Trespassing at a School

My question involves criminal law for the state of: Georgia (Fulton County)

My girlfriend goes to the public school in the area, and I go to a smaller private school in the area. Today, I had a free period and I took her lunch. After pulling up in front of the school and waiting on her to walk out, I heard a tap at the windshield. It was the school cop, telling me to roll down my window. He asked me what I was doing there. I told him I was bringing my girlfriend lunch. He also asked me if I knew that I was traveling at "a high rate of speed" through the parking lot. I told him that I thought I was only going about 12, 15 at the max. He then asked me for my name. When I asked him why he wants to know my name, he told me to step out of the car. Outside of the car, the policeman was very disrespectful to me (even 17 year olds deserve a little respect). When he started reading from my drivers license, he shook his head at my address (I live on a well-known affluent street). In general, he was just an ass. He sent his little slave cop to get something for him and he came back with a criminal trespassing warning and a citation booklet. The citation was for parking in a fire lane, which 5 other people were doing at the time. The criminal trespassing warning tells me I can never step foot on that campus again.

1. The parking ticket doesnt really bother me. I was parked in a fire lane and its only $50... whatever. A side note though: Neither cop said anything about fire lane... all they talked about was my "high rate of speed". And then they slap me with this ticket that has nothing to do with speed.
2. The trespassing is what bothers me. I read the Georgia law for criminal trespassing. It says it would have been trespassing if I had entered the property with a desire to break a law. I did not... I only wanted to drop off a burrito. The law also says that if I go back on the campus, it will be trespassing because I have written disallowment to go on the property. I can get a warning for criminal trespassing when I wasn't trespassing? And that warning means I can be arrested for trespassing even when I don't trespass? I know it's just a warning but I would like to be able to take my girlfriend lunch every now and then.

have you actually been cited for trespassing or given notice that if you return, you will be trespassing?

It sounds like the latter. If so, all they did was tell you "do not come back or you will be trespassing".

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t I would like to be able to take my girlfriend lunch every now and then

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then you probably shouldn't hvae been speeding and parking in a fire lane and based on your statements here, you were probably quite rude to the cop yourself.

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He sent his little slave cop

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I suspect that type of attitude didn't help you at all.

You are not a student there.

Why would you think you have an inherent right to be there? In other words, other than "bringing my girlfriend lunch" while parked in a fire lane, why do you think you belonged there... well, other than you obviously believe that you have a right to do as you please?

Oh, and how did your girlfriend know you were outside? Cell phone, maybe? That cell phone that was supposed to be off during school hours?

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Quoting jk

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have you actually been cited for trespassing or given notice that if you return, you will be trespassing?

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I was just given notice that if i return, i will be trespassing. Which is what bothers me. By law, I was not criminally trespassing. If I go onto the school grounds again, it would not be trespassing without that warning. So that warning that I was given seems wrong... if not unconstitutional because it gives the cop a right to tell anyone that he doesnt like that they arent allowed on his school.

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Quoting cyjeff

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You are not a student there.

Why would you think you have an inherent right to be there? In other words, other than "bringing my girlfriend lunch" while parked in a fire lane, why do you think you belonged there... well, other than you obviously believe that you have a right to do as you please?

Oh, and how did your girlfriend know you were outside? Cell phone, maybe? That cell phone that was supposed to be off during school hours?

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1. This is irrelevant but I used to be a student there and had to leave because of the amount of government involved in the public school system... its ridiculous.
2. There were 5 other people parked in the fire lane... I know a cop has a right to give a ticket to whoever he wants but that was unfair.
3. She could see my car from the door and she knew that I was going to be there... I never texted or called her while she was in school.

You were not criminally trespassing but if you go back you will be. They're free to restrict you from the campus. It doesn't matter that in your mind "you weren't doing anything." It's not the least bit unconstitutional. The cop indeed HAS THAT RIGHT.

The fact that the school is owned and operated by the government does not give every miscreant the right to wander through there. The school is quite within the rights to exclude people.

You're not allowed to PARK in the fire lane (which includes sitting in your car and waiting for your girlfriend). Unless you're going to argue that they discriminated against you because you are part of a specific minority class that is protected by law, the fact that you were ticketed for your illegal activity and others aren't isn't going to fly at all in court.

