Required to Register as a Sex Offender Due to Criminal Confinement Conviction
My question involves criminal law for the state of: INDIANA
If this is too long just read the first 4 paragraphs:D
My counselor in prison who was attending law school told me to get out and fight this because I fall into a "gray area" because I don't meet none of the check marks required (some kind of screening) to be labeled as a sex offender but the law says so for criminal confinement when minors are present. She said I am not supposed to be on there.
But anyways, on April 27, 2007, me and four others invaded the home of a 35 year old (with firearms) because he stole drugs from us. I had 2 charges, criminal confinement (b) and attempted burglary (b). The prosecutor wanted me to plea to burglary a class b, but I thought that pleaing out to confinement might be better so she said have it your way.
I got convicted March 11, 2008, by signing a plea agreement. I found out I was a registered sex offender (to my surprise) right before I got out of prison several months ago.
The requirement to register for this crime was not law on April 27, and I believe it became effective on July 21, 2007. The law says specifically "charged and convicted" after the certain date. It doesn't say "charged or convicted" which would require me to register. But it says I must be charged AND convicted (both) after the certain date that requires me to register. I caught the case BEFORE the date and sentenced AFTER.... So isn't this a good argument for ex post facto? This is my main question.
This registration requirement is ruining my life. People see me on there and think I'm a child molester because they don't ever read the fine print which I believe is purposely misleading and defaming I feel like suing somebody for calling me something I am not by labeling me a "sex" offender even though there was no type of sexual anything that had any kind of sex.
Please, I don't want to hear that I should of thought about that before I did, it or that I shouldn't have did it and I know its very bad but I take responsibility for my actions and I'll do my time for something I commit. I was even dumber back then I was only 18 and I shouldn't get a life sentence for this, and it wasn't a exactly a crime against a saint. I'm really not that bad of a guy and am actually not violent as one might profile me based on my past.
I am also broke and can't get a job or an apartment because of this so can you please tell me what things I need to pick and choose to read and learn to prepare myself to fight this on my own? The UCLA didn't write back. Any advice other than suicide? No, all joking aside any thoughts on this? Should I try ex post facto? Reopen the case and try and plead to burglary by saying it was a burglary and face additional time for lying? Ask the courts to allow me to prove that there was no sexual intentions? Or ask THEM to prove the sexual nature of the non-sexual offense? Unconstitutional? Supreme Court? Isn't that insanely expensive?
There should be more accurate guidelines in labeling someone a sex offender because it's there, they say, to protect the children. Labeling someone a "sexually violent predator" is basically saying they are preying on children, when in fact we were preying on the adult. There is nothing in the case indicating we were preying on the children, but actually quite the opposite. It is established that we were preying on the adult thief.
In the law, in regards to criminal confinement and children present, it says that it may be hard to determine the offenders true motivations. However not in my case. IDK this is just craziness to me.
Re: Required to Register as a Sex Offender Due to Criminal Confinement Conviction
Let's not start out by sugar coating this, okay. You broke into someone's home at gunpoint because he stole drugs from you. That is almost the definition of a "bad guy" and "violent". Believe it or not, most people would not point a gun at another human being for any reason. You don't get to judge your victim.
Were there children ANYWHERE in the home at the time of the invasion?
Okay... as to the charge. You may have a shot, but will need to contact the ACLU (UCLA is a university in California and they don't care about your case) if you cannot afford your own attorney.
You won't be able to plead the case again... that ship has sailed. You would need to file as the sentence was not appropriate to the crime committed... and that requires a pretty good amount of legal research (to make sure that this sentence was, indeed, cruel and unusual).
Re: Required to Register as a Sex Offender Due to Criminal Confinement Conviction
Thanks. What I meant is that I HAVE morals (albeit slightly different than yours) and that in general I am not a violent person or bad guy, but I can get violent when I have to, and even so I have a level of self control
(of anger/violence) that you have rarely seen in a person. And when I get violent I always make sure I am right. The mathematical model of "right" if you may, might be applied differently between me and you.
