policy which says that I have the right to question witnesses during my grievance, the hearing committee would not allow it and my claims were denied, specifically citing that I had no witnesses to support my statements.

Upon appeal, I was invited by the president of the school to first meet with him to discuss the issue. I was told when I arrived for the meeting that I was partaking in my appeal, not just a meeting to chat about the issue. I have an e-mail proving that this was not what I was informed of. Immediately, the president smiled and said that he was denying the appeal because I came unprepared. When I told him that I'd be willing to make my case without documents, he said it was too late. I demanded to have my promised meeting, and genuinely not in a loud or belligerent way...and the president called campus police to have me removed from the building. The teacher then filed an official complaint against me, which ended in nothing more than a "verbal warning".

Soon after, I printed up flyers, which the school approved, and I posted them around the school, attempting to locate witnesses from my class who could testify to some other entity about the situation. Despite the school approving them, they tore them all down after I left. The next day, I was threatened, saying that my flyers were "Slanderous", and that they would damage my school record if I posted them again.

I changed the flyers and got them approved AGAIN. I continuously visited the school and got more flyers stamped and put them up, and every time I left, they were removed. I even had one of the deans telling me to leave the flyers with her, promising that she would put them up so i didn't have to keep driving back. I didn't even ask her to do this...she offered. I visited later that night just to check, and they were still removed from the doors. The next morning, even more were gone and nobody could tell me where my flyers were.

I eventually got video tape of school faculty removing them, and the faculty member would only say that "English department told me to take them down".

I finally sent an exhausted letter to the school, telling them that they had won for this semester (the semester is now over), but that they should be ashamed of themselves.

The recipient of the letter shot one back to me AND some senior officials at the school, telling me that I should go get psychological help, and even sent a list of therapists that I could contact. Ironically...this was the same woman who accused me of slander. And yes, I know written defamation is libel =/.

Catching wind of this most recent letter, my parents are now involved, and have sent their own letter to RCC and forwarded it to two family attorneys.

While I wait for a response from them, I am curious to see what people here have to say.

Just so you all know, I am a very good student, not uncommonly finishing first in my classes. I got straight A's this semester, and would have done so last semester as well, were it not for that English class.

I apologize if there is a rule about external links, but I have written about this story at campuscorruption.blogspot.com, and update #3 has videos as well.

Thanks for everyone's time.

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So, was the statement in the letter one of suggestion which could based simply upon their opinion or did they in fact state you have a psychological problem?

Never mind, after reading the specific letter, I do not see it as libelous. I would suggest they find your actions a bit obsessive and they were directing you to a place that you can express yourself.

and Greta did apologize.

What right do you have to post the fliers? Unless there is something that mandates they must allow the posting, I do not see taking them down as anything you can legally protest. Is there a specific manner or location you can post fliers? Any school I have ever attended would not allow fliers on doors. There have always been bulletin boards for that purpose that had to be used. Unless you hired somebody to put up fliers, they had no duty to follow through on their offer.


and about libel; your letter about Mrs. Herr surely is pushing the limits, if not actually having gone beyond. Your statements, unless they can be proven, are damaging to her. You haven't even couched the statements in opinion but represented them as factual.

to your claims of such a specific syllabus; have a link to something on their website that would support your claim of such specificity in the syllabus?

most importantly (and thank you for taking the time to delve into my entire blog), I do have a link to the rules regarding the syllabus, yes.

I am copying and pasting this from the comments section of my blog (I suspect you read only the blogs and not the comments)...the link is as the bottom of the pasted section:

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The following is an excerpt from the RCCD Faculty Handbook, regarding syllabi:

'The Western Association of Schools and Colleges, which accredits RCCD, requires instructors to prepare and distribute to their students at the first class meeting a syllabus detailing course information and policies. The Course Syllabus provides students with information about course expectations and protects faculty from unwarranted grievances from students. Students have a right to know how they may successfully complete the class, and if they perceive any injustice has taken place, they may file an academic appeal. When changes occur during a term, revisions to the syllabus should be noted. If an instructor says "I told them...," this may or may not be considered sufficient in a grievance. However, written guidelines leave little room for argument and, in fact, become the instructor's contract with the student.'

Furthermore, please note that the 'syllabus checklist' in this same handbook requires that syllabi include 'assignments and their due dates'.

I feel that I have satisfactorily shown now that the issue here remains that students were unaware of an impending assignment, and not that they were absent when an [instructor] happened to decide to administer an exam. If you would like to view what I've quoted yourself, please visit: http://www.rccdfaculty.net/handbook/016.htm
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Furthermore, rest assured there is another link directly through RCC's site which states that any syllabus changes MUST be clearly communicated to students. I will take the time to find this again, if you question my memory.

PLEASE, also know that I am not trying to substantiate libel claims against the school. I am merely pointing out the irony and the double standards which are highlighted by the school's accusations and subsequent letters, alluding to psychological instability.

While you are correct, the woman may in fact be merely concerned about an obsessive compulsive nature (although I do not believe this is likely), I hardly see how that was the time or the place to point out a perceived fault in my personality, one which poses no threat to anyone, and in complete replacement of an actual response to my letter to her. The act of sending it to other officials and not just myself further perpetuates my belief that her intentions are not as genuine as she might insist.