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Quoting WoahWoahWoah

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I was just given notice that if i return, i will be trespassing. Which is what bothers me. By law, I was not criminally trespassing. If I go onto the school grounds again, it would not be trespassing without that warning. So that warning that I was given seems wrong... if not unconstitutional because it gives the cop a right to tell anyone that he doesnt like that they arent allowed on his school.

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Exactly what part of the Constitution gives you the right to go where ever you want?

Doesn't your private school have any classes in civics or social studies?

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1. This is irrelevant but I used to be a student there and had to leave because of the amount of government involved in the public school system... its ridiculous.

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Yeah, that's crap.

This translates to "the school was going to be mean to me with all it's rules so I asked Daddy to let me go to private school..."

Kid, you must really think this is our first day.

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2. There were 5 other people parked in the fire lane... I know a cop has a right to give a ticket to whoever he wants but that was unfair.

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Life isn't fair.

Maybe no one else was 17 and loitering. Why yes, that would be age discrimination. No, you can't do a darn thing about it.

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3. She could see my car from the door and she knew that I was going to be there... I never texted or called her while she was in school.

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Uh huh.

Must be a small school where every student can see the front door.

Kid, you have to grow up on this. No one cares about your car or your school. You were not a student loitering on school grounds during school hours with absolutely no valid reason to be there.

No, "bringing your girlfriend lunch" is not a valid reason.

Maybe you believe that you have the right to violate school rules about visitors due to some nebulous Constitutional right. You would be wrong.

After all, you wouldn't want all those students from that public school wandering all over YOUR private school campus, now would you? Why would you think it wouldn't be the same in reverse?

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Quoting cyjeff

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Exactly what part of the Constitution gives you the right to go where ever you want?

Doesn't your private school have any classes in civics or social studies?

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Yup. I'm in AP Government and I have the highest grade in the school.

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Quoting cyjeff

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Must be a small school where every student can see the front door.

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No, but she could because she was STANDING IN FRONT OF IT... jackass.

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Quoting cyjeff

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After all, you wouldn't want all those students from that public school wandering all over YOUR private school campus, now would you? Why would you think it wouldn't be the same in reverse?

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People from that public school bring lunch to kids at my school without anyone asking them questions. I wouldn't want ALL of those students wandering around my campus, but one or two at a time doesn't bother me at all... and i don't see why it would bother them that I was the only student from my school on their school doing nothing wrong.


I've figured out that this is just another issue of a cop being unfair... it happens everyday. It shouldn't and there should be laws against cops being able to do as they please. But it is what it is and I realize I can't do anything about it. But cyjeff, you didn't have to be such a ****ing asshole. I was only trying to figure out if there was anyway I could screw over this cop who thought his badge was a crown.

The trespass warning was to put you on official notice that, as you're not a student, you're not welcome on the school grounds during school hours.

There's no consequence to the warning, per se; the issue is that if you ignore the warning you can be charged with trespass.

If you believe you were issued the warning because you were a petulant twerp, while a respectful teenager might not have been warned, I suppose it's possible. But you made your choice.

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Quoting WoahWoahWoah

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Yup. I'm in AP Government and I have the highest grade in the school.

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Then your teacher is a moron. Still waiting for that part of the Constitution that gives you the right to go where ever you want. Look really hard.

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No, but she could because she was STANDING IN FRONT OF IT... jackass.

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Where, EXACTLY, did you say that? Why, no where. I wasn't there and can only go by what you tell us. Just because you can't communicate yourself effectively in a written manner doesn't mean we have to be psychic.

By the way, language like that to your elders is EXACTLY why you are going to be violated with trespassing. Every time you speak, I side more and more with the school's resource officer.

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People from that public school bring lunch to kids at my school without anyone asking them questions. I wouldn't want ALL of those students wandering around my campus, but one or two at a time doesn't bother me at all

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And, there ya go. The school's resource officer didn't mind everyone, but just you. I guess it is okay to be unfair when YOU are the one that chooses the have's and have not's?

Welcome to reality.

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... and i don't see why it would bother them that I was the only student from my school on their school doing nothing wrong.

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Because schools have specific rules around who can and cannot be present during school hours. Has to do with those concepts called "security" and "learning". You were apparently getting in the way of one or both.