As far as what makes me a bad guy that is purely opinion and perception. That is a whole 'nother philosophical discussion. Plus I said "that bad" because there's no denying that I'm a bad guy. Like I said what seems like antisocial behavior in one culture, may not be, and may even be pro-social in another culture.
Just curious, why don't I get to judge my victim? Is it because I know him? I can't judge someone based on their morals either? Why? Because I preyed on a predator?
Because the prey refused to be a prey? I didn't understand that part.
What sounded like justification (and can be seen as that) was actually a defensive shield in order to subtly hint readers to spare me their moral opinions or quetching (which I don't care about) resulting from feeling morally superior, which usually happens with judgmental persons. I should of just said that from the go, because I obviously failed at that and probably even provoked that.
Yes there were children in the top bedroom which we didn't see until they came out with grandma. No one was harmed, except maybe psychologically.
When you opined that I might have a chance you mean if I was to ask the Supreme Court to take me off the registry? I really appreciate your feedback cyjeff, I was surprised to get a reply so expeditiously.
Re: Required to Register as a Sex Offender Due to Criminal Confinement Conviction
You don't get to judge anybody. Once criminal charges result, it's not you versus him anymore, it is the State of Indiana versus you. There may also be an action from the State of Indiana versus the other guy.
At the national level, the retrograde registration requirements have not been found unconstitutional. There has been some state action (and I have no idea if Indiana is one of them and I'm not inclined to look it up for you). However you do have a point on the wording of the statute. However, I suspect you will need the assistance of a lawyer for the exact way to ask for relief from registration.
Re: Required to Register as a Sex Offender Due to Criminal Confinement Conviction
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Quoting
StupidCriminal
Thanks. What I meant is that I HAVE morals (albeit slightly different than yours) and that in general I am not a violent person or bad guy, but I can get violent when I have to, and even so I have a level of self control
(of anger/violence) that you have rarely seen in a person. And when I get violent I always make sure I am right. The mathematical model of "right" if you may, might be applied differently between me and you.
Actually, no. We all operate under the same law. Just because you only occasionally commit illegal acts doesn't make you a good person.
Have you considered that the removal of the sex offender label may not help you in your apartment or job search even a little bit? While sex offences are heinous, people aren't lining up to have violent felons on the payroll either.
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As far as what makes me a bad guy that is purely opinion and perception. That is a whole 'nother philosophical discussion. Plus I said "that bad" because there's no denying that I'm a bad guy. Like I said what seems like antisocial behavior in one culture, may not be, and may even be pro-social in another culture.
Another culture?
Are you saying you aren't in the US? If you are, acts of violence are not covered under the "melting pot" formula. In other words, we all live under the same laws. Even you.
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Just curious, why don't I get to judge my victim? Is it because I know him? I can't judge someone based on their morals either? Why? Because I preyed on a predator?
Because the prey refused to be a prey? I didn't understand that part.
You don't get to be judge and jury and decide who is worthy of punishment and/or death. If you wish that authority, go to law school and become a judge.
That's a joke, of course. Felons aren't allowed to take the bar.
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What sounded like justification (and can be seen as that) was actually a defensive shield in order to subtly hint readers to spare me their moral opinions or quetching (which I don't care about) resulting from feeling morally superior, which usually happens with judgmental persons. I should of just said that from the go, because I obviously failed at that and probably even provoked that.
I have not given you a moral answer.
You seem to think that you have your own subset of law under which your actions were not only excusable but honorable. This is incorrect. It is not a moral statement to say that this behavior is illegal.
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Yes there were children in the top bedroom which we didn't see until they came out with grandma. No one was harmed, except maybe psychologically.
And there you go. That explains the sexual offender status. You illegally confined those children.
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When you opined that I might have a chance you mean if I was to ask the Supreme Court to take me off the registry? I really appreciate your feedback cyjeff, I was surprised to get a reply so expeditiously.
The chance of this case going to the US Supreme Court is small. However, an attorney may be able to negotiate this singular point in your favor.