Again, I did not post that part of my argument to ask if I have a libel claim against the school. I am just pointing out how unprofessional the responses to my complaint have been.

As far as flyers, I posted them on bulletin boards on the doors. I did not post them anywhere that was not an offical posting area. And yes, there are certain rules to posting flyers. The rules are simply that the flyers must be approved first by the Student Activities office. I'm not sure if it's in the video that I posted of Virginia, but I do have one where she says that I have the right to have my flyers up since they were approved by the school. I could do further research to see if that is in the school code somewhere like the syllabus information, BUT....like the libel issue, I am not really trying to substantiate a claim of free speech violation here. I apologize, but I was just having a hard time coming up with a thread title succinct enough for this entire story. I include it in my story just to further show the lengths that this school is going to in trying to keep me quiet.

I was very careful not to state anything as factual that I was not witness to. Whether I end up finding another witness to support my claims is one issue, but I can definitely tell you that anything I did not portary as opinion IS NOT OPINION. I have no fear of being found guilty of any libel or slander claims.

Since I've strayed a bit, I want to stress again that my MAIN complaint is about the syllabus. If the link I gave you is not sufficient, please let me know what would be, and I'll try to dig it up for you.

Students do not have unabridged free speech rights at school. I read the link *and the handbook provided) & do not think that the OP has a true & concrete basis for any suit.

I should also point this out...

The same link I just gave you has a template for teachers to hopefully follow in creating their syllabus. This is a quote from the template:

"(Never lock yourself in to an absolute minute by minute schedule as the syllabus is a contract between you and the student. You may be ill, there may be emergencies. Always state that the schedule is tentative.)" That last sentence is in bold in the document.

I went into my student e-mail and checked my teacher's syllabus, and in fact it never says anywhere that the schedule is tentative. I then remembered that I have an e-mail from a school staffer who directly said that the teacher would be talked to because her syllabus should have said that it was tentative.

"There were other issues regarding this instructor's compliance to the schedule (should have been titled "Tentative Schedule"), and her own absences, that might have compounded the issue. These have been brought to light and Ms. Reible will forward those to the appropriate personnel, and will most likely speak with Ms. Herr regarding the issues. These are, however, secondary to your primary concern, which is the grade you earned, and received, for the course."

So somehow this person admits that the teacher broke a school policy that is termed necessary because a student has "a right to know how they may successfully complete the class"...and then she goes on to say that the violations are completely separate from the grade that I received...which I am contesting specifically BECAUSE I was not made aware of what was expected of me to successfully complete the course (i.e. when that 100 point assignment was due).

It also says that the need for a syllabus is from another organization, not from the school . The school does not state that it is mandatory for the school. The OP needs to drop this and move on with his academics.

Well, here's an update for anyone who may care...

Just watch the couple minute video of a college official violating my rights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSexNbSSvMI

Or you can read the entire blog post that goes with it: http://campuscorruption.blogspot.com...mber-11th.html

You will note that FERPA says that the school "MAY" release directory info, not that they SHALL or MUST. Thus, the release of that info is discretionary only if they have given the student sufficient time to request the info not be disclosed.

I have to ask, is all of this worth it? Maybe it's me, but it seems that this is a lot of angst, time and effort over very little. I would recommend that you transfer and move on.

I never claimed they "shall or must", so I'm not sure why you said that and don't really know how to respond other than to say I never said that...

and it's worth it, because i'm not just doing it for myself

thanks

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Quoting can i major in activism

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I never claimed they "shall or must", so I'm not sure why you said that and don't really know how to respond other than to say I never said that...

and it's worth it, because i'm not just doing it for myself

thanks

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You quoted FERPA in your blog and implied that they had to make the other student records available to. They do not. If you understand that they do not have to give you squat with regards to student contact info, then okay.

As for the rest, well, knock yourself out. It seems a lot of effort for virtually nothing ... but, it's your windmill, and your time and money to spend.

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Quoting cdwjava

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You quoted FERPA in your blog and implied that they had to make the other student records available to. They do not. If you understand that they do not have to give you squat with regards to student contact info, then okay.

As for the rest, well, knock yourself out. It seems a lot of effort for virtually nothing ... but, it's your windmill, and your time and money to spend.

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So we've gone from me saying it to implying it. Backpedal much?

I know what the law says, and I know that I would get nowhere by ignoring that and pretending that it demands things from the school that it does not.

Speaking of knocking yourself out with effort toward nothing, why are you posting in here? You're not helping, and are in fact contributing to the distortion of what others will think i am here to accomplish. Please go have your bad day in another thread, maybe one where your "expertise" as a "nor cal cop sergeant" has some bearing.

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Quoting can i major in activism

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So we've gone from me saying it to implying it. Backpedal much?

I know what the law says, and I know that I would get nowhere by ignoring that and pretending that it demands things from the school that it does not.