I am guessing it had to do with your attitude.

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I've figured out that this is just another issue of a cop being unfair... it happens everyday.

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Or, maybe, just to you.

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It shouldn't and there should be laws against cops being able to do as they please.

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There are. This doesn't come close.

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But it is what it is and I realize I can't do anything about it. But cyjeff, you didn't have to be such a ****ing asshole.

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Put another in the "pro" column for the resource officer.

I am guessing you don't get told "no" a lot, do ya? You seem to have a problem with it. Seek help.

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I was only trying to figure out if there was anyway I could screw over this cop who thought his badge was a crown.

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Nope, but look at the bright side.

This cop found out a way to screw over a little arrogant jerk that thought his car bought him a ticket to go where ever and when ever he wanted.

Feel satisfied that the good guys won one.

One more point... you do realize that you can now be arrested for trespassing if you ever again enter school grounds or any school function, right?

Have you broken the news to your girlfriend that you won't be able to take her to prom yet?

Look, after stuff like Columbine, schools have tighter restrictions on who belongs on campus and who does not.

As you are NOT a student there CURRENTLY (doesn't matter that you were in the past), they have every right to tell you to stay off the property.

You also do not have the right to park in a fire lane. Very simple. The cop did his job in giving you that ticket. And if your attitude here indicates anything, you probably had an attitude with the cop.

When all this was going on, where was your girlfriend?

Let's not forget, too, that the OP had left this school because they had too many rules.

Therefore, a known disciplinary problem returns to school, parks out front in a fire lane and demands that the school resource officer allow him to remain because he was bringing his girlfriend a burrito.

Sounds like someone really wanted to rub the "you can't touch me because I don't go to school here anymore" situation in the school's face and failed miserably.

I still want to know where the Girlfriend was. Did she remain inside the doors, or did she come up stating "That's my boyfriend and he's bringing me lunch...."

Another thing....Liability Issues. How does that officer know there is not a weapon or drugs in the lunch bag? If the school has security and has to run her through again....that burrito is gonna be cold by the time she gets to eat.

It actually goes one step further.

Here in Georgia, any car that goes onto school property is subject to search. Wonder what they would have found?

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Quoting cyjeff

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It actually goes one step further.

Here in Georgia, any car that goes onto school property is subject to search. Wonder what they would have found?

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I find that hard to believe, you sure? I am not saying it does not happen, per se, more of a case citation would be helpful.

The 4th AM is still alive in GA.

Whoa whoa, I also question the trespass order.

To ban a person totally from public property, school or not is constitutionally questionable.

You, as an example, have a right to pick up your girlfriend on the lot!

If they charged you with trespassing the next time you enter, assuming you do, for a legitimate reason that is, I would challenge it.

School security, unless it was an actual police officer acting under color of law, do not know what they are talking about sometimes.

There was a case some years ago from the United States Supreme Court about NON residents of public housing "hanging around".

The SC ruled the state can restrict such activity to a certain degree, even though it is public property.

I understand fully what the others are saying about school security, etc., but as a definite legal answer, that is not known until you are charged and plead not guilty.

Unless you plan to make it a "test case" to challenge the Constitutionality OR seek a Declaratory Judgment in Court to possibly vacate the written warning, I would not legally advise entering the school perimiter.

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Quoting BOR

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I find that hard to believe, you sure? I am not saying it does not happen, per se, more of a case citation would be helpful.

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From the student handbook... go to page 1 for info about visitors and 30 about cars on the campus lot.

http://www.ahsraiders.com/informatio...book-2010-2011

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The 4th AM is still alive in GA.

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Yes, but when you drive your car on campus, you waive that right. If you don't want to permit your car to be searched, don't bring it on campus.

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Whoa whoa, I also question the trespass order.

To ban a person totally from public property, school or not is constitutionally questionable.

You, as an example, have a right to pick up your girlfriend on the lot!

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Please give the basis for the right of a stranger to cruise onto school property and pick up a student.

BOR, usually you do more research than this and I am usually learning from you. Here, however, you are wrong.

Schools have the absolute right to govern visitors on campus. Especially when those visitors are former disciplinary problems that are currently parking illegally during school hours.

He was IN A FIRE LANE DURING SCHOOL HOURS.