Re: Required to Register as a Sex Offender Due to Criminal Confinement Conviction
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Actually, no. We all operate under the same law. Just because you only occasionally commit illegal acts doesn't make you a good person.
I never said I was a good person jackass. I said I am not that bad. And if you think committing illegal acts is what ultimately determines a person's goodness or badness your not only a jackass but a dumb jackass.
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Have you considered that the removal of the sex offender label may not help you in your apartment or job search even a little bit? While sex offences are heinous, people aren't lining up to have violent felons on the payroll either.
Have you considered that maybe I just don't want to be labeled as something I am not? Since your such a smart ass learn how to spell offenses.
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Another culture?
Are you saying you aren't in the US? If you are, acts of violence are not covered under the "melting pot" formula. In other words, we all live under the same laws. Even you.
I said different cultures not different countries what are you like 12 yrs old? In this case different cultures as in the criminal underworld since you didn't catch on and obviously you slept through psychology class if you even had it. I did not and do not think that I should be exempt from the same laws everyone else is subject to.
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You don't get to be judge and jury and decide who is worthy of punishment and/or death. If you wish that authority, go to law school and become a judge.
When the hell did I say he needed any kind of punishment or death? Especially legal punishment? You have a brain malfunction or something lol? I just wanted my hard earned money.
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That's a joke, of course. Felons aren't allowed to take the bar.
No that wasn't a joke what was a joke was,"Felons aren't allowed to take the bar."
There is nothing preventing you for taking the bar, however whether you get admitted into the bar or not is the real question. Even so there are numerous examples when felons have been admitted into the bar. Try again smarty pants.
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I have not given you a moral answer.
You seem to think that you have your own subset of law under which your actions were not only excusable but honorable. This is incorrect. It is not a moral statement to say that this behavior is illegal.
You said,"That is almost the definition of a "bad guy" and "violent"." This is an opinion not a fact. This is a statement of how you feel about this. Giving your opinions about moral things is what makes the conversation about morality. I don't care about jackass opinions such as this. I care about feedback and opinions about factual and intellectual things. I don't care how you feel about a what a bad guy or good guy is.
When you say I think my actions were not only excusable but honorable and this is not correct, be specific about who these actions are not honorable to. Because they were highly honorable, respected and do not need an excuse, to people who live this certain lifestyle. So you are incorrect.
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And there you go. That explains the sexual offender status. You illegally confined those children.
No shit Sherlock.
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The chance of this case going to the US Supreme Court is small. However, an attorney may be able to negotiate this singular point in your favor.
I am glad to see that something that makes sense to me also makes sense to another person. Other than that have fun trolling.
Re: Required to Register as a Sex Offender Due to Criminal Confinement Conviction
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Quoting
StupidCriminal
I never said I was a good person jackass. I said I am not that bad. And if you think committing illegal acts is what ultimately determines a person's goodness or badness your not only a jackass but a dumb jackass.
From a legal standpoint (the purpose of this site), committing illegal acts is the litmus test used.
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Have you considered that maybe I just don't want to be labeled as something I am not? Since your such a smart ass learn how to spell offenses.
Under the law, you DID unlawfully restrain children when you broke into a home under gunpoint. That means the label is accurate.
Sorry for my spelling. It is always nice to know there are felons with quality educations.
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I said different cultures not different countries what are you like 12 yrs old? In this case different cultures as in the criminal underworld since you didn't catch on and obviously you slept through psychology class if you even had it. I did not and do not think that I should be exempt from the same laws everyone else is subject to.
Typically, the word "culture" refers to a specific group of people usually defined by geographic area. We have to be sensitive to that geographic area as laws are very specific to the municipality in which the crime occurs.
"Criminal underworld" is not a legally recognized class. You say you don't want to be held to different laws, yet you say that in your culture you are not that bad a person and that should have some weight on a court.
In other words, you are less bad than others you know. That won't help you.
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When the hell did I say he needed any kind of punishment or death? Especially legal punishment? You have a brain malfunction or something lol? I just wanted my hard earned money.
