Negligent Driving Second Degree in Washington

Hello
received a ticket for Negligent Driving 2nd Degree this past weekend.
THe office said he clocked me first at 86mph then 90mph at the bottom of the hill, and wrote 90mph on the ticket. This was in a 70mph zone.
While I don't remember exactly how fast I was going, I'm quite sure I was not going 90mph. Further, definetly not driving negligently as I was only drving in a straight line no swerving or anything of that nature.
If he gave me a ticket for speeding only then so be it but a $550 ticket for negligent driving I feel is unfair.

I want to contest this, however, have a few questions

1)Is it best to pay an attorney to represent me in court? I am not very profecient with legal jargon.

2)I am contesting the fact the officer said I was driving negligently. However, if the court rules in my favour, would they still charge me for speeding?

3) What are the things I will need to look out for to challenge this ticket? any suggestions on missed processes, wrong procedures that would have this case dismissed?

thankyou

sorry guys, I will repost in another forum as 2nd deg. Neg Driving is not a criminal offence

RCW 46.61.525
Negligent driving — Second degree.


(1)(a) A person is guilty of negligent driving in the second degree if, under circumstances not constituting negligent driving in the first degree, he or she operates a motor vehicle in a manner that is both negligent and endangers or is likely to endanger any person or property.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to negligent driving in the second degree that must be proved by the defendant by a preponderance of the evidence, that the driver was operating the motor vehicle on private property with the consent of the owner in a manner consistent with the owner's consent.

(c) Negligent driving in the second degree is a traffic infraction and is subject to a penalty of two hundred fifty dollars.

(2) For the purposes of this section, "negligent" means the failure to exercise ordinary care, and is the doing of some act that a reasonably careful person would not do under the same or similar circumstances or the failure to do something that a reasonably careful person would do under the same or similar circumstances.

(3) Any act prohibited by this section that also constitutes a crime under any other law of this state may be the basis of prosecution under such other law notwithstanding that it may also be the basis for prosecution under this section.

[1997 c 66 § 5; 1996 c 307 § 1; 1979 ex.s. c 136 § 86; 1967 c 32 § 69; 1961 c 12 § 46.56.030. Prior: 1939 c 154 § 1; RRS § 6360-118 1/2. Formerly RCW 46.56.030.]

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You can ask for discovery (I dont know if you can defer this one??) .. and you have the right to conduct an investigation in WA (see discovery rules). You do not have the right to depose the cop.

But you can interrogate (and video tape?) the cop in an investigation .. and if they do not cooperate, I think a motion to dismiss would be in order.

Nice to see its an affirmative defense ... I would motion to dismiss just on this ground .. that the ticket itself is proof of a violation .. not exactly innocent until proven guilty is it?

Also, the law is vague. Motion to dismiss on these grounds.

You can see an attny if you do not feel up to battling it out in "court".

Begin with discovery ... or seeing an attny

Quote:

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Quoting apex188

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1)Is it best to pay an attorney to represent me in court? I am not very profecient with legal jargon.

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That depends. Fighting this won't be much different from fighting a speeding ticket. But, an attorney would charge somewhere near $500 for the case.

Quote:

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Quoting RCW 46.61.525

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(1)(a) A person is guilty of negligent driving in the second degree if, under circumstances not constituting negligent driving in the first degree, he or she operates a motor vehicle in a manner that is both negligent and endangers or is likely to endanger any person or property.

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If the officer fails to prove that you were speeding, the case should be dismissed. As, what are speed limits for?

Quote:

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Quoting apex188

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2)I am contesting the fact the officer said I was driving negligently. However, if the court rules in my favour, would they still charge me for speeding?

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If the court rules in your favor, no. Unless you contest on the wrong basis. In law, you fight from the ground up. That is, how did the cop determine you were driving negligently? By your speed. If you fight the case on the speeding aspect, then you have a chance. If you fight the case on what you're saying: "I was driving in a straight line," you might as well just pay the fine, because you will be convicted.

Quote:

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Quoting apex188

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3) What are the things I will need to look out for to challenge this ticket? any suggestions on missed processes, wrong procedures that would have this case dismissed?

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The answer to that question lies in this thread.

When you're done with that thread, read this one.

If you're still confused, come back and ask questions. Be sure to read the threads thoroughly.

Brendan

Thanks for the response.
The office only wrote "Neg Driving 2nd", then "PL1352/1429F"
any idea what this would mean?

I understand that I should fight it from the ground up, however, I'm still not sure why he gave me a negligent driving ticket instead of just speeding. If I was going over 80mph, is that considered negligent?
I was thinking of fighting it on this basis that speeding does not equal to negligence. Or is this a very weak argument?

