My question involves criminal law for the state of: Indiana
My 15 year old son was accused of shoplifting in Walmart today while shopping with a friend. He didn't take anything but was considered guilty because he knew his friend did. Theft of less than $25.00 Trust me, we are addressing THAT issue.
What I am curious (and angry) about is that the gal in Loss Prevention was all cocky about how he really screwed up his life...She told him his name was going into a National Database which would kill his chances of ever getting a job..blah blah blah. I know she was laying it on thick trying to deter him from ever doing it again. The comment she made that sent up a red flag was when she told us we should talk to his counselor at school and tell her ourselves before she found out from them . My son is involved in sports and they have a Behavior Policy...something like this could initiate a reprimand or a ban from sports.
While I take this incident very seriously I do not think Walmart can/or should be informing the school of anything. Can they release/provide information to anyone other than their database or police/parents? (if applicable) Or can a school do unauthorized background checks on minor students? Just for the record...we are not taking the incident lightly but do believe that there is a difference in "need to know" & "right to tell".
My husband was there, no papers were signed, no finger prints, police, or photo's...no charges whatsoever. Simply a statement that there would be a fine 3X the value of the merchandise not to exceed $100.
Assuming Walmart does not have the right to disclose the incident being that there were no charges, hence no public record, IF they did reveal that information is there action I can take?
Rights of a Minor and Public Information
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07-30-2010, 07:38 PMJustGottaAskRights of a Minor and Public Information
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07-30-2010, 08:26 PMjkRe: Rights of a Minor and Public Informationshe was exaggerating some but not as much as you seem to believe. There is a national theft database. I do not know if Walmart reports to it. If the cocky gal told you about it, I suspect they do.Quote:
.blah blah blah. I know she was laying it on thick trying to deter him from ever doing it again.
While it won't ruin his life, it can make it more difficult.
Well, they can. Whether they should or not is a matter of opinion.Quote:
While I take this incident very seriously I do not think Walmart can/or should be informing the school of anything.
absolutely. They can put it on a poster and hang it on their front doors if they want to.Quote:
Can they release/provide information to anyone other than their database or police/parents?
You seem to be misunderstanding this entire situation. There is no need to know requirement for them to divulge information to anybody they want. They can tell absolutely anybody they want to tell.Quote:
..we are not taking the incident lightly but do believe that there is a difference in "need to know" & "right to tell".
there are no actions for you to take because there is no law requiring them to keep this secret from anybody.Quote:
Assuming Walmart does not have the right to disclose the incident being that there were no charges, hence no public record, IF they did reveal that information is there action I can take?
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07-31-2010, 07:32 AMcyjeffRe: Rights of a Minor and Public Information
Let's address this in two parts.
One, the National Theft Database doesn't accept juvenile information. I believe it should, but my belief and reality don't match.
Second, when your son decided to aid and albeit a thief, he made a life changing decision... even though you seem to think it shouldn't be one.
When he stole - and let's be very clear, that is what he did - he gave Walmart the right to post his name and picture on the front door with the word "THIEF" under it.
They can go through town with a bullhorn if they wish.
There is nothing you can do.... accept tell your son that his little action could have a whole host of repercussions.....
The fact that those repercussions are distasteful to you means nothing. -
07-31-2010, 07:55 AMaardvarcRe: Rights of a Minor and Public InformationUntil the statute of limitations runs out, criminal charges are STILL possible (in Indiana they've got 2 years for a misdemeanor) - so if at any moment they wanted to pursue charges, they still could. As bad as you think it is NOW, it could very quickly get a whole lot worse.Quote:
Quoting JustGottaAsk
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07-31-2010, 08:36 AMPandorasBoxRe: Rights of a Minor and Public Information
PS: Don't let your son go back to that WalMart. Even if he was not banned, they may have a picture of him in the LP office (and computers) and if he is recognized, he can expect to have a LP person following him.
He knew his friend was shoplifting. All he had to do was either state very loudly "Don't do that" or find an employee and report his friend. -
07-31-2010, 10:01 AMjkRe: Rights of a Minor and Public InformationPersonally, I'm not big on ratting out a friend but a whack upside the head and telling him not to do that would be within the list of things I would do to stop the other kid. If the other kid is insistent, it's time to find new friends cuz that one got dumped right then and there.Quote:
Quoting PandorasBox
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07-31-2010, 10:16 AMrb271Re: Rights of a Minor and Public Information
According the OP's account the son did nothing to aid his friend, which would imply he is not guilty of anything. If Walmart did publicly accuse the son of shoplifting, they would be open to a libel suit. It might be worth pointing this out to the threatening person at Walmart. Of course a libel suit would be of uncertain outcome, but Walmart would be foolish to risk an accusation for no material gain.
Also, regarding the civil penalty, the statutes I have read just refer liability of a person committing theft, but say nothing about aiding. Has an accomplice ever been successfully sued under a civil penalty law? -
07-31-2010, 10:27 AMPandorasBoxRe: Rights of a Minor and Public Information
I wouldn't consider that ratting someone out....
Thing is....in many cases, people also get charged because they are aware the other person was stealing, and can be seen as an Accessory or a Distraction, while the friend does the deed.
We've seen a lot of it on this site....someone charged because they were shopping, split up to shop, Person A shoplifted, Person B had no knowledge and was charged.
In this case: "He didn't take anything but was considered guilty because he knew his friend did" -
07-31-2010, 10:47 AMjkRe: Rights of a Minor and Public Informationit really depends on what walmart actually says and do you really think they would worry about 1 kid threatening to sue for libel? Hell, they basically flip off the government with regularity. and that is a kid that was at least knowingly with a thief. I don't see walmart having really anything to worry about here.Quote:
=rb271;443436]According the OP's account the son did nothing to aid his friend, which would imply he is not guilty of anything. If Walmart did publicly accuse the son of shoplifting, they would be open to a libel suit. It might be worth pointing this out to the threatening person at Walmart. Of course a libel suit would be of uncertain outcome, but Walmart would be foolish to risk an accusation for no material gain.
an accomplice? an accomplice shares guilt for the crime. If he is truly an accomplice and they don't want to pay, then just say no. If he was an accomplice, then maybe walmart will let the police in on the situation. Yes, it is legalized extortion. there is a real easy way to not be involved with it though: don't commit crimes.Quote:
Also, regarding the civil penalty, the statutes I have read just refer liability of a person committing theft, but say nothing about aiding. Has an accomplice ever been successfully sued under a civil penalty law?
telling on a person is ratting them out. I don't think I could do it but, as I said, I could definitely whop him upside of his head to get his attention.Quote:
Quoting PandorasBox
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/ratting+outQuote:
rat on someone
Inf. to report someone's bad behavior to someone in authority; to tattle on someone. J
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07-31-2010, 01:05 PMPandorasBoxRe: Rights of a Minor and Public Information
But in many cases....isn't the person perceived to be just as guilty?
When I shoplifted....had I had a friend with me, who knew I was doing it and did nothing to stop it....wouldn't they be an accessory?
Or how about the getaway driver in a bank robbery? "Nah, I knew He was gonna rob the bank, saying "don't" didn't stop him, so I just hit the gas when he jumped into the car with the bag of money....."