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Going to Trial for a Speeding Ticket

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  • 11-20-2010, 03:24 PM
    fmicle
    Going to Trial for a Speeding Ticket
    My question involves traffic court in the State of: California

    So I got a speeding ticket a few months back. Allegedly I was doing 62 in a 40 mph zone. I was cited for violating 22350 (Basic Safe Speed Law). This was on a perfect summer day, on an 8 lane road with a center divider, my car in the first lane, one other car in the fourth lane and no other cars in the front or behind for at least 500 feet. This was also in an industrial area with no pedestrians around and the closest buildings are like 300 feet from the road (parking garages, high-rise office buildings, that sort of stuff with green belt between the buildings and the road). No one in sight. I honestly think I did not violate the letter and the spirit of 22350, so I submitted my TBWD, but I was found guilty. I just sent in my request for a Trial de Novo as well as a request for discovery to the DA's office.

    From what I've read so far I don't think the DA will actually satisfy my request and I doubt the judge would let me off the hook so easily, besides this is my very first time, I don't even know how I'm supposed to talk to the judge, other than saying "your Honor". Like, when can I try my chances with a request for dismissal? Do I raise my hand, before the cop starts talking? Should I write a letter to the court right after I receive the "it's not our responsibility" letter from the DA, and try to take care of this before the actual court date?

    Suppose the DA sends everything and the survey justifies the speed limit, do I even stand a chance of making a good defense and convincing the judge my speed was safe? My strategy is to ask the cop some questions and basically have him admit that there wasn't anything unsafe about my speed under the circumstances. Yeah, I know, dream on... one can hope :-)

    Should I just forget about it, save some time and some nerves and suck it up?
  • 11-20-2010, 03:36 PM
    That Guy
    Re: Going to Trial for a Speeding Ticket
    Quote:

    Quoting fmicle
    View Post
    My question involves traffic court in the State of: California

    So I got a speeding ticket a few months back. Allegedly I was doing 62 in a 40 mph zone. I was cited for violating 22350 (Basic Safe Speed Law). This was on a perfect summer day, on an 8 lane road with a center divider, my car in the first lane, one other car in the fourth lane and no other cars in the front or behind for at least 500 feet. This was also in an industrial area with no pedestrians around and the closest buildings are like 300 feet from the road (parking garages, high-rise office buildings, that sort of stuff with green belt between the buildings and the road). No one in sight. I honestly think I did not violate the letter and the spirit of 22350, so I submitted my TBWD, but I was found guilty. I just sent in my request for a Trial de Novo as well as a request for discovery to the DA's office.

    From what I've read so far I don't think the DA will actually satisfy my request and I doubt the judge would let me off the hook so easily, besides this is my very first time, I don't even know how I'm supposed to talk to the judge, other than saying "your Honor". Like, when can I try my chances with a request for dismissal? Do I raise my hand, before the cop starts talking? Should I write a letter to the court right after I receive the "it's not our responsibility" letter from the DA, and try to take care of this before the actual court date?

    Suppose the DA sends everything and the survey justifies the speed limit, do I even stand a chance of making a good defense and convincing the judge my speed was safe? My strategy is to ask the cop some questions and basically have him admit that there wasn't anything unsafe about my speed under the circumstances. Yeah, I know, dream on... one can hope :-)

    Should I just forget about it, save some time and some nerves and suck it up?

    Request a copy of the officer's declaration from the court... Contact CalTrans and/or City planning and request a copy of the E&T survey for the stretch of the roadway where you were cited... Post both documents here and we'll go from there...
  • 11-24-2010, 07:47 PM
    fmicle
    Re: Going to Trial for a Speeding Ticket
    Alright, I got the documents, it was much easier than I thought... first time I'm doing this... I edited the declaration and the survey to keep things anonymous. My impression is that the officer is very thorough and well prepared; his reputation with the Court is probably spotless, as well as his credibility. I was impressed myself at the level of detail in his paper-work.

    So here are the relevant parts of his declaration:
    http://bgwvfq.blu.livefilestore.com/..._SM.png?psid=1

    And here is the engineering and traffic survey:
    http://bgwvfq.blu.livefilestore.com/..._SM.png?psid=1

    I don't know how much weight my statement of "I guess I was trying to make the traffic light" carries, after all, aren't we all trying to get somewhere? I thought about it for a second when I opened my mouth and thought this wouldn't necessarily incriminate me. I'd like to know what you guys think, since you are knowledgeable on this subject.

    The only things I would argue in his declaration is that those buildings he mentions are far from the road, they don't have direct access to this Parkway, you'd have to take side streets to reach their respective parking lots, and I've never seen pedestrians walking where I was driving when my speed was measured. People cross the street way down, at the traffic light I was "trying to make", at least 300-500 yards from where my speed was measured. Oh, and there was only one other car at the moment, one Prius in the 4th lane and by the way, it was accelerating at the same pace with me; I was even thinking that the Prius must have a lot of torque from a stop because it was accelerating just as fast as myself.

    So, should I take my chances and go to court?
  • 11-24-2010, 08:36 PM
    That Guy
    Re: Going to Trial for a Speeding Ticket
    Questionable survey in that it seems to be incomplete. It does however mention the accident rate (see VC 627) as justification to reduce the speed limit from the 45mph speed (5mph increment from the 85th percentile) to the 40mph posted limit; one thing that seems to be missing is a comparison between the # of accidents and the statewide average.

