VC 22350 and Senior Center

Will do. I've also requested the speed survey on the off chance that it's out of date, just in case. I'll post it when I receive it. Lots of great info here, very appreciated!

Hi again,

The speed survey is not out of date, but the 85th percentile speed is 42 and there is NO MENTION of a senior center whatsoever. Is this a plausible defense?

If someone wouldn't mind taking a look it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Speed Survey

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Quoting tehericka

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The speed survey is not out of date, but the 85th percentile speed is 42 and there is NO MENTION of a senior center whatsoever. Is this a plausible defense?

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It certainly is... Unless this is NOT the most recent survey (as in: the senior center was built/added AFTER that survey was conducted, and a new survey was done), the posted limit SHOULD be 35mph -NOT 25mph-. As such, and pursuant to VC 40802(a)(2), this is a "speed trap", and as a result, the court "shall be without jurisdiction to render a judgment of conviction" (See VC 40805).

Edited To Add: After checking College Ave -between EL Cajon Blvd and Lindo Paseo- on Google Maps, I can see a Senior Center at "4855 College Avenue, San Diego, CA"... So again, there may exist a more recent survey that justifies the 25pmh posted limit... You can either contact the city engineering and ask them for confirmation that what you have is indeed the most recent survey, or you can wait until your court appearance and check the survey that the officer will present... If it is in fact the same as the one you posted, then you've got an easy case to beat the citation. If he does somehow manage to come up with a new one (and one that refers to the Senior Center as justification to reduce the limit to 25mph) then then speed trap argument will not likely work.

I double checked with the engineer-- got written confirmation that this is the most recent survey done for this section of road. My arraignment is on Jan 5th so I'll plead not guilty and schedule a court date. Do I use VC40802 or VC 40805? (or both?) Many thanks for your continued help.

Side note- I was told by a legal-minded friend that if I win my case I should raise a class-action lawsuit for those who paid these tickets (the cop was on this corner for at least 2 weeks pulling people over) Thoughts?

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Quoting tehericka

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I double checked with the engineer-- got written confirmation that this is the most recent survey done for this section of road.

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Good... Sort of leaves me wondering as to who installed that 25mph speed limit sign :confused:

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Quoting tehericka

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Do I use VC40802 or VC 40805? (or both?) Many thanks for your continued help.

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There are a number of ways you can approach it.... Here's how I would do it... You can wait until the officer finishes testifying (after he introduces the survey into evidence), then you would make a motion for a dismissal by citing and and all of the pertinent code sections: 40801, 40803(a) & (b), 40804(a) AND 40805...
Cite them all for good measure...

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Quoting tehericka

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Side note- I was told by a legal-minded friend that if I win my case I should raise a class-action lawsuit for those who paid these tickets (the cop was on this corner for at least 2 weeks pulling people over) Thoughts?

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Who are you going to sue? The city for posting the wrong speed limit, the police department for maintaining a speed trap, the District attorney's office for prosecuting cases (even though they don't really prosecute), or the court for judicial misconduct?

Most of those entities enjoy what is called "qualified immunity"... But even if they didn't, the legislature limited the penalty for maintaining speed traps to "exclusion of the evidence" and a subsequent dismissal... From People V. Sullivan:

While section 40801, setting forth the general prohibition against speed traps, may be viewed as a substantive rule of law, section 40803, subdivision (a), can only be characterized as a rule of evidence. The Legislature could have selected other remedies or penalties for violation of section 40801, but it clearly opted for the exclusion of evidence.

As far as you personally, and assuming you are successful in getting your citation dismissed, you would have very little basis to sue anyone in that you have no actual damages to sue for! As for the people who may have either been convicted and or simply plead guilty and paid a fine as a result of this particular speed trap, it is on them to seek proper remedy from the court.

If for some reason the court does not dismiss your case based on the arguments we discussed here, your recourse at that point would be to file an appeal. You can raise your hope that you are due some sort of compensation for the hassle, but at the end of the day, a dismissal is about as much as you'll get.

If you plan on doing this as part of your "civic duty", then you'd be better off contacting the citing agency and letting them know that the speed limit on that portion of that roadway is not justified and they should cease speed enforcement until they can either get the 25mph limit changes to 35 (to conform to the most recent survey) or until they can have the city issue an E&T survey that justifies the 25mph limit. Or you can contact city engineering and have them look into why their survey states the limit should be at 35 when in fact they posted it at 25...

Excellent information, thank you! The class-action thing is definitely not something I'm interested in pursuing-- merely a curiosity after it was brought up-- I hadn't even thought about that. Anything beyond my specific case would be purely for interest's sake.

As for the case at hand, I'm hoping for a speedy dismissal. Thanks again!

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Quoting tehericka

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Excellent information, thank you!

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You're welcome! Let us know how things turn out.

This thread was exactly what I was looking for. I just received a citation in the exact same spot. I got clocked at 45 in the same 25 zone. I was driving in the blind spot of a bus and sped up to pass it so the bus would see me. When I emerged from the sight of the bus, I got pulled over. Anyway, in addition to the great information here (thanks very much for posting the survey) I also found People v. Goulet, 13 Cal. App. 4th Supp. 1 which I believe sets precedent for cases such as this. I have yet to receive the courtesy notice and have no idea how much the fine will be. I will be very interested to hear how Tehericka's case turns out. As I will probably get the same result since our defense is the same.

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Quoting Guvnor007

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This thread was exactly what I was looking for. I just received a citation in the exact same spot. I got clocked at 45 in the same 25 zone. I was driving in the blind spot of a bus and sped up to pass it so the bus would see me. When I emerged from the sight of the bus, I got pulled over. Anyway, in addition to the great information here (thanks very much for posting the survey) I also found People v. Goulet, 13 Cal. App. 4th Supp. 1 which I believe sets precedent for cases such as this. I have yet to receive the courtesy notice and have no idea how much the fine will be. I will be very interested to hear how Tehericka's case turns out. As I will probably get the same result since our defense is the same.

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That corner was swarming with cops for a few weeks, I'm not surprised there are others! I opted to get an extension on my arraignment since full bail is required when entering a "not guilty" plea-- had to save up a bit. I'll be going into court tomorrow. Have you made any headway on your case? I assume you've received your courtesy notice by now?

Thanks for posting that case-- definitely makes a few interesting points. Since this is my first speeding ticket (and will be my first trial) I think I'm mostly confused as to how to present my argument in the best way possible. Any idea how you'll be approaching it?

We should keep each other updated-- best of luck!

So how'd it turn out? I also have to fight this Speed Trap and am using the strategies posted here. Any tips?