Is it true that I can contest it first then once I receive the discovery request then have the option for mitigation if I choose?

your comments are much appreciated.

Arguing speed does not equal negligence is a legal argument - you could argue this prior to trial with a motion to dismiss. Search out case law to see if any support is shown for the argument - I cannot find any case law that says that speeding by itself is grounds for the charge. You should check into this further -- I checked back only 10 yrs.

You would be wrong in your defense that "speeding is not negligent." Speeding is negligence. That's why there are speeding laws. Your argument isn't even an argument at all. An officer could write you a neg driving 2 ticket for being 2 mph above the speed limit. You have to read the statute to understand what you're charged with.

If the officer didn't write the RCW, then you can tell the court that you haven't been properly charged and can most likely get the ticket dismissed.

Your last question is confusing, to say the least. Yes, you can choose to contest the ticket and then change your hearing, but you can not argue the case, then mitigate it after words.

Brendan

Thanks Brendan.
yes he did write on the Statute code/ RCW 46.61.525.

I do undestand that negligence is pretty much anything breaking the law. Looks like whether an office gives a ticket for speeding or one for negligence is really up to the officers preference at the time. It would be his statement against mine which I know who the courts favour.
Looks like it would be pretty hard to argue unless I look for a procedural error etc.

I was just hoping to check off the box to contest it, request the discovery requests, then see what the officer's statement say. If it looks like I have no way out then I request a mitigation before the hearing.

Brendan is correct, speeding is negligent; but that by itself would not support the charge of negligent driving 2nd degree. Thats what I meant to say. Much much more has to be proven for the 2nd degree charge.

Cases involving 2nd degree include:

2001 Wash. App. LEXIS 1615,*
STATE OF WASHINGTON, Respondent, v. RORAY JANES LAROUCHE, Appellant.
No. 47326-3-I COURT OF APPEALS OF WASHINGTON, DIVISION ONE
2001 Wash. App. LEXIS 1615
July 23, 2001, Filed

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At the time Trooper Sterkel followed Mr. Walden off the freeway and observed the Camaro park behind the sandpile, the trooper had probable cause to arrest Mr. Walden for negligent driving. RCW 10.31.100; RCW 46.61.525; State v. Nelson, 81 Wn. App. 249, 251-52, 914 P.2d 97 (1996). The purpose of the negligent driving statutes is to allow police to arrest and remove from public streets those persons engaged in dangerous conduct. Id. at 252. An arrest under the negligent driving statue is discretionary. 81 Wn. App. at 251-252.
******* from below:
2000 Wash. App. LEXIS 753,*

KATHLEEN BARBARA RICHESON, Individually and on Behalf of the Estate of James Robert Richeson, Deceased, GREGORY GLEN RICHESON, TRENA RICHESON RICHARDSON, and JEFFREY SCOTT RICHESON, Appellants, v. THE STATE OF WASHINGTON - STATE PATROL; KEN WADE and JANE DOE WADE, and the Marital Community Thereof; MEL STERKEL and JANE DOE STERKEL, and the Marital Community Thereof; and MATHEW SCOTT WALDEN, Respondents, A. OLIVAS and JANE DOE OLIVAS, and the Marital Community Thereof, Defendants.
No. 18399-8-III COURT OF APPEALS OF WASHINGTON, DIVISION THREE, PANEL SEVEN 2000 Wash. App. LEXIS 753 May 11, 2000, Filed



2000 Wash. App. LEXIS 282,STATE OF WASHINGTON, Respondent, v. BILLY I. MEYER, Petitioner. No. 23656-7-II COURT OF APPEALS OF WASHINGTON, DIVISION TWO 2000 Wash. App. LEXIS 282 February 18, 2000, Filed


None of the cases I see have just low level speeding being cause for 2nd degree neg. driving.

Of course, we dont know exactly what the officer says in his statement yet.

90 in a 70 is fast but by itself, I dont see it being negligent per se.

(1)(a) A person is guilty of negligent driving in the second degree if, under circumstances not constituting negligent driving in the first degree, he or she operates a motor vehicle in a manner that is both negligent and endangers or is likely to endanger any person or property

I would request discovery and post it up here, before you get an attorney......we may be able to help!

thanks Colemac65,
I would like to request disovery but first I'm trying to determine whether to contest or request mitigation on the ticket.
I was hoping I could contest it, get the discovery, and then change it to a mitigaton hearing only IF I feel I have no real chance of winning. However, I'm not sure this strategy is possible from the above comments.