I am sorry. If he had not complied, what would have happened next? The guns are a give away to the threat.
I also think you will have a hard time convincing a judge that running a drug operation qualifies as "hard earned".
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No that wasn't a joke what was a joke was,"Felons aren't allowed to take the bar."
There is nothing preventing you for taking the bar, however whether you get admitted into the bar or not is the real question. Even so there are numerous examples when felons have been admitted into the bar. Try again smarty pants.
Actually, no. Felons will not be allowed to sit for the bar. I don't, personally, know of a single law school that will even admit a violent felon because the entire exercise is a complete waste of everyone's time.
Felons admitted to the bar? Theoretically possible, of course. I don't know of a single violent felon admitted to the bar in 30 years. I am truly interested in the examples you have.
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You said,"That is almost the definition of a "bad guy" and "violent"." This is an opinion not a fact. This is a statement of how you feel about this. Giving your opinions about moral things is what makes the conversation about morality.
Again, this is a legal website. "Bad guy" is a person that commits an illegal act. "Violent" describes bringing a weapon and kicking in the door to a private residence in commission of that illegal act.
Not opinion... legal definition.
I have not provided you with any moral judgment. It is telling, however, that you see a moral judgment in every legal argument.
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I don't care about jackass opinions such as this. I care about feedback and opinions about factual and intellectual things. I don't care how you feel about a what a bad guy or good guy is.
I did not start the discussion about that definition. You did by saying you really aren't a bad person. To the legal system, you are.
Except you left that out of the initial post. It took you several posts to finally admit to the terrified children hiding upstairs which made the charge appropriate.
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I am glad to see that something that makes sense to me also makes sense to another person. Other than that have fun trolling.
I have done nothing but explain the legal realities to you. The fact that it isn't what you wanted to hear does not make me a troll.
Re: Required to Register as a Sex Offender Due to Criminal Confinement Conviction
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Quoting
StupidCriminal
I never said I was a good person jackass. I said I am not that bad. And if you think committing illegal acts is what ultimately determines a person's goodness or badness your not only a jackass but a dumb jackass.
Have you considered that maybe I just don't want to be labeled as something I am not? Since your such a smart ass learn how to spell offenses.
I said different cultures not different countries what are you like 12 yrs old? In this case different cultures as in the criminal underworld since you didn't catch on and obviously you slept through psychology class if you even had it. I did not and do not think that I should be exempt from the same laws everyone else is subject to.
When the hell did I say he needed any kind of punishment or death? Especially legal punishment? You have a brain malfunction or something lol? I just wanted my hard earned money.
No that wasn't a joke what was a joke was,"Felons aren't allowed to take the bar."
There is nothing preventing you for taking the bar, however whether you get admitted into the bar or not is the real question. Even so there are numerous examples when felons have been admitted into the bar. Try again smarty pants.
You said,"That is almost the definition of a "bad guy" and "violent"." This is an opinion not a fact. This is a statement of how you feel about this. Giving your opinions about moral things is what makes the conversation about morality. I don't care about jackass opinions such as this. I care about feedback and opinions about factual and intellectual things. I don't care how you feel about a what a bad guy or good guy is.
When you say I think my actions were not only excusable but honorable and this is not correct, be specific about who these actions are not honorable to. Because they were highly honorable, respected and do not need an excuse, to people who live this certain lifestyle. So you are incorrect.
No shit Sherlock.
I am glad to see that something that makes sense to me also makes sense to another person. Other than that have fun trolling.
And yet, everything that cyjeff said was correct.
By all means, go and pay an attorney.
Drop the attitude here, though. It is not welcome.
Re: Required to Register as a Sex Offender Due to Criminal Confinement Conviction
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flyingron
You don't get to judge anybody. Once criminal charges result, it's not you versus him anymore, it is the State of Indiana versus you. There may also be an action from the State of Indiana versus the other guy.