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If they charged you with trespassing the next time you enter, assuming you do, for a legitimate reason that is, I would challenge it.

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On what grounds? When did the school lose the right to grant access to the campus?

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School security, unless it was an actual police officer acting under color of law, do not know what they are talking about sometimes.

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in Georgia, school resource officers have full arrest authority.

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There was a case some years ago from the United States Supreme Court about NON residents of public housing "hanging around".

The SC ruled the state can restrict such activity to a certain degree, even though it is public property.

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Schools have a completely different set of rules due to the care of children.

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I understand fully what the others are saying about school security, etc., but as a definite legal answer, that is not known until you are charged and plead not guilty.

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My wife is a school teacher in another county. I assure you that this is allowed and upheld by local court.

Strangers are NOT allowed to show up and meander about campus. Every stranger can and should be legally challenged as to their business and the reason for their visit.

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Unless you plan to make it a "test case" to challenge the Constitutionality OR seek a Declaratory Judgment in Court to possibly vacate the written warning, I would not legally advise entering the school perimiter.

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I would think the school has made our friend and his attitude unwelcome. We also don't know what he said... if, for example, he threatened the resource officer or his "slave", then I would think that he was deemed a danger.

Maybe I missed it but I saw nothing that even suggested that all vehicles are subject to search. There is section that states student vehicles are subject to search under certain situations and if the student refuses, their parking privileges are subject to revocation. That is far from forced mandatory searches of all vehicles entering the campus.

and of course, the OP is not a student at the school so any such rule applicable to students is not applicable to visitors, especially without notice.

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Quoting cyjeff

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From the student handbook... go to page 1 for info about visitors and 30 about cars on the campus lot.

http://www.ahsraiders.com/informatio...book-2010-2011

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Could not find it! The only reference I could find was about searching a students vehicle if Reasonable suspicion exists, (per TLO; my words).

Can you copy and paste it?

Even if it were so, I aksed for a case citation, not handbook cite. I understand about searches based on entry with prior notice, and per USSC guidelines.

I still want to see some case law.

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Yes, but when you drive your car on campus, you waive that right. If you don't want to permit your car to be searched, don't bring it on campus.

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Is this inclusive of a public university/college or are you just citing K-12 school grounds.

I have never seen where ALL cars entering University property are subject to search.

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Please give the basis for the right of a stranger to cruise onto school property and pick up a student.

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The 1st and 4th AM's.

BLOOD relation has never been a prerequisite to give a student a ride home and enter campus to do so.

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BOR, usually you do more research than this and I am usually learning from you. Here, however, you are wrong.

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Then give me a CASE citation.

Here by the way is that case I mentioned for some legal insight.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...0&invol=02-371

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Schools have the absolute right to govern visitors on campus. Especially when those visitors are former disciplinary problems that are currently parking illegally during school hours.

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Yes they have a right to screen visitors, BUT are still constrained by the Constitution. I do agree though that a former troublemaker, if we call it that, is subject to more stringent methods of eviction.

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He was IN A FIRE LANE DURING SCHOOL HOURS.

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I understand that, but that "in and of itself constitutionally" is not a bar to enter.

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My wife is a school teacher in another county. I assure you that this is allowed and upheld by local court.

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I am looking for a case to read, that's all. I still want a case about vehicle searches if you have one.

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Strangers are NOT allowed to show up and meander about campus. Every stranger can and should be legally challenged as to their business and the reason for their visit.

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I understand this Constitutionaly, elementary and secondary schools are scrutinized more than a College Campus.

Fine... let's walk away from the search then... there were several cases last year where cars were reviewed during football games, but I don't have the time today to find them.

How do the first and fourth amendment allow loitering on campus by non students? BOR, when I visit my WIFE, I have to go through the office and obtain a visitor's pass. Visiting students and/or disrupting the learning environment is NOT a protected activity.

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Quoting cyjeff

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Here in Georgia,

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Hahaha

And then you reference one badly related source?

How many schools are there in Georgia?

F-

There is obviously some difference between the car parking lot and the building. When you visit your WIFE are you going inside the building?

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Quoting jklo

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Hahaha

And then you reference one badly related source?