Speaking of knocking yourself out with effort toward nothing, why are you posting in here? You're not helping, and are in fact contributing to the distortion of what others will think i am here to accomplish. Please go have your bad day in another thread, maybe one where your "expertise" as a "nor cal cop sergeant" has some bearing.

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It is clear to see why you are having such difficulty with the officials at your college. Self important, know-it-all youngster with little sense of decorum and a huge sense of self importance.

Perhaps you should return to your blog where you can opine all you want. Leave the law to others.

Oh, and if you feel you have a cause of action against the college, I am sure there are hordes of attorneys doing cartwheels outside your door begging to represent you, right? ;)

Good luck.

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Quoting cdwjava

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It is clear to see why you are having such difficulty with the officials at your college. Self important, know-it-all youngster with little sense of decorum and a huge sense of self importance.

Perhaps you should return to your blog where you can opine all you want. Leave the law to others.

Oh, and if you feel you have a cause of action against the college, I am sure there are hordes of attorneys doing cartwheels outside your door begging to represent you, right? ;)

Good luck.

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Wow, what is wrong with you? You're clearly just offended, and you SHOULD be. I know you've been here for years, and that regardless of being a cop, you spend much of your time here, speaking to almost anyone who posts the same way you're speaking to me.

You shouldn't be giving advice on this site any more than you should probably be a cop.

And talk about know-it-alls.....you think you're so witty, yet the best insult you could think of was to point out that I probably don't have legal representation, which would apply to anyone who posts on this site, considering representation would immediately advise against coming anywhere like this.

Are you going to quote the law and make some sense in this thread, or are you going to stay on your high horse, thinking you ARE the law, and coming across as a bitter washout? Despite how long you've been here, not a single forum user seems to be supporting your stance, and you have totally ruined my thread. Unless you have something with substance to post, I'm going to delete this thread and take my battle elsewhere.

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Quoting can i major in activism

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Despite how long you've been here, not a single forum user seems to be supporting your stance...

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Not that it needs to be said but you are way off... :rolleyes:

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Quoting can i major in activism

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.. you have totally ruined my thread...

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The part I cannot, for the life of me, figure out is how a 12 year old kid (you certainly act like one) is already attending a Community College!

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Quoting can i major in activism

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I'm going to delete this thread and take my battle elsewhere.

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Good luck with the "delete" part... And before you take your -losing- battle elsewhere, you might want to drop the self righteous attitude and the huge sense of entitlement that you carry around with it. The world does NOT revolve around you... Seriously!!!

Sonny, most of us are older, better educated, and possess a great deal more real world knowledge than you do. One day I would hope that you learn to respect those who are older, wiser, and may well have knowledge that can be of use to you. When you choose to attack and belittle others you do no service to whatever cause you think you serve.

Good luck.

Ok, so basically no law is going to be quoted and you're going to continue pretending that I attacked you and wasn't just defending your putting words in my mouth to shoot down my argument.

Take care.

He never said you said " Must or shall." Never. The words "You said must or shall" were never written by him. He simply clarified, since you misunderstood him, that he meant you seemed to be implying that FERPA has requirements it does not. I read your blog as well and can see where someone unfamiliar with the law might come to that erroneous conclusion.

You are free to continue your fight for what you believe in but should prepare yourself for the following realities of adult life: It ain't always fair. Sometimes you're the windshield and sometimes you're the bug.

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Quoting free9man

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He never said you said " Must or shall." Never. The words "You said must or shall" were never written by him. He simply clarified, since you misunderstood him, that he meant you seemed to be implying that FERPA has requirements it does not. I read your blog as well and can see where someone unfamiliar with the law might come to that erroneous conclusion.

You are free to continue your fight for what you believe in but should prepare yourself for the following realities of adult life: It ain't always fair. Sometimes you're the windshield and sometimes you're the bug.

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You guys are so weird...

No matter how many times you say that I stated or implied that the school is required to release that information, it's not going to become true. At the very most, I implied that the school SHOULD release the information, not that they are required to. Hopefully you are able to discern the difference between the two.

And before you argue about whether the school SHOULD release the information:

"(c) Any district may, in its discretion, limit or deny the release of specific categories of directory information based upon a determination of the best interests of students."

That is taken from the California Code of Regulations. As you can see, the determination must be based upon the best interest of students, and cannot be arbitrary and at will. However, the e-mail telling me that my request was being denied says that I'm being denied because the official simply considers my grievance process completed, a reason not supported by the law. My grade and the grades of other students are at stake here, and whether or not my grievance process was completed has no bearing on that fact.

Not to mention the fact that school policy allows me to have witnesses support me during a grievance, and since the school has never allowed me to contact witnesses, my grievance process remains uncompleted.

As soon as someone here wants to actually DISCUSS an aspect of my situation, just let me know. Assuming that you are much older than me and that said age difference shows that I am wrong is not a valid point to make....ever.

nobody wants to discuss your situation. This is not a general discussion site. If you believe you have been wronged, it sounds like it's time to go out and hire a lawyer to fight for you.

What do you expect here? Nothing anyone says here is going to make any difference. Obviously you just like to hear yourself talk.