    As for the officer's declaration, you've admitted that you were trying to make the light (and yes, that in and of itself is unsafe even though we all do it every so often) but the question that I would have for you (if I were the judge) is, were you in fact making a left turn at the light?
  • 11-24-2010, 11:15 PM
    fmicle
    Re: Going to Trial for a Speeding Ticket
    Actually the light turned red LONG before I got to the light, but yes, I did make a left turn at the light.

    This is how it happened from my point of view: the freeway exit has traffic lights for this particular Pkwy, so all other traffic on the Pkwy, if any, must stop before exiting cars turn onto the Pkwy. There were just 2 cars exiting the freeway and turning onto the Pkwy, a Prius and myself. Since there were no other cars around, as I said, at least not on my side of the road, I floored it a bit. Mind you I was driving a subcompact, no muscle car, no screeching tires or smoke or anything like that :-) But that's irrelevant.
    As soon as the road turned enough for me to see the traffic lights (still at least 600-800 ft away), I noticed that the left turn light was green, so I thought to myself "will I make it?", but it turned red long before I reached it, so I cruised to the light and stopped (very safely IMHO). I rolled down the window and turned the music down a little. At this point I noticed a police motorcycle in my rear-view mirror. So I got that funny feeling, like oh, did he get me? I don't remember looking at my speedometer after exiting the freeway, so I had absolutely no idea how fast I actually was. As I said, there was no other traffic to relate to. But the motorcycle didn't have any of the flashing lights on. So I thought "maybe he's not after me". After all, I was just standing at the light and he was right behind me. But as soon as the light turned green, he turned on the lights, so I pulled over into the first parking lot, where I was actually going to pick up my lunch...

    While he was writing the ticket I tried to crack a joke, so I said "can I blame it on stuck accelerator pedal, after all it's a Toyota". He replied without laughing or smiling "you can try".

    When he handed me the ticket he said to me "I recommend you fight this in court; you may win, if I'm late". Then he gave the standard "you'll get the notice in the mail in a few weeks".

    He was still there when I got out of the restaurant with my lunch in hand and I nodded and waved a "good bye"... That's about it.

    I looked at his copy of the citation when I got the declaration today and read his notes (he wrote that I said "I guess I was trying to make the light") and at the bottom he wrote "Very polite throughout contact" :-)

    I doubt he'll be late for trial though, considering how good his paper-work was... The trial date is set for December 27th...

    The survey had another page or two, which summarizes the data and has more verbiage, but I didn't post it here.
  • 11-24-2010, 11:28 PM
    That Guy
    Re: Going to Trial for a Speeding Ticket
    Quote:

    Quoting fmicle
    View Post
    The survey had another page or two, which summarizes the data and has more verbiage, but I didn't post it here.

    Your choice... It might help establish whether you would have a valid speed trap argument or not...

    As for his declaration, I can only assume that he also submitted copies of his P.O.S.T. training certificates... Correct? (See VC 40802(c)
  • 11-25-2010, 12:28 AM
    fmicle
    Re: Going to Trial for a Speeding Ticket
    Yes, he had 11 pages attached to his declaration form. Certificates, calibration records and what not. I actually realized I didn't copy all the pages of the survey, because I thought there wasn't much more information on the first page, just a summary of the data, establishing that 85% was 43.56, so the speed limit was set to 40.

    My strategy was to try to show that my speed was safe under the circumstances, not to contest the ETS itself, since I can't find anything wrong with it (but then, what do I know?). But the way he describes the road "with the brush in the middle which reduces visibility, therefore justifying the speed limit", and the image of streets teeming with people around there... I don't know if I can convince a judge that nobody ever walks on the freeway overpass or along the Pkwy and there was nothing inherently unsafe about my speed...
  • 11-29-2010, 03:31 PM
    HonkingAntelope
    Re: Going to Trial for a Speeding Ticket
    The survey definitely looks fishy to me. The rules were changed a few years ago so that the speed limit must be set to the nearest 5mph increment, NOT the lowest of the two as used to be the case. In this case, the correct speed limit would be 45mph, not 40mph unless some detailed justification was presented in the speed survey by the conducting traffic engineer. Accident rates are a standard component of a traffic survey and merely including them doesn't justify dropping down the speed limit. OP, Can you post the other two pages of the speed survey?
  • 11-29-2010, 03:39 PM
    davidmcbeth3
    Re: Going to Trial for a Speeding Ticket
    He aimed his LIDAR at you but does not state he was trained or that the unit was calibrated..2 big issues and his statement indicates many obstructions in his viewpoint.
  • 12-26-2010, 06:41 PM
    fmicle
    Re: Going to Trial for a Speeding Ticket
    Sorry, I didn'y copy the entire survey, I didn't think it would be questionable...

    Anyway, tomorrow morning is my court date. I wanted to ask, if anyone happens to read this and reply before then, can I ask the judge to dismiss my case? And if so, when do I do it and what do I say? Do I raise my hand or something? I have no idea about procedure.

    The grounds for dismissal would be the fact that the DA completely ignored my request for discovery. I sent it on Nov 19th, so theoretically they should have had plenty of time to handle it. I didn't receive anything back from them. I have the tracking number output from the USPS website, which shows that my letter was received on time (as I sent it certified).

    Any thoughts?
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