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How, exactly, is a student handbook from one of the public high schools in the same county as the school in question a badly related source. It was as close as I could get without knowing the exact school.

Tell your friend that if he is going to get his friends to sign in to build up his case that he should pick the smart ones.

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How many schools are there in Georgia?

F-

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Several... but in Fulton County (where the OP's question comes from) there are 16 high schools, 19 middle and 59 elementary. I don't know why that is significant to the conversation, however. The handbook I quoted was from Alpharetta High School... the first on the list alphabetically.

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There is obviously some difference between the car parking lot and the building. When you visit your WIFE are you going inside the building?

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Why is there a difference between the parking lot and the building. The same rules apply to both. The same staff has effective control over both.

Your point makes no sense unless you are saying that a roof changes whom has authority over a piece of land.

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Quoting cyjeff

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How, exactly, is a student handbook from one of the public high schools in the same county as the school in question a badly related source. It was as close as I could get without knowing the exact school.

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It was really more the presentation of there being one ring to rule all of Georgia and that you had the one true source and there could be no possible alternative. lol

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I don't know why that is significant to the conversation, however.

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Mostly you just can't read between the lines.

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Why is there a difference between the parking lot and the building. The same rules apply to both. The same staff has effective control over both.

Your point makes no sense unless you are saying that a roof changes whom has authority over a piece of land.

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You didn't answer the question - when you visit your WIFE are you going inside the building? Do you need to obtain a visitor's pass to enter the parking lot? Or just the building?

Here are the appropriate statutes for your perusal....

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16-11-127.1
(a) As used in this Code section, the term:

(1) 'School safety zone' means in, on, or within 1,000 feet of any real property owned by or leased to any public or private elementary school, secondary school, or school board and used for elementary or secondary education and in, on, or within 1,000 feet of the campus of any public or private technical school, vocational school, college, university, or institution of postsecondary education.

20-2-1180 G
*** CODE SECTION ***
20-2-1180.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to remain upon the premises or within the school safety zone as defined in paragraph (1) of subsection (a) of Code Section 16-11-127.1 of any public or private school in this state or to remain upon such premises or within such school safety zone when that person does not have a legitimate cause or need to be present thereon. Each principal or designee of each public or private school in this state shall have the authority to exercise such control over the buildings and grounds upon which a school is located so as to prohibit any person who does not have a legitimate need or cause to be present thereon from loitering upon such premises. Each principal or designee of each public or private school in this state shall notify the appropriate law enforcement agency to prohibit any person who does not have a legitimate need or cause to be present therein from loitering within the school safety zone.

(b) Any person who shall not have any legitimate cause or need to be present upon the premises or within the school safety zone of any public or private school in this state who shall willfully fail to remove himself or herself from such premises after the principal or designee of such school shall request him or her to do so shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature.

(c) Upon entering any elementary or secondary school building between the official starting time and the official dismissal time, any person who is not a student at such school, an employee of the school or school system, a school board member, an approved volunteer following the established guidelines of the school, or a person who has been invited to or otherwise authorized to be at the school by a principal, teacher, counselor, or other authorized employee of the school shall check in at the designated location as stated on posted signs and provide a reason for his or her presence at the school. Failure to check in at the designated location as provided in this subsection shall be prima-facie evidence that such person is in violation of subsection (b) of this Code section. This subsection shall not apply to law enforcement officers, firefighters, emergency medical technicians or paramedics, or any public safety or emergency management officials in the performance of an emergency call or to other persons making authorized deliveries to the school. This subsection shall not apply to any person entering a school which serves as an official polling place for the purpose of voting on election day or attending or participating in an academic or athletic event while remaining in the authorized area or a parent, grandparent, or guardian listed on a child´s pick-up list who fails to sign-in while delivering school supplies, food, clothing, or other legitimate business and who has not previously been sanctioned by school officials for disrupting a school.

(d) A school administrator or his or her designee may ask any visitor to explain his or her presence in the school building at any time when the school is in official session.

(e) If the school posts signs on entrances to the school requiring visitors to check in at the designated location, such signs shall be deemed prima-facie evidence that persons entering the school were on notice of the requirements of this Code section.