If you have exhausted your administrative remedies, then get yourself a lawyer and go to court. Stop your whining and take legal action. Of course, you need actual grounds and the law. I suggest you start by learning how to read case law to see if you even have a cause of action and save up your allowance to pay for that attorney. You can get a newbie lawyer for $250 an hour. A family law attorney will cost you $350 an hour. Constitutional law about $500. Libel, IP about $750. You better have one heck of a student job or family allowance.

Good luck.

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Quoting jk

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nobody wants to discuss your situation. This is not a general discussion site. If you believe you have been wronged, it sounds like it's time to go out and hire a lawyer to fight for you.

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Not a general discussion site? Thanks for the info. Saying what this site ISN'T doesn't prove what my thread IS. I'm in the education law section of a legal forum, asking about education law. You wouldn't happen to know any, would you?

Since you have not received anything you consider helpful, perhaps that should be an indication to you that a. no one here is able to help you or b. no here wants to help you because of your attitude. Either one means you may continue posting about your situation but no help may be forthcoming. You might get lucky and a new member will come along with knowledge/expertise in this area.

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Quoting can i major in activism

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Not a general discussion site? Thanks for the info. Saying what this site ISN'T doesn't prove what my thread IS. I'm in the education law section of a legal forum, asking about education law. You wouldn't happen to know any, would you?

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After the recent travesty in Arizona and recalling your ramblings, I had to come back here to be sure you were still posting. There is an uncanny similarity in your claims and those of Jared Loughner even to the point about each of you making a huge ordeal out of being given a B in a class and continued complaints that your Constitutional rights are being violated.

Given the similarities, I suspect your actions might bring you some attention you are not looking for.

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Quoting free9man

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Since you have not received anything you consider helpful, perhaps that should be an indication to you that a. no one here is able to help you or b. no here wants to help you because of your attitude. Either one means you may continue posting about your situation but no help may be forthcoming. You might get lucky and a new member will come along with knowledge/expertise in this area.

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Most reasonable thing i've heard from you guys so far, and I agree.

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Quoting jk

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After the recent travesty in Arizona and recalling your ramblings, I had to come back here to be sure you were still posting. There is an uncanny similarity in your claims and those of Jared Loughner even to the point about each of you making a huge ordeal out of being given a B in a class and continued complaints that your Constitutional rights are being violated.

Given the similarities, I suspect your actions might bring you some attention you are not looking for.

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I've already considered the possibility that the school would try to get me in trouble by comparing me to that guy. As far as I'm concerned, reporting me to the police or something when I've been coherent and acting fully within my rights thus far would be a very poor move.

Other than both coming from a community college and having issues with administration, we are nothing alike. That boy was anti-social. I am not. He apparently had a fascination with firearms. I own none. He was kicked out of his college. I am attending, with a 3.72 GPA. His claims about violations of law were unfounded, and mainly seemed to be made up of incoherent generalities. I, however, am able to point out specific instances of law violation. For example:

In response to my flyers at the school, the Board of Trustees has changed its posting policy. Whereas, the old policy stated that we could use any bulletin board in the school:

http://www.rcc.edu/administration/bo...icies/5120.pdf

the new policy restricts posting to the ONE available bulletin board that falls under the new regulations:

http://www.rcc.edu/administration/bo...s/5550BPAP.pdf

Why did the old policy allow posting on ALL bulletin boards? Well because it's illegal for policy to NOT allow this:

72120 of the California Education code:

The governing board of a community college district shall
adopt rules and regulations relating to the exercise of free
expression by students upon the premises of each community college
maintained by the district, which shall include reasonable provisions
for the time, place, and manner of conducting such activities.
Such rules and regulations shall not prohibit the right of
students to exercise free expression including, but not limited to,
the use of bulletin boards, the distribution of printed materials or
petitions, and the wearing of buttons, badges, or other insignia,
except that expression which is obscene, libelous or slanderous
according to current legal standards, or which so incites students as
to create a clear and present danger of the commission of unlawful
acts on community college premises, or the violation of lawful
community college regulations, or the substantial disruption of the
orderly operation of the community college, shall be prohibited.


Of course, this doesn't really matter, because the students never would have approved this change in policy, had we been given a say. And guess what...the law states that we were supposed to be given a say. Here is the California Code of Regulations section on that:

(2) Except in unforeseeable, emergency situations, the governing board shall not take action on a matter having a significant effect on students until it has provided students with an opportunity to participate in the formulation of the policy or procedure or the joint development of recommendations regarding the action.

(b) For the purposes of this Section, district and college policies and procedures that have or will have a "significant effect on students" includes the following:


(2) codes of student conduct;

So yeah, it really isn't a question here of whether the school is violating the law, which is why it's exceedingly annoying that everyone is acting like that is the issue.

What I'd LIKE...is for someone to come in here with a great recommendation for my next step. Calling me "sonny" and telling me how old you are over and over again isn't really going to do much for either of us.

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That boy was anti-social

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. really? It surely seems like there have been a lot of "friends" interviewed since the slaughter. Heck, he even made an attempt to contact a guy he had not seen for several months just prior to the assault.