At the national level, the retrograde registration requirements have not been found unconstitutional. There has been some state action (and I have no idea if Indiana is one of them and I'm not inclined to look it up for you). However you do have a point on the wording of the statute. However, I suspect you will need the assistance of a lawyer for the exact way to ask for relief from registration.
Thanks flyingron I knew I wasn't crazy about the wording of the statute. I did however download the copy of the law on this subject from the government website and saw that the only part italicized was
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"and the person who confined or removed the victim is not the victim’s parent or guardian."
So that won't work I'll just try to change it from lifetime registration because for that actual sexual conduct is required not just violent as in my case.
Since the change on July 21st (and the person who confined or removed the victim is not the victim’s parent or guardian) telling your son or daughter,"go to your room before I whoop your ass is actually considered criminal. Don't believe me? Look at the law.
IC 35-42-3-3
Criminal confinement
Sec. 3. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally:
(1) confines another person without the other person's consent; or
(2) removes another person, by fraud, enticement, force, or threat of force, from one (1) place to another;
commits criminal confinement. Except as provided in subsection (b), the offense of criminal confinement is a Class D felony.
(b) The offense of criminal confinement defined in subsection (a) is:
(1) a Class C felony if:
(A) the person confined or removed is less than fourteen (14) years of age and is not the confining or removing person's child;
(B) it is committed by using a vehicle; or
(C) it results in bodily injury to a person other than the confining or removing person; and
Say you spank your kid and he doesn't want to get up, and you drag his ass from the living room to his bedroom (I have seen this from alot of parents). This is criminal. I have actually seen a dad who was on the sex offenders list for grabbing his daughter and putting her in the car when she didn't want to leave her boyfriends house or something like that. I forgot the exact circumstances but it was obsurd. They had to take him off the list later.
Re: Required to Register as a Sex Offender Due to Criminal Confinement Conviction
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From a legal standpoint (the purpose of this site), committing illegal acts is the litmus test used.
Under the law, you DID unlawfully restrain children when you broke into a home under gunpoint. That means the label is accurate.
The label "sex" is not accurate. There was no sex involved. Not even close, the label is not accurate. Legally at the current moment in time sure you can call someone who committed a non-sexual violent offense a sex offender, but its not accurate. Legally it is correct only because it is law but that doesn't make it right unless of course the government is your god and you bow down like blind sheep. It is stupid and completely lacking logic. Call me a violent offender not a sexual one. Especially a "sexually violent predator". If it is so correct there wouldn't be a gray area for me which I may be able to use against life time registration, and hopefully turn it into 10 year registration. Law should be precise.
Is it precise when I am called a sex offender and on the website it says what type of sex offense and it says "other" as in not a sex offense? No. Not very accurate at all.
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Sorry for my spelling. It is always nice to know there are felons with quality educations.
LOL my spell checker picked that up.
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Typically, the word "culture" refers to a specific group of people usually defined by geographic area. We have to be sensitive to that geographic area as laws are very specific to the municipality in which the crime occurs.
"the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture." Dictionary.com
"The set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution, organization or group" Wikipedia.com
"b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life} shared by people in a place or time <popular culture> <southern culture> c : the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization <a corporate culture focused on the bottom line> d : the set of values, conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity, or societal characteristic <studying the effect of computers on print culture> <changing the culture of materialism will take time — Peggy O'Mara>"
-Merriam Webster
I can't find anywhere saying that "culture" refers to a specific group of people usually defined by geographic area. What is your source of this knowledge? If there is a legal definition for culture saying this please show me because I cannot find it.
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"Criminal underworld" is not a legally recognized class. You say you don't want to be held to different laws, yet you say that in your culture you are not that bad a person and that should have some weight on a court.
Again you are putting words in my mouth. If you want to be all technical and legal then be sure to state facts not delusions. I wasn't saying this should hold weight in court I know how the law works.
I said the "not that bad of a guy" part in my first post so people aren't quick to judge me and we can talk about law, and draw attention away being judged because I was assuming people who would read this are intellectual types who are probably very proper and square, and tend to look down on people who aren't perfect legally, and probably think I'm some kind of monster. "not that bad of a guy" is not a legal term I don't know why you are trying to turn it into a legal term.