(f) Nothing in this Code section shall be construed to prohibit school administrators from prohibiting the admission of any person who has violated school policy or state law.
20-2-1181 G
*** CODE SECTION ***
20-2-1181.
It shall be unlawful for any person to disrupt or interfere with the operation of any public school, public school bus, or public school bus stop as designated by local school boards of education. Any person violating this Code section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature.

20-2-1182.
Any parent, guardian, or person other than a student at the public school in question who has been advised that minor children are present and who continues to upbraid, insult, or abuse any public school teacher, public school administrator, or public school bus driver in the presence and hearing of a pupil while on the premises of any public school or public school bus may be ordered by any of the above-designated school personnel to leave the school premises or school bus, and upon failure to do so such person shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine not to exceed $500.00.

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Notice that the law includes the grounds and not just the buildings.

The warning the OP received was a gift. He could have been arrested.

Until the kid was warned and failed to leave, there is not going to be a chance of arrest. In the future, he has already had the warning so he can be arrested simply due to stepping foot on the school property.

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Quoting cyjeff

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Therefore, a known disciplinary problem returns to school

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I was not a problem at that school. I did not have any disciplinary issues when I attended that school.

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Quoting PandorasBox

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I still want to know where the Girlfriend was. Did she remain inside the doors, or did she come up stating "That's my boyfriend and he's bringing me lunch...."

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She was standing next to me the whole time this was going on.

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Quoting cyjeff

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Here in Georgia, any car that goes onto school property is subject to search. Wonder what they would have found?

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They would have found a bookbag, a laptop, a bag from dunkin donuts with a bagel in it, football shoulder pads, football helmet, and a can of febreze.

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Quoting cyjeff

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He was IN A FIRE LANE DURING SCHOOL HOURS.

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They use that fire lane for carpool... just sayin.

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Quoting cyjeff

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Here are the appropriate statutes for your perusal....

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By what that says... I think that means I am breaking the law every single day of my life. My house is within 1000 feet of the school, which means I live in that "safety zone" that I'm not allowed in?

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Quoting cyjeff

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How do the first and fourth amendment allow loitering on campus by non students? BOR, when I visit my WIFE, I have to go through the office and obtain a visitor's pass. Visiting students and/or disrupting the learning environment is NOT a protected activity.

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As I said earlier, in mind from the case I linked, the 1st protects freedom of association and movement and the 4th offers protection from UNreasonable seizures.

From the case;

...........the RRHA enacted a policy authorizing the Richmond police to serve notice on any person lacking "a legitimate business or social purpose" for being on the premises and to arrest for trespassing any person who remains or returns after having been so notified..........

This is directly in Constitutional line with the law you posted on schools;


(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to remain upon the premises or within the school safety zone as defined in paragraph (1) of subsection (a) of Code Section 16-11-127.1 of any public or private school in this state or to remain upon such premises or within such school safety zone when that person does not have a legitimate cause or need to be present thereon.

As per my example, if a person is picking up a student, that is legitimate business. If they have a good reason to be there, the school can not as a constitutional matter ban them unless thier behavior, lingering, etc., warrants it.

I never said they could not be asked to leave if they are loitering.

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Quoting jk

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Until the kid was warned and failed to leave, there is not going to be a chance of arrest. In the future, he has already had the warning so he can be arrested simply due to stepping foot on the school property.

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Actually, the moment he was asked his business and his identification and refused, he was in violation of 20-2-1180 (d).

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Quoting cyjeff

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Actually, the moment he was asked his business and his identification and refused, he was in violation of 20-2-1180 (d).

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I wasnt in violation actually. I explained my presence... the law doesnt say anything about identification.

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Quoting WoahWoahWoah

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I wasnt in violation actually. I explained my presence... the law doesnt say anything about identification.

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The law I posted doesn't.

However, you were parked illegally. The resource offer can certainly ask you for your id as part of the ticketing process.

You will find that treating people that have the authority to write you tickets with respect tends to prevent some of those tickets being written.

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Quoting cyjeff

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Notice that the law includes the grounds and not just the buildings.

The warning the OP received was a gift. He could have been arrested.

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And you'll notice that the law also differentiates between the grounds and the buildings at points.

You're the one who raised the issue of entering the buildings (which is separate to parking outside the school). You're the one who acted all indignant about having to obtain a visitor's pass to see your WIFE. And you still didn't answer the question.