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He apparently had a fascination with firearms. I own none.

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was his known prior to the assault? How does anybody know you don't own any firearms?

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He was kicked out of his college. I am attending, with a 3.72 GPA.

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You need to read why he was kicked out of his college. It would seem you are in a similar crisis right now that predicated his weird actions which resulted in his dismissal from school

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His claims about violations of law were unfounded, and mainly seemed to be made up of incoherent generalities. I, however, am able to point out specific instances of law violation

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.ultimately you both are arguing the same argument. The school is acting illegally.

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What I'd LIKE...is for someone to come in here with a great recommendation for my next step.

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I guess this is your lucky day:

Hire an attorney

hire a psychotherapist.

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Quoting jk

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. really? It surely seems like there have been a lot of "friends" interviewed since the slaughter. Heck, he even made an attempt to contact a guy he had not seen for several months just prior to the assault.

was his known prior to the assault? How does anybody know you don't own any firearms?


You need to read why he was kicked out of his college. It would seem you are in a similar crisis right now that predicated his weird actions which resulted in his dismissal from school

.ultimately you both are arguing the same argument. The school is acting illegally.






I guess this is your lucky day:

Hire an attorney

hire a psychotherapist.

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Haha, guess I can school you real quick here (no pun intended)...

". really? It surely seems like there have been a lot of "friends" interviewed since the slaughter. Heck, he even made an attempt to contact a guy he had not seen for several months just prior to the assault."

Antisocial personality disorder: A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others and inability or unwillingness to conform to what are considered to be the norms of society.

The disorder involves a history of chronic antisocial behavior that begins before the age of 15 and continues into adulthood. The disorder is manifested by a pattern of irresponsible and antisocial behavior as indicated by academic failure, poor job performance, illegal activities, recklessness, and impulsive behavior.

Blah blah blah...look it up. It's not defined at all by how many friends a person has. You should go post in a medical forum...you seem to have the same knack for it that you have for legal aid.

"was [this] known prior to the assault? How does anybody know you don't own any firearms?"

I have no idea if anyone knew that beforehand. And I have no idea how you or anyone could know if I own firearms. Of course, there's really no point in continuing this debate if you're going to base your logic on an assumption that I'm a liar. That's your call, I guess.

"You need to read why he was kicked out of his college. It would seem you are in a similar crisis right now that predicated his weird actions which resulted in his dismissal from school"

You need to read my blog. I'm going through all the proper avenues, and my conviction in the matter should not lead you to any other conclusion than that I have strong conviction in the matter. I also have no history of violence. I've never even been in a fight in my life. No, it's not going to be a good point to ask me how anyone could know i've never been in a fight.

".ultimately you both are arguing the same argument. The school is acting illegally."

That's like saying you and I are both arguing the same argument -- that the other side of this debate is incorrect. Damn, guess I should report you.

"I guess this is your lucky day:

Hire an attorney

hire a psychotherapist."

Most of the legal citations that I've posted in this thread have come at the direction of an attorney, who began regularly guiding me through this process after I created this thread. I'm just continuing posting here because more heads are usually better, whether or not I have legal assistance already. Oh, and he's helping me for free.

The therapist comment was just dumb.

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=can i major in activism;485811]Haha, guess I can school you real quick here (no pun intended)...

". really? It surely seems like there have been a lot of "friends" interviewed since the slaughter. Heck, he even made an attempt to contact a guy he had not seen for several months just prior to the assault."

Antisocial personality disorder: A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others and inability or unwillingness to conform to what are considered to be the norms of society.

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You said:

He was anti-social. You did not state he had an anti-social disorder. There is a huge difference so why not say what you mean, or did you?

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"was [this] known prior to the assault? How does anybody know you don't own any firearms?"

I have no idea if anyone knew that beforehand. And I have no idea how you or anyone could know if I own firearms. Of course, there's really no point in continuing this debate if you're going to base your logic on an assumption that I'm a liar. That's your call, I guess.

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and of course a person that is whacko would never lie.

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"You need to read why he was kicked out of his college. It would seem you are in a similar crisis right now that predicated his weird actions which resulted in his dismissal from school"

You need to read my blog. I'm going through all the proper avenues, and my conviction in the matter should not lead you to any other conclusion than that I have strong conviction in the matter. I also have no history of violence. I've never even been in a fight in my life. No, it's not going to be a good point to ask me how anyone could know i've never been in a fight.

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Yes, a blog that has been commented on by a couple people, none of which seem to know you. You do know Loughner posted blogs and such before his rampage as well, right? He seemed to have strong convictions to his position as well. Where is Loughlins history of violence? I have read nothing suggesting there was one.

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".ultimately you both are arguing the same argument. The school is acting illegally."

That's like saying you and I are both arguing the same argument -- that the other side of this debate is incorrect. Damn, guess I should report you.

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No. You are both arguing the schools actions are illegal when in fact, neither of you have any support for that claim.

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Most of the legal citations that I've posted in this thread have come at the direction of an attorney, who began regularly guiding me through this process after I created this thread. I'm just continuing posting here because more heads are usually better, whether or not I have legal assistance already. Oh, and he's helping me for free.