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In other words, you are less bad than others you know. That won't help you.
Wasn't meant to be a legal defense. I was talking person to person.
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I am sorry. If he had not complied, what would have happened next? The guns are a give away to the threat.
OO sorry I thought you meant legal punishment and death penalty. Well obviously I do get to be the judge and punisher of someone if I carry something out (not legally of course)... not to say there aren't legal consequences if I was to get caught. You can see it as that. I judged him and I attempted to punish him. Although I don't really look at him as a person needing punishment, I look at him as an object that I will be holding on to for collateral. It's just business.
Not that I need to prove to you, I'm just saying, since you asked, no one's life was under any danger because him dead is worth zero dollars and a big mess. He had no gun nor did anyone in the house (other than us), and him complying or not would of not been a strong determining factor in the variability of the future. We had enough man power to tie him up and carry him out without too much of an incident.
You are right that the court would see it as these person's lives in danger and nothing is wrong with that. I see the point you are making with this and I understand what you mean here.
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I also think you will have a hard time convincing a judge that running a drug operation qualifies as "hard earned".
I never suggested this would be a legal argument I would want to use or that I would try to convince the judge that. This is not something I would want to reveal to the judge. I was just saying.
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Actually, no. Felons will not be allowed to sit for the bar. I don't, personally, know of a single law school that will even admit a violent felon because the entire exercise is a complete waste of everyone's time.
Felons admitted to the bar? Theoretically possible, of course. I don't know of a single violent felon admitted to the bar in 30 years. I am truly interested in the examples you have.
There is one in South Bend, IN who still has his license he did two years I will get back to you with his name later and I will verify that he has this conviction before I tell you his name. I don't feel like researching for this right now but I'm sure I'll find a lawyer somewhere in history with a felony.
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Again, this is a legal website. "Bad guy" is a person that commits an illegal act. "Violent" describes bringing a weapon and kicking in the door to a private residence in commission of that illegal act.
Not opinion... legal definition.
I have not provided you with any moral judgment. It is telling, however, that you see a moral judgment in every legal argument.
Good point. I only saw the moral judgment in the "bad guy" part and nothing else. I am interested if you can tell me where I can find a legal definition for "bad guy" out of curiosity.
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I did not start the discussion about that definition. You did by saying you really aren't a bad person. To the legal system, you are.
Yes to the legal system I am, obviously. You should of said this from the start. Why would I think I am not? No one would think they are not after a class B felony. You knew what I meant. I did not say "I'm not that bad of a guy to the legal system". I was stating how I am as a person not as a legal entity. This leads me to think that you are part of the legal system and not just a lawyer because you speak your opinion, or you can say facts that sound like opinions as if you are representing the legal system however you are not declaring that you are part of the legal system leading to confusion.
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Except you left that out of the initial post. It took you several posts to finally admit to the terrified children hiding upstairs which made the charge appropriate.
LOL several posts? Several is three or more. I said that in the second post. You are stretching the facts out.
I have done nothing but explain the legal realities to you. The fact that it isn't what you wanted to hear does not make me a troll.[/QUOTE]
What makes you a troll is the delusional (I don't mean this in an offensive way most people have delusions of one kind or another {some bigger some smaller} in order to protect your brain from pain) misinterpretations of a lot of my comments. Such as you saying that I said that I'm not that bad of a guy and that should hold some weight in court. I was telling that to people reading this I wasn't in court when I said this. I was writing as I talk. You are forgetting your not in the court room anymore your at home on your computer writing. There are other examples as well but I will spare you that unless of course you need more examples to see your word-putting-in-mouth behavior.
Sorry for the attitude in my previous post I'm just frank when trying to figure people out and gain an understanding of where your coming from. Your pretty much right except for the misinterpretations and delusions.
I am also not looking for someone to just agree with me whether it is wrong or right I just didn't like the judging part. I don't like to lie to myself.