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and yet you are getting nowhere with the direction of this anonymous lawyers free assistance.

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The therapist comment was just dumb.

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Ya, most whacko people think that when suggested to them.

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Quoting can i major in activism

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So yeah, it really isn't a question here of whether the school is violating the law, which is why it's exceedingly annoying that everyone is acting like that is the issue.
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So, if it isn't the issue, why are you posting so much about it being the issue?

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Quoting jk

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You said:

He was anti-social. You did not state he had an anti-social disorder. There is a huge difference so why not say what you mean, or did you?



and of course a person that is whacko would never lie.

Yes, a blog that has been commented on by a couple people, none of which seem to know you. You do know Loughner posted blogs and such before his rampage as well, right? He seemed to have strong convictions to his position as well. Where is Loughlins history of violence? I have read nothing suggesting there was one.

No. You are both arguing the schools actions are illegal when in fact, neither of you have any support for that claim.


and yet you are getting nowhere with the direction of this anonymous lawyers free assistance.

Ya, most whacko people think that when suggested to them.

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"He was anti-social. You did not state he had an anti-social disorder. There is a huge difference so why not say what you mean, or did you?"

No, there's not a huge difference...lol. You can refer to someone with anti-social disorder as simply being anti-social. I'll hit up WebMD and let them know you're coming.

"and of course a person that is whacko would never lie."

you seem angry

"Yes, a blog that has been commented on by a couple people, none of which seem to know you. You do know Loughner posted blogs and such before his rampage as well, right? He seemed to have strong convictions to his position as well. Where is Loughlins history of violence? I have read nothing suggesting there was one."

Those people and 7 of the 8 following my blog are friends of mine. sorry, buddy.

Loughlin was in trouble for assault. Pretty sure you mentioned that yourself a bit ago.

"No. You are both arguing the schools actions are illegal when in fact, neither of you have any support for that claim."

I just supported the claim a few posts ago with direct citations from the California Code of Regulations and the California Education Code. Feel free to disprove those specific arguments with more than 'you're wrong'.

"and yet you are getting nowhere with the direction of this anonymous lawyers free assistance."

Pretty sure that the recent addition of support from an attorney would be considered getting somewhere...

"Ya, most whacko people think that when suggested to them."

And no sane people would think the same thing, i'm sure

"So, if it isn't the issue, why are you posting so much about it being the issue?"

I'm not. I just...said it isn't the issue. You seem to be losing some mental faculties alongside your temper.

And you are losing both credibility and interest factor. In other words, your arguments, such as they are, are becoming boring.

Have a nice day.

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Quoting cbg

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And you are losing both credibility and interest factor. In other words, your arguments, such as they are, are becoming boring.

Have a nice day.

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take care.

I agree with you jk you are amazing. Your logic is fantastic.

No. You're an angry little troll. I'm sorry you're so angry that you have to resort to
saying "This is your lucky day hire an attorney, hire a psychotherapist" and calling activism a "whacko" hahahaha oh is that supposed to be funny? It's hilariously not. Actually, I think you need to hire yourself a psychotherapist to cure your attention whore disorder. Yeah, not attention whore behavior but disorder, it's really really different when you add disorder to the end of it. Stop posting nonsense.

You obviously don't want to help this guy out, which is fine and dandy. But you also don't know what the hell you're talking about. You're just spewing out nonsense and bringing this guy down because you feel like it. How old are you, 10?

You're seriously comparing him to a psychopath killer? You are really dumb. You're really an idiot. I don't usually call people idiots this easily but you really really are a huge idiot. I hope you feel better about yourself one day and stop taking out your anger at other people. If you can't though, at least try to have some logic in your arguments like this fellow and be smarter... eh probably won't happen either. OH WELL.

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No, there's not a huge difference...lol. You can refer to someone with anti-social disorder as simply being anti-social. I'll hit up WebMD and let them know you're coming.

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yes, there is a huge difference. Just as there is a difference between a person who is depressed and one that has clinical depression, one that has anxiety and one that has an anxiety disorder, there is a difference between a person who is anti-social and one that has an anti-social disorder. You are the one that apparently needs the education. Oh, that's right, your school doesn't want you anymore. In fact, even they suggested you consider counseling.

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"and of course a person that is whacko would never lie."

you seem angry

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angry? Not at all. I have nothing to be angry about. YOU are the one here expressing your anger, not me.

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"Yes, a blog that has been commented on by a couple people, none of which seem to know you. You do know Loughner posted blogs and such before his rampage as well, right? He seemed to have strong convictions to his position as well. Where is Loughlins history of violence? I have read nothing suggesting there was one."

Those people and 7 of the 8 following my blog are friends of mine. sorry, buddy.

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Oh, you got some new comments. When I read it, there were 3 comments. I believe 2 of them were some pretty generic comments from people that obviously had no real knowledge of you and the third was you paraphrasing another poster that had removed her post.

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Loughlin was in trouble for assault. Pretty sure you mentioned that yourself a bit ago.

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No, I didn't. I was speaking of the assault on the Congresswoman and the others in that situation. I mentioned nothing about historical actions.

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"No. You are both arguing the schools actions are illegal when in fact, neither of you have any support for that claim."

I just supported the claim a few posts ago with direct citations from the California Code of Regulations and the California Education Code. Feel free to disprove those specific arguments with more than 'you're wrong'.

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I like "you are wrong" just fine. You seem to cull whatever best suits your argument while ignoring the rest of the information which makes your claims wrong.

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"and yet you are getting nowhere with the direction of this anonymous lawyers free assistance."

Pretty sure that the recent addition of support from an attorney would be considered getting somewhere...

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so, where are you? Have you gained anything? If not, then no, speaking with an attorney is not progress.

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"Ya, most whacko people think that when suggested to them."

And no sane people would think the same thing, i'm sure

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Why would anybody tell a sane person they needed counseling?

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"So, if it isn't the issue, why are you posting so much about it being the issue?"

I'm not. I just...said it isn't the issue. You seem to be losing some mental faculties alongside your temper

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So why are you posting California code if it has nothing to do with the legal aspect? You have complained time and time again about the actions being illegal. That means it is about the legal aspect. The fact you are at a legal advice forum tends to show it is about the legal aspect.

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Quoting Nameuser

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I agree with you jk you are amazing. Your logic is fantastic.

No. You're an angry little troll. I'm sorry you're so angry that you have to resort to
saying "This is your lucky day hire an attorney, hire a psychotherapist" and calling activism a "whacko" hahahaha oh is that supposed to be funny? It's hilariously not. Actually, I think you need to hire yourself a psychotherapist to cure your attention whore disorder. Yeah, not attention whore behavior but disorder, it's really really different when you add disorder to the end of it. Stop posting nonsense.

You obviously don't want to help this guy out, which is fine and dandy. But you also don't know what the hell you're talking about. You're just spewing out nonsense and bringing this guy down because you feel like it. How old are you, 10?

You're seriously comparing him to a psychopath killer? You are really dumb. You're really an idiot. I don't usually call people idiots this easily but you really really are a huge idiot. I hope you feel better about yourself one day and stop taking out your anger at other people. If you can't though, at least try to have some logic in your arguments like this fellow and be smarter... eh probably won't happen either. OH WELL.

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so we have a troll that registered simply to defend the OP. Wow, I'm flattered.

or maybe we have the OP that signed up under a second user name trying to defend himself.

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You're seriously comparing him to a psychopath killer?

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yes, I am. His comments and expressed thoughts mirror Loughlin's a bit to closely to ignore.

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Quoting jk

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yes, there is a huge difference. Just as there is a difference between a person who is depressed and one that has clinical depression, one that has anxiety and one that has an anxiety disorder, there is a difference between a person who is anti-social and one that has an anti-social disorder. You are the one that apparently needs the education. Oh, that's right, your school doesn't want you anymore. In fact, even they suggested you consider counseling.

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Unless, of course, you call somebody depressed, MEANING the clinical definition, which is perfectly acceptable. You are wrong about this and should drop it, because this part of the argument IS actually getting pretty boring.

The counseling comment just proves you read the blog and were trolling when you suggested the same thing, which is exactly why I just called you dumb in response.

You're still dumb.

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angry? Not at all. I have nothing to be angry about. YOU are the one here expressing your anger, not me.

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You seem REALLY angry

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Oh, you got some new comments. When I read it, there were 3 comments. I believe 2 of them were some pretty generic comments from people that obviously had no real knowledge of you and the third was you paraphrasing another poster that had removed her post.

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OK, well that's not the case now...

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No, I didn't. I was speaking of the assault on the Congresswoman and the others in that situation. I mentioned nothing about historical actions.

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OK, well he was previously in trouble for assault. That's my understanding anyway.

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I like "you are wrong" just fine. You seem to cull whatever best suits your argument while ignoring the rest of the information which makes your claims wrong.

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What information. I keep asking you for it, and you just keep saying stuff like this.

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so, where are you? Have you gained anything? If not, then no, speaking with an attorney is not progress.

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I guess I was supposed to file in court without an attorney.

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Why would anybody tell a sane person they needed counseling?

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Why ARE you a troll?

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So why are you posting California code if it has nothing to do with the legal aspect? You have complained time and time again about the actions being illegal. That means it is about the legal aspect. The fact you are at a legal advice forum tends to show it is about the legal aspect.

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I posted it because you said my claims were not valid. Wanted to give proof that they are. I didn't ask you to double check my conclusion for me.

so we have a troll that registered simply to defend the OP. Wow, I'm flattered.

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or maybe we have the OP that signed up under a second user name trying to defend himself.

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admin is welcome to check IP addresses and verify we're not the same people.

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yes, I am. His comments and expressed thoughts mirror Loughlin's a bit to closely to ignore.

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you seem REALLY really angry

I just perused your blog David. Can't say it's looking like much of any support from your 8 registered followers. A little, but very little. I see you got shot down again. What can't you understand "we are done with the grade situation David".

If you have a legal claim, I suggest you make an effort to enforce it. It sounds like your welcome is about worn out and you will likely be faced with a notice of trespass.

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Quoting jk

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I just perused your blog David. Can't say it's looking like much of any support from your 8 registered followers. A little, but very little. I see you got shot down again. What can't you understand "we are done with the grade situation David".

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I understand the e-mail that was sent after I left the office, saying "Dr. Pat has reconsidered. We will be mailing you a copy of the CD". I understand that I now have the CD. Which part of that means that I was shot down?

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If you have a legal claim, I suggest you make an effort to enforce it. It sounds like your welcome is about worn out and you will likely be faced with a notice of trespass.

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You're right, I should try to enforce it instead of wasting my time, sending the evidence to an attorney.

wait...

Oh what witty retort from a person claiming to be worthy of a better grade than a B. Your responses are childish.

Let me quote a few:

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You're still dumb.

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That is just so mature and witty. (you do understand sarcasm don't you?)

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You seem REALLY angry

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Even if I was, what difference would it make? You sound like a little kid with your continued need to repeat the same thing over and over somehow believing it will me seen as more important or correct.

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Unless, of course, you call somebody depressed, MEANING the clinical definition, which is perfectly acceptable. You are wrong about this and should drop it, because this part of the argument IS actually getting pretty boring.

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Someday you will grow up and understand why your statement is incorrect, maybe.

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OK, well he was previously in trouble for assault. That's my understanding anyway.

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Oh, so what you claimed I said was actually something you manufactured and wanted to blame me for. How about proving this claim of trouble for assault, especially since you admit it is your belief.

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I guess I was supposed to file in court without an attorney.

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It happens thousands of time every day but regardless, what is this lawyer claiming in the filing he is working on for you? What redress does your action seek?

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I posted it because you said my claims were not valid. Wanted to give proof that they are. I didn't ask you to double check my conclusion for me.

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If you ignore about half of what you posted, you can make it appear your claims are valid. If you read the entire law you will see you are wrong.

and no, I'm not angry. I am concerned that there are people such as yourself walking the streets without a handler close by.

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Quoting jk

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Oh what witty retort from a person claiming to be worthy of a better grade than a B. Your responses are childish.

Let me quote a few:

That is just so mature and witty. (you do understand sarcasm don't you?)

Even if I was, what difference would it make? You sound like a little kid with your continued need to repeat the same thing over and over somehow believing it will me seen as more important or correct.

Someday you will grow up and understand why your statement is incorrect, maybe.

Oh, so what you claimed I said was actually something you manufactured and wanted to blame me for. How about proving this claim of trouble for assault, especially since you admit it is your belief.

It happens thousands of time every day but regardless, what is this lawyer claiming in the filing he is working on for you? What redress does your action seek?

If you ignore about half of what you posted, you can make it appear your claims are valid. If you read the entire law you will see you are wrong.

and no, I'm not angry. I am concerned that there are people such as yourself walking the streets without a handler close by.

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You seem pretty angry.

Well as much as I do enjoy a good debate, I know when to call it quits with an angry troll. Do take care. Hope you find what you're lookin for on this site.

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=can i major in activism;485839]I understand the e-mail that was sent after I left the office, saying "Dr. Pat has reconsidered. We will be mailing you a copy of the CD". I understand that I now have the CD. Which part of that means that I was shot down?

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so post it.

and to being shot down? Your grievance concerning your grade. It's over David.

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You're right, I should try to enforce it instead of wasting my time, sending the evidence to an attorney.

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So, now it's AN attorney and I am glad you finally recognize and admit you are wasting your time. I suspect every instructor you have had, at least at college, has felt the same way.

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Quoting can i major in activism

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You seem pretty angry.

Well as much as I do enjoy a good debate, I know when to call it quits with an angry troll. Do take care. Hope you find what you're lookin for on this site.

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this was not a debate. You were simply here whining about not getting what you think you deserved when everybody else disagrees with you. I simply tossed logs on the fire.

I'm not a troll but I can troll your ass across the sky. I can troll you like you troll him and pick out every little sentence and say "ohoho that is witty, NAUGHT!" but I have better things to do with my life.

Your idiotic paranoia of thinking he is "mirroring" Loughlin is sad. Also you forgot an "o" for the word too, that is also sad. Yes his thoughts and comments are similar to Loughlin's... like saying "This is genocide in America" and rambling nonsense while wearing thongs and holding guns. So similar.

You are one sad troll and you fail at it.

Bye have a nice life!

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Quoting Nameuser

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I'm not a troll but I can troll your ass across the sky. I can troll you like you troll him and pick out every little sentence and say "ohoho that is witty, NAUGHT!" but I have better things to do with my life.

Your idiotic paranoia of thinking he is "mirroring" Loughlin is sad. Also you forgot an "o" for the word too, that is also sad. Yes his thoughts and comments are similar to Loughlin's... like saying "This is genocide in America" and rambling nonsense while wearing thongs and holding guns. So similar.

You are one sad troll and you fail at it.

Bye have a nice life!

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wow, I'm so hurt.


You do know what sarcasm is, right?

seems kind of strange the you and the OP are both on and off the forum